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PostSubject: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:00 am

Just want to let you guys know I've come to the conclusion that Internet forums are too inherently flawed to work beyond a superficial level, and have decided to spend my time doing other things. It isn't this board any more or less than any other, it's simply that the lack of accountability and the relative safety created by distance and anonymity allows those people who are bad actors in the real world virtually free reign in this one.

Top off that particular ugliness with the fact that you never truly know ANYTHING about the people you "meet"---all are just words in print---deception is the rule, and disappointment inevitable 95% of the time.

I'm sure there are people who feel the trade-off of quality for quantity is worth it, but I don't. Drama, intrigue, bullshit, manipulation, and back-and-forth appeals to me not at all. I realize that's the Stuff of Life for most of the world's population, but it only bores me and pisses me off in equal measure. And at 53 and counting down, I intend to spend as little time as possible in either state.

Finally, to stave off a possible flurry of questions via my site's email, this decision has nothing to do with business. That will continue. It's only the social interaction side of the Net I'm no longer interested in. It obviously works fine for entertainment, research, and conducting business.

That's it, then. Over and out.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:39 am

LatakiaLover wrote:
It obviously works fine for entertainment, research, and conducting business.

Stress relief. My number one use for the Internet. I read a lot and never play a part. I can sit back and laugh at people's posts and they never have to know or be insulted. I can learn so much. Now if I can just figure out a way to make money doing it.

Don't let the Internet stress you. Use it to get rid of stress. It can be like a one way mirror that you open and participate only as much as you wish, when you wish. Ignore the crap that gets flung about, it's just crap.

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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:55 am

Quite disturbing LL. I mean, isn't it true that we've made some real friendships here? True enough that in any public forum there will be those who strive to f**k with people, but when you weigh friendship and good conversation against some annoyances it seems worth the effort. Besides, you can always simply just ignore the idiots once you sniff them out. 95 percent? Nah! Mostly good folk here!

I consider you a friend and as such I'd strongly implore you to reconsider bowing out, don't let the dark side ruin it for you, you're among friends here

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Midnight Blues
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:06 am

LL, I'm sorry you feel that way. There is a great group of guy's here and if we all lived in the same town we'd have one hell of a club. I would have to think that in all your time spent on the Knox board that you made some true friends. I know I'm new to the group but consider each of you as friends you included....

Take care and hope to see you here again.
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:07 am

I read the thread like four times and still couldn't think of anything to say but that really sucks dude. If it was something that happened here that caused this I'm sorry we couldn't find a resolution.
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Vito

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PostSubject: Huh?   Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:53 am

I just checked the calendar...it's not April 1, so I assume this isn't a joke.

If you're reading this, LL, know this: The last time you left the board (not this one...the KCC BB), I really had to struggle to suppress the urge to send you a "Come on back, LL" message then...but I didn't send it. I'm not sending it now either. Whatever your reasons are, I respect them. Really. I know you well enough to know that you know what you're doing.

I've just gotta say that when you're not around, it leaves a huge hole that no one else can fill. That's the way it was before, and it won't be any different this time, here. For my part, you're a friend, but you're more than that; you're a gentleman, a scholar, and you're one of the reasons I think there's some hope for this wacked-out species.

Live long and prosper, amigo. We'll keep the home fires burning while you're away.

Vito jocolor
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PostSubject: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:48 am

Internet forums are too inherently flawed to work beyond a superficial level

Why stop there ? Add telephones, letters and CB/ham radio.

it's simply that the lack of accountability and the relative safety created by distance and anonymity allows those people who are bad actors in the real world virtually free reign in this one.

See above.

you never truly know ANYTHING about the people you "meet" . . . deception is the rule, and disappointment inevitable 95% of the time.

Out of the fifty or so people here, you actually did meet Tee Jay, Vito, Charles, GLP and CP. With luck, you could have added Puros Bran. All bummers ?

Drama, intrigue, bullshit, manipulation, and back-and-forth appeals to me not at all

Then stay the hell away from women.

But you know this.

As you know that your pulling out is disappointing a lot of people who -- whatever private thoughts you may entertain about them notwithstanding -- regard you as a friend.

And a good one.

If somewhat given to impulse.

Wishing you well either way

Yak

What a Face

edit : typo
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:58 am

Although I agree with much of what you say - most people are like a Slinky, their only real value is the smile they bring when pushed down a long staircase - it hardly comes as a revelation. The internet serves as a haven for socially inept jag-offs, posers and pathological liars because, unlike real life, face-to-face interaction, they don't have to worry about their stupidity resulting in someone knocking them on their ass - and that, to me, the biggest shortcoming of the internet...

Anyway, I hope this is one of your occasional "vent sessions" and you'll reconsider after a few days of fresh air. You bring much to this board; your wit, knowledge of pipes, tobaccos, etc., and even your (frequently cumbersome) personality are much-valued, and your absence would diminish the quality of the neighborhood.

My point is, I don't like many people, but I do like you and most of the people on this board, and I don't have enough friends that I can afford to lose one... even if that one is an egomaniac, self-absorbed, know-it-all (ha ha, just kidding... sort of). You should remember what you wrote about terrorists, which is essentially all these internet turds are, if you let them determine your course of action... they win! Don't let that happen, or CP will eat your cookies...


JT
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:02 pm

You don't get much more honest and straight forward than that! Laughing
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thomas james
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:00 pm

I simply don't know what to say.

It's a sad day.

George,,, damn you,,,,,,,you're wrong!

Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:33 pm

Well, what a bummer. I was just getting to know you.

Pease had been regaling me about your amazing skills and I was glad I was getting the chance to know you, if only here.

Being somebody who decided another board wasn't for me, I can respect your decision. I do wish you would reconsider, however.

I must be clueless; I have no idea what prompted this.

May the wind always be at your back.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:34 pm

I think that all of the above comments prove that there's more to this little hobby based community than what it simply appears to be on the surface.


LatakiaLover wrote:
you never truly know ANYTHING about the people you "meet"---all are just words in print---deception is the rule, and disappointment inevitable 95% of the time.

...It obviously works fine for entertainment.

Totally agree about the entertainment part, that's why I (and probably most everyone else) come here. Nothing wrong with seeking the company of like minded folk to get together and share some entertaining conversation.

I think you DO know about the people you meet. OK, maybe not like you know your sons and daughters and spouses, but I don't want to hang out with any of them anyhow Laughing I think I found out all I needed to know about a group of guys I met last may in Sonora, and about the guys I see at the pipe club. I know they're friends. I don't need to know the very essence of a dude, just whether or not he's a kind fellow and shares some similar interests. This ain't a fricken marriage, it''s a bunch of men who build a friendship through the sharing of a common interest. I also know that the sudden gathering here of the cast of characters on this board speaks volumes about it, more than I can put into words.

As a secondary note, if anyone is recieving any kind of unwanted, unsolicited and/or malicious conduct from any other member here, notify a mod or the admin and we'll do something about it. This thing is too special to let someone drag it down. This is supposed to be a place to relax, have a smoke, share some friendship. Nothing more, nothing less.

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chksbak
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:35 pm

LL your are a big part of the community here.
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Midnight Blues
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:40 pm

LL wrote this the first week of this new board:

...after one look around.

Knox's move/disruption/dissolution/conversion/whatever-it-is was the best thing to happen to this little gang of outspoken, independent, affection-filled thinkers since their accidental convergence in the first place. Cool Cool Cool

Pipes and tobacco are the common bond, but not the only one.

jhuggett, we owe you. I love you

I'm at a loss to figure out how that fine statement can one week latter lead to "Top off that particular ugliness with the fact that you never truly know ANYTHING about the people you "meet"---all are just words in print---deception is the rule, and disappointment inevitable 95% of the time."

Something has happened with George and we may never know, I just think its a real sad day when we loose the companionship of someone we all called "friend"...
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PostSubject: The essence of it...   Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:05 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
...I think you DO know about the people you meet. OK, maybe not like you know your sons and daughters and spouses, but I don't want to hang out with any of them anyhow Laughing I think I found out all I needed to know about a group of guys I met last may in Sonora, and about the guys I see at the pipe club. I know they're friends. I don't need to know the very essence of a dude, just whether or not he's a kind fellow and shares some similar interests. This ain't a fricken marriage, it''s a bunch of men who build a friendship through the sharing of a common interest. I also know that the sudden gathering here of the cast of characters on this board speaks volumes about it, more than I can put into words...
...but that puts it in into words well enough to let me know that you're referring to the inexpressible, PD—something that existed in abundance in Sonora, but is in no way limited to that event or those participants. It's the thing that brought this board in coalescence in the relative twinkling of an eye, and the very thing that forms a strange attractor that brings people together everywhere. There's no need to put a name on it. Everybody knows it when they see it.

LL will be fine y'all. He knows we're here, and he knows who we are. I don't know what set him off, but I know how he feels. I've been there. Whether it's temporary misanthropy or temporary insanity, it's part of the territory where you find a keen mind wired to a sensitive input. Occasional overload just happens.

For the record, I have no inside information. I just recognize the signs. If I had a nickel for everytime it has happened to me, I'd buy a tin of Westminster to celebrate...a 100-pound tin.

Vito jocolor
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Tony Ferrill
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:55 pm

Hell,I don't let posers bother me anywhere.If I got somethin to say,I say it.If I don't,I don't.
I enjoy many here,and LL is one such;maybe it's like Vito says-BS sensor overload.
Life is short.Can't waste too much time on trivial stuff,and I sure can't take myself too seriously.I just try to do what is right,and hold others to a standard a mite less demanding.
And when I go out on the motorcycle,I know there will be at least one idiot that will take a shot at me.That way I'm prepared for it,and expecting it I can somewhat protect myself from it.
Same with interpersonal relationships,same with this board.There are men here that I would invite to my family's home unreservedly.
LL would be on that list.Hope he comes back.
Tony
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:02 am

I think this sucks. George is a friend, and I have no option but respect his decision to do what he needs to do, even though I don't like it one bit. The world won't stop turning, and the board will continue to do what it does, but his absence will definitely leave a hole that won't be filled, and for that, I'm saddened.

It's truly a shame.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:44 am

Retiring from the e-world without acknowledging the nice stuff some of you just posted would be rude and dismissive, I think, so I thought I'd stop in to say thanks for the thoughts, and give a final wave.

I'm simply not designed for this sort of thing. Like someone who breaks his leg every time he goes skiing, after a while it sinks in he'd be better off not doing it. There are certain things that I simply cannot tolerate about the e concept. The main one being the "CB Effect"... the sense of being untouchable that causes some people to behave quite differently than they would if they were, well... touchable. In my mind, proper behavior is not linked to the likelihood of being held to account, but is an absolute regardless of circumstances. That's one of the distinctions between adults and children, I think.

I guess I'm old fashioned. My dad was the same way.

For whatever reason I'm unable to shrug that off as an unavoidable part of the e landscape, too. Indeed, the opposite is true: my disgust and anger only increase with each occurrence. Combine that with the gentler, but even more pervasive version of the same problem---that one has no choice but to take what people say on faith, but there's never been an easier environment for misdirection and deception in the history of the world---and there's damn little of value left.

So. As I said earlier, it finally dawned on me that the whole "Net community" thing is a foolish way for me to spend my time. Maybe not for everyone---some people are natural skiiers---but certainly for me.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Enjoy your pipes and tobaccos, I sure plan on enjoying mine. Very Happy

Regards,

George
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:38 am

LL,

I am at a loss for words. I have learned a lot from your posts. And your talents are and will continue through your business. You have also shared very openly about some of personal journey (moving to ND and the challenges leading up to that move, for example.)

One of the recent delights, that I'm sure all of us have been pleased with, is the take-off of your new business adventure, your sharing so intimately and personally through pictures and commentary of some of your work.

I hope you will drop by occasionally and bless us with your presence.

-Paul
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:18 am

I find myself nodding to a lot of what LL is saying (despite the pounding headache I have right now). Many parts of the pipe community (as with any community) has gone sour (specifics intentionally left out), and it's a damn shame.

It doesn't take much to make a place unbearable, but it takes a lot to keep it from happening. The anonymity and distance you have online enables people in a positive, but also in a negative way.

<shameless exaggeration>If we were all members of a gentleman's club (no women allowed) who met every day after work. Enjoying a sip of cognac, a cigar or a pipe while chatting or reading the newspaper, disputes could be readily handled face to face with a quick exchange of words (no fighting since you're always wearing your good tweed jacket), and that would be the end of it.

Fair winds, LL.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:24 am

glpease wrote:
I think this sucks. George is a friend, and I have no option but respect his decision to do what he needs to do, even though I don't like it one bit. The world won't stop turning, and the board will continue to do what it does, but his absence will definitely leave a hole that won't be filled, and for that, I'm saddened.

It's truly a shame.
I too think this sucks. Although I have disagreed with LL's opinion on a few things, I have always respected your opinion and thought it to be genuine. I have always felt that pretty much everyone here has been genuine in their postings with the exception of the occasional troll (Knox Board). You have been a great resource on all things related to pipe and blends and really hope that you reconsider. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:47 am

I truly think that each and every one of us here has felt the way George does from time to time.I've left several boards myself over the years as I was'nt happy with the direction that they were going in.Generally I'll just take a break from them for a while and check back in a week or two.If the same nonsense is still raging,I know that it's time to take their link off of my "favorites" page.I try to avoid the farewell post as I figure that none will really give a damn wheather I'm there or not. tongue Generally though,these are unmoderated boards that I speak of.Unfortunately we're in an age that pro tobacco boards can't go unchecked as there's far too many anti's w/ little else to do but spew their misguided hatred.It's diffrent here though.As on Knoxville and My-Pipes Community,I always feel as I'm among friends...

I hope you'll reconsider your desision George.You've helped to "class the joint up" just by being around.Folks WILL give a damn if you're not here...

Best,
Dock
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PostSubject: Re: Can't really think of a title   Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:57 pm

Dock J.Perry wrote:
Folks WILL give a damn if you're not here...

That boils this all down to the barest essence of it.

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