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 Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...

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happypipester



Age : 26
Registration date : 2009-09-09

PostSubject: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:27 am

...but, I have a short paper I'm doing for a class on marketing targeting baby-boomers, and the common use of deception (or subterfuge if ya wanna be deceptive in labeling it) and I thought it might be interesting to get some experiences from some of the fine young members on our forum who fall into that category. Any interesting experiences?

Actually, were it not for this paper, I might have asked this question anyway, because it's an interesting one.. truth is (no pun intended lol), deception in some form or another is a part of marketing, but not all deception is created equal lol.. it can be quite interesting to hear about some of the stories people have, so please, share!

I've also noticed that many pipesmokers, whatever their age, tend to be a lot less easily deceived by BS in anything (though we routinely shovel it out Razz ). This could turn into a rather interesting conversation methinks.

Cheers fellas!

P.S. I am currently a business major, but will be switching to English. What's scary is pretty much everybody I've told has said, "Yeah, I can see you as an English teacher or professor pretty easily" Laughing

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itsKot

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Age : 27
Location : Malmö, Sweden
Registration date : 2010-09-19

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:21 am

happypipester wrote:

P.S. I am currently a business major, but will be switching to English. What's scary is pretty much everybody I've told has said, "Yeah, I can see you as an English teacher or professor pretty easily" Laughing

Funny you say that 'cause I got that a lot too when I switched my major from finance to history!
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Slow Puffs
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Age : 68
Location : Alberta. Canada
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:48 pm

Quote :
The first Black Velvet Lady was introduced to the world in 1969 as an advertisement tool for Black Velvet. Since that time, such famous names as Christie Brinkley, Cybill Shepard, Kim Alexis, Cheryl Tiegs, and Kelly Emberg have all been Black Velvet Ladies. The current Black Velvet Lady is Tami Donaldson, born and raised in Hollywood, Florida.




I got a business degree then switched to theology. I recall in the Ethics course that the prof pointed out how women were used in advertisements to sell cars. Here is an example of selling a brand of Canadian WhisKy.
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Slow Puffs
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Age : 68
Location : Alberta. Canada
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:54 pm

BTW, here is Tami Donaldson, the latest Black Velvet Lady:





As a baby boomer this appeals to me. I bought two bottles.
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Carlos
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Age : 60
Location : Chestnut, IL
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:27 pm

For the most part, I hate advertisements. I ignore them usually. I consider most advertisers to be truly one of the stupidest forms of life on this planet. Lower than some car salesmen.

For some reason advertisers think that flooding time slots with their ads generates increased sales. Perhaps among the equally stupid it does. For those of us with any decent amount of smarts, it is a signal to avoid their products. Avoid their businesses. You want to assault me with stupid ads while I am listening to a radio or watching a TV, you risk pissing me off. I have no trouble avoiding a business or a product on purpose for years, decades, or forever.

Ads need to be clever and make you laugh. They need to be ran as little as possible to be effective. Advertisers can gain more from being easily found on a Google search, than on the airwaves. Spamming my email addresses or calling my phone is a quick way to lose a customer permanently.


sunny

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Ol'Dawg

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Age : 71
Location : Northeast Georgia
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:44 pm

Though I don't usually drink Black Velvet, that add will make me think twice the next time I'm shopping in the Canadian whiskey section of the liquor store!
Back to the topic,
Some marketing angles I like--
samples
simplicity in English wording
product practicalilty
senior discounts
warranties, US contact phone numbers, addresses

Some marketing angles I don't like--
reward or loyalty cards
ads not related to the product
deceptive ads, especially quantity discounts, i.e. 2 for a nickel, three for a dime
No acronyms, hype, foreign language etc.
coupons
telemarketers
email and regular mail ads
"as seen on TV"

Jim...one OFs opinions
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happypipester



Age : 26
Registration date : 2009-09-09

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:55 pm

Very interesting comments, guys. The more I read, the more I realized I must fall into the category of old fart.. at 19 lol. Actually, I think I have for quite some time. I was always particularly attached to my grandpa who was the perfect example of a simple, yet highly intelligent, farmer. A lot of his kind natured, yet completely honest attitude towards life rubbed off on me.

The dishonesty in much of the business world, particularly marketing, is what made me decide to switch over to English. I realize dishonesty is everywhere to some extent, but the business world includes too much a** kissing and outright lying for the sake of a few extra bucks for me to stomach.

Plus I love English/Theatre, so at least I'll be a happy poor guy Razz
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Iron man

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Location : Kosse, Tx.
Registration date : 2011-02-25

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:06 pm

I am definitely in the old fart category. My wife doesn't like riding with me if I drive because I drive so slow, lol. I enjoy seeing the new commercials during the super bowl but other than that rarely pay attention to advertising. I tend to DVR the few shows I'm interested in and skip through commercials. Every now and again an ad will catch my eye and I'll think, okay, maybe I could check it out. For the most part I rely on customer satisfaction ratings when making a big purchase.
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Harlock999

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Location : Los Angeles
Registration date : 2010-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:39 am

I hate those Carl's Jr ads. Just the sound of that guy's smarmy voice saying "If it doesn't get all over the place..." makes me change the channel before the ad is over. Kim Kardashian however...
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raghur

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Age : 45
Location : Monterey
Registration date : 2011-02-22

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:29 am

Here are a couple of books you could read:

Hoodwinking Hitler, and Age of Propaganda

Neither are business books, but some of the lessons learned about deception can carry over into the business world. If nothing else they are quite interesting reads.
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MDPipeSmoker

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Location : Southern Maryland
Registration date : 2011-01-27

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:10 am

The term, "Pre Approved" in any credit card mailing is a good example.

"if you act now" is another, then there is "you get a 60 dollars value for 19.99" selling it at 19.99 makes it a 20 dollar value not a 60 dollar value, its a play on words.
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Dmntd_1

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Age : 55
Location : Earth
Registration date : 2010-05-18

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:54 am

MDPipeSmoker wrote:
"if you act now"

And we’ll send you another one free, just pay separate processing and handling.

It's all horse crap!
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LIPIPE

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Age : 69
Location : Setauket,Long Island and upstate Granville, New York
Registration date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:05 am

I'm a boomer. I hate "Penzance.....I can only send you two foil 8 oz packs." There is no shortage of tobacco leaf just as there is no shortage of oil in Saudi Arabia. Just alot of marketing phoney shortage crap. I always have plenty of Penzance cellared and I'm not divulging my sources. I smoke it often and in very large bowled pipes. I was a business major in college. MBA...I am allergic to marketing hype that is all around us. Any vendor that screws with me is on my "S" list.
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Markx



Location : GB/Azores
Registration date : 2010-12-29

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:39 am

I make it a special point NOT to buy stuff that's advertised.
The more it's pushed in my face the more certain that I won't buy it.
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hobie1dog

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Age : 61
Location : Cornelius, NC
Registration date : 2010-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:55 am

LIPIPE wrote:
I'm a boomer. I hate "Penzance.....I can only send you two foil 8 oz packs." There is no shortage of tobacco leaf just as there is no shortage of oil in Saudi Arabia. Just alot of marketing phoney shortage crap. I always have plenty of Penzance cellared and I'm not divulging my sources.


I knew you were my best friend, ole buddy ole pal...Penzance buddies for life. Very Happy

Scarcity....and the Illusion of Need. When I win the Lottery, I'm going to the British Isles and buying the Penzance factory. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:58 am

happypipester wrote:
deception in some form or another is a part of marketing, but not all deception is created equal lol.. it can be quite interesting to hear about some of the stories people have, so please, share!

I've also noticed that many pipesmokers, whatever their age, tend to be a lot less easily deceived by BS in anything
Selling raped-by-cost-accountants tobaccos under their original names would qualify.

The most obnoxious, to my mind, are some of the pipe dealers at Flea Bay. The most annoying of them headline stuff with trigger words like "Rare" (it isn't), "Award Winning" (he just gave it one) and "Pristine" (if you don't look too closely at the bite zone) and want the highest possible prices for the same pipes they outbid me on a month before at one bump over lowball wholesale. I genuinely enjoy seeing this stuff close at "Reserve Not Met" after one bid of ten cents. You'd think they'd give up after a while but, sadly, this is not the case.

Probably the most deceptive are the outright pigs that ask way more than stuff is worth with straight faces and, unfortunately, sometimes get it from naively trusting people who don't know any better yet. One case in point was a pipe I watched Marty Pulvers sell an example of for $50 at his site that's been offered at $175 for a couple years now.

What a Face

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LIPIPE

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Age : 69
Location : Setauket,Long Island and upstate Granville, New York
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:54 pm

And to quote Jackie Gleason...." How sweet it is " ! No better way for men to stink up a room with manliness. A long slow smoke in the largest bowl. As a boomer I have no problem telling any chick that doesn't like my " Penzance cologne aroma" to buzz off. My signature is my motto.
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Dmntd_1

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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:35 pm

In Inferno, a science fiction take on Dante's inferno by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell. There’s a level of hell reserved for advertisers where they spend eternity wading through neck deep crap, where does all this crap come from, it spews from their mouths every time they open them, as in life.

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forsooth

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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:53 pm

OK, so I'm going to own up. It is not as if I ever claimed to be that smart anyway.

So, we don't own a television and haven't for over 10 years. However, someone recommended a Youtube video of the now famous Old Spice commercial, which I thought was amusing. The next time I went to Costco, the Old Spice bath gel display appeared in front of me. I picked up a container, sniffed it, and, evidently, thought that it might make me smell like a stud. I bought some.

While waiting in line to check out, an older gentleman peered into my cart and saw the Old Spice bath gel. He said, "I know why you bought that." I said, "Yep, the commercial." We both laughed as he pointed into his cart. He had picked up some, too.

Oh, well. Gotta go. I'm on my way to the liquor store to buy some Black Velvet. Damned good stuff. I hope.
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blade

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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:36 pm

Carlos wrote:
For the most part, I hate advertisements. I ignore them usually. I consider most advertisers to be truly one of the stupidest forms of life on this planet. Lower than some car salesmen.

For some reason advertisers think that flooding time slots with their ads generates increased sales. Perhaps among the equally stupid it does. For those of us with any decent amount of smarts, it is a signal to avoid their products. Avoid their businesses. You want to assault me with stupid ads while I am listening to a radio or watching a TV, you risk pissing me off. I have no trouble avoiding a business or a product on purpose for years, decades, or forever.

Ads need to be clever and make you laugh. They need to be ran as little as possible to be effective. Advertisers can gain more from being easily found on a Google search, than on the airwaves. Spamming my email addresses or calling my phone is a quick way to lose a customer permanently.


sunny

I could not have said it any better.
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Greenleaf

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Location : Dallas, Texas
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:00 am

I've participated in marketing research studies, some of them for advertisements. Focus groups are usually hell because the participants are so dumb it annoys the life out of any right-thinking person who might be in the room. Reality is that ads are stupid because people are stupid. What you see is what the people want. Simple and true as that.
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forsooth

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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:02 am

I totally agree. Ads are what they are because that is what works. Companies would not waste huge sums of money on today's advertisements on radio & TV if they did not work.

Just wonder what the pipe-smoking culture would be like if, for 6 months, advertisements could be seen and heard promoting it. Maybe the esteemed Bamster would switch to a pipe, a la Gerald Ford.
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Carlos
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:42 pm

Ads are what they are not because they work. But because they do get some positive results. At the same time they are pissing off other people who will never purchase their product. So, they can find a way to measure positive results. But how do you measure those that refuse to purchase the product because they felt assaulted by the ad? There is no way to count the number of people who felt their time was wasted, and in the best way possible, refuse to open their wallets as a protest. There is no sure way to know how large the target audience really is. People guess all the time. But they really do not know. But to sell ad space, they try to make out like they really know. It's all a guessing game.



So those that want to advertise flood the market with their chosen method. Ignorant to the possibility that they could be doing better.

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forsooth

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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:09 pm

I guess I have a little more positive attitude about commercial advertising. They enable me to get the content I desire without cost.

Anytime that I get a little flustered with commercial advertising, I remind myself that the alternative consists of government-sponsored content, such as NPR. That's the same government that is trying (successfully, sadly) to subdue my liberties. No thanks, I'll take the boring, overblown ads any day.

And, yes, they do work. I look at the products about my home and I see DeWalt and Makita tools, a new Honda automobile, Del Monte and Green Giant canned foods, Crest toothpaste, an Eizo monitor, an HP printer, Klipsch speakers, a few best-selling books, and, as I mentioned in a previous post, Old Spice bath gel.

And, as a fairly new pipe smoker, I just enjoyed some of the tobacco I ordered from pipesandcigars.com, of which I became aware from an internet advertisement.
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Carlos
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PostSubject: Re: Not To Make Anyone Feel Like an Old Fart...   Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:13 pm

Why is it so hard for people to get smarter? To be more clever. We see a little of it at Superbowl time. A bit more during football season with the beer ads. But like any good thing, sometimes the advertiser thinks more of a good thing is better and we get sick and tired of it. A business needs to be easily found. There are times when that means billboards, and other times when it means Yellow Pages or Google. Sponsors have their logos all over any place they can. That's a part of life in this country, and others. But if we cannot control it, then it becomes a nuisance. Just like the ads you see when viewing this site as a guest.


As far as NPR is concerned. No Federal funds are given to NPR directly. Less than 6% of their total funding does come from federal monies given to member stations. The bulk of monies for NPR come from public contributions and corporate dollars.

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