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 **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED

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Brewdude

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Age : 65
Location : Near the Emerald city
Registration date : 2011-05-04

PostSubject: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:47 pm

Here they come again. This time to fund the Americans W/ Disabilites Act.
They will NEVER stop. Check out the proposed tax on PIPE TOBACCO - $49.55 a pound! OUCH!

Senator Tom Harkin (Democrat-Iowa) has introduced S. 1403 in the U.S. Senate, a bill to reauthorize and fund the Individuals with Disabilities Act.

A portion of the funding for the extension of the Individuals with Disabilities Act would come from increasing the federal excise tax on cigarettes, cigars, pipe tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, snuff and chewing tobacco. The proposed tax increases are as follows:

Cigarettes
Current Tax Rate
$1.01 Per Pack
Proposed Tax Rate
$2.01 Per Pack

Little Cigars
Current Tax Rate
$1.01 Per Pack
Proposed Tax Rate
$2.01 Per Pack (weighing 4 pounds per thousand)

Pipe Tobacco
Current Tax Rate
$2.8311 Per Pound
Proposed Tax Rate
$49.55 Per Pound

Roll-Your-Own Tobacco
Current Tax Rate
$24.78 Per Pound
Proposed Tax Rate
$49.55 Per Pound

Single Use Smokeless Units (Snus)
$.10 Per Single Use Unit

The bill would tax all other tobacco products at a level equivalent to the tax rate for cigarettes on an estimated per use basis as determined by the FDA. Also, each of these cigarette and tobacco tax rates would have an annual inflation adjustment. Currently, there is no similar bill in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Source:http://www.natocentral.org/
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Krusty

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Location : Pacific NorthWest
Registration date : 2010-12-20

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:02 pm

Build your cellar now.
Build it fast and build it deep.

I have been, and will continue to do so until enactment of such as S1403 make it so I can no longer afford to.

I do miss the country of my birth.
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LIPIPE

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Age : 69
Location : Setauket,Long Island and upstate Granville, New York
Registration date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:04 pm

Any member of congress who makes outlandish proposals is not doing his or her job. They should not be voted out of office, but arrested on the spot for stealing their pay. The proposed tax increase is beyond outlandish, it is insane. Congress is not only out to lunch but out of whak! It seems that we lose by just getting up every morning.

What goes around comes around. That congressman needs to have a pipe stuffed up his ass. Maybe it will help him pass his shit legislation into a pot where it belongs!
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Lesath

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Location : The Ozarks, well hidden and always at large
Registration date : 2011-07-22

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:20 pm

Twelve inch clay sewer pipe filled with concrete, liberally coated with its former contents, lubricated with five minute epoxy, followed by a loading dose of castor oil combined with Cascara sagrada and Exlax orally Q2 until satisfactory results occur...
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LIPIPE

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Age : 69
Location : Setauket,Long Island and upstate Granville, New York
Registration date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:55 pm

Whoever thought pipe smokers were laid back gentlemanly creatures, self centered upon their favorite blends and thinkers of lofty thoughts just blow'in smoke, never met the "old men" pipe smokers. Hell can render no wrath greater than a group of old pipe smokers who are wise enough to know when they are being shafted. We have defended this country in time of war and we have built this country in times of peace. We have worked hard, raised our families and paid our dues in life. Our duly elected representatives were sent to state capitals and to Washington to properly represent us. If all they can do on a workday in the office is shit on us, they had better get used to the aromas of their creation. We'll be sending our letters to congress properly addressed to the "ASS ON THE CRAPPER"!
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CarterHallJunkie

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Age : 54
Location : St. Louis Metro
Registration date : 2011-08-07

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:09 pm

Guess this newb needs to learn how to build a tobacco cellar

good god almighty - will it never end?
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PipePuffer

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Location : Alabama
Registration date : 2010-11-22

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:10 pm

That would add $5-$6 to the cost of a tin. OUCH!


Last edited by PipePuffer on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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LIPIPE

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Age : 69
Location : Setauket,Long Island and upstate Granville, New York
Registration date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:25 pm

IMHO hoarding pipe tobacco is the stick your head in the sand response. There is no need to plan for doomsday. The plan should be to tell a fool who is masquerading as a legislator to "Stick your bill where the sun does not shine!" "Don't dump on us and think you will escape our financial pain!"
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Brewdude

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Location : Near the Emerald city
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:29 pm

LIPIPE wrote:
IMHO hoarding pipe tobacco is the stick your head in the sand response. There is no need to plan for doomsday. The plan should be to tell a fool who is masquerading as a legislator to "Stick your bill where the sun does not shine!" "Don't dump on us and think you will escape our financial pain!"

THIS!

Mad

No Cheer here right now!

RR

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:56 pm

It's clear you greed filled wealthy people hate disabled Americans.
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forsooth

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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:59 pm

Harkin is one of several darlings of the left. Tax, tax, and more tax is their repeated answer to any problem, crisis, or...well, hell, it is just their way of life.

Hopefully, this will fail under the the growing demand for "no tax increases."

Thanks for posting the notice. I had not heard it.
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Doc Manhattan

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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:03 pm

puros_bran wrote:
It's clear you greed filled wealthy people hate disabled Americans.
Laughing

I'm morally handicaped... where's my check?
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puros_bran
Nightrider
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:45 pm

Truth is relative. Blah blah What's right for me may not be right for you.
Etc etc.
There are no absolutes. Yada yada
You can't be morally handicapped. Morals are just imaginary rules of the religious to spoil the fun man. But I digress.the social contract that you were born into demands that you help the disabled. Now quit trying to lawyer your way put of it and smoke up, America needs you.
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Hermit

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Location : Ascension Parish
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:49 pm

LIPIPE wrote:
IMHO hoarding pipe tobacco is the stick your head in the sand response. There is no need to plan for doomsday. The plan should be to tell a fool who is masquerading as a legislator to "Stick your bill where the sun does not shine!" "Don't dump on us and think you will escape our financial pain!"


Mebbie so, but I'm purty glad I have a 100 kilo stash. Twisted Evil
If I live long enough, I'll be smokin' twenty-plus year old tobacco.
(and all the cigars I'll ever need.)
I'll still vote against any asshole who supports this theft.
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sand18f

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Age : 67
Location : Southern Appalachia
Registration date : 2011-01-17

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:32 am

" When in the course of human events...
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gandalfpc

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Age : 50
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:00 am

You can fight against it, vote against it, and pray against it -but if you don't build your cellar now you will pay for it later...

The only question is how many years before the price doubles, and you can be sure you will only need the fingers of one hand to keep count till then...

Now 120 a pound for GLP wouldn't be Armageddon, just double the price... No reason to panic just yet - but it is just the next step in a 20 year plan to eradicate most tobacco use - all but the politicians cigars...

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Krusty

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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:53 am

Quote :
IMHO hoarding pipe tobacco is the stick your head in the sand response. There is no need to plan for doomsday. The plan should be to tell a fool who is masquerading as a legislator to "Stick your bill where the sun does not shine!" "Don't dump on us and think you will escape our financial pain!"

No one has suggested that a body can't do both.
Building a cellar or as some may seem to denigrate with the term hoarding, is nothing more than common sense.
Between the Antis' and the Tax and Spenders, niche pursuits such as ours stand a good chance of being severely hobbled with respect to availability and affordability.

I have a respectable cellar weight wise.
I continue to add to it.
I do not consider this hoarding in a negative connotation.
I consider this being sensible given the current climate with respect to tobacco use.

I vote.
I write letters.
I send e-mails.
I make phone calls.

My head is not in the sand.
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velveteagle

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Age : 63
Location : Allegan Michigan
Registration date : 2010-07-13

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:19 am

The greedy government so called leaders are dancing to the tune of special interests.. There is no moral obligation to the people who hold this country together.. How long before the weight will break the camels back ? Do they think London is so very far away ? Not to many people I know care for the role being played by are so called leaders.. Where will they fly to when the fields dance with fire ? I will support the common man in this country when it comes to finding new leaders with new roles for America.. It may not involve the crooks who think they have this power now and get those fancy cigars as gifts from the tobacco stock clan.. I miss America.. I hold my pipe to the west in remembrance of what she used to be but has fallen to the greed of the powerful few.. Of The People , For The People is History.. Smoke It If You Have It..
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LIPIPE

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Age : 69
Location : Setauket,Long Island and upstate Granville, New York
Registration date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:00 am

PB speaks of wealthy people.....There are no longer any wealthy people. Just corrupt ones. The stock market has been the great "equalizer". The so called wealthy people have self destructed the world economy. Most wealth has been lost by many. My take on the situation is a need for radical reform. I will only support a legislator who has a pipe in his mouth and a brain in his head. If there is a resurgence of men who appreciate a good pipe, those are the guys whom we need to replace foolishness with sanity. The problem with our "back room political policy" is the absence of the stink of latakia. PB knows how to haul a load of horse shit. It's time to back a trailer to the congressional loading dock and load up.
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Tim_Haggerty

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PostSubject: On the Soapbox, I am afraid   Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:24 pm

It will end, and badly. Tobacco use has become so demonized in American (or western) culture so quickly that it now acts as a proxy for a myriad of social conditions. Like the Temperance movement, which used alcohol consumption to reign in the unstoppable forces of 19th and early 20th-century immigration and globalization, smokers have become an easy target for those unwilling to look at larger cultural changes.

I am not going to argue against the effect of tobacco use on health, but would like to point out that the majority of current epidemiological studies are based on samples in a culture where heavy cigarette smoking was a cultural norm, and the extrapolation of public health projections from that data seems curiously static. The studies that argue for second- (or third-) hand damage are so specious they can be dismissed out of hand, except for those who see their political use (what control group could conceivablt have been used to validate these conclusions in 20th c. America? Mormons in the Arctic?).

A reality is that over time and in aggregate, tobacco use has become more prevalent in working class communities that are increasingly marginalized in economic and political discourse (and yes, I know that many of us buck that trend in one way or another, but we are a anomalies, albeit handsome ones). It took me about 12 seconds to come across the following quote from SD Stellman of the American Health Foundation, published in a journal of the World Health Organization:

"A critical question is the extent to which tobacco usage can 'explain' the observed social class differences in cancer risk. Class differences in lung cancer are likely to be mostly related to the unequal distribution of tobacco smoking between social classes, and in some fairly simple situations this has been satisfactorily demonstrated. Nevertheless, there are many unresolved issues, especially with regard to the role of collateral exposures, such as hazardous occupations, poor diet, and limited access to health care. The question of whether tobacco use 'explains' socioeconomic differences in one or more of the cancers that it causes has rarely been directly addressed in epidemiological studies."

And why should it be? It's far easier to make smokers whipping boys than examine some unpleasant facts concerning the distribution of health care or the stratification of income. As someone who enjoys to smoke I am already paying for the Children's Health Insurance Program in my state, and it now seems Senator Harkness would like me to pay for federal disability programs as well. And why not have the poor pay for services to the exclusion of the rest of the public? Better, we can target other misbehaving groups and levy them specifically, in order to make the punishment fit the crime: the elderly could be made to pay for child care and education reform since it is their own issue that ultimately creates demand for new services, or the obese could pay for infrastructure improvements since their extra body mass hastens its decline.

I am as willing as anyone to write letters and call my representatives; indeed, I think that these efforts do work in the short term and have helped to ameliorate the more ridiculous attempts to control tobacco use. But I am still building a cellar. We are suffering already from death by a thousand blows -- states have regulated B&M's to death, banned internet sales, and raised the age of tobacco purchase as well as prescribe the number of places where smoking is allowed. It's like stepping into a hornet's nest.

And while this is not directly related to the topic at hand, a friend of mine from Latin America once said, "you know, when they raise the bus fare, we set fire to the buses." The recent "protests" in Greece and more straightforwardly _riots_ in London suggest a kind of tipping point towards the use of government as a police mechanism for the protection of private wealth; I am no fan of the Tea Party, but this kind of populist movement should be given its due.


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LIPIPE

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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:56 pm

Tim: Thoughtful, scholarly, and well presented argument. What I believe we are witnessing is the failure of economic policy and the inability of government to stimulate economic recovery. Taxation is the only available tool governmental authorities have to generate revenue. Governments do not produce any goods nor sell any services. They are strictly cost centers and not revenue centers. All revenue is derived from taxation; it is not earned. We pay income tax when we earn money, sales tax when we spend it, real estate tax on our property, and inheritance tax when our relatives leave any money not otherwise spent or taxed. We also pay road, tunnel and bridge tolls, parking tickets, and other fees to government authorities that are also taxes under different titles such as use fees or penalty fees. Governmental agencies at all levels are up against a brick wall as to how to continue to generate revenues from a population suffering an economic catastrophic decline. Hence they bounce upon goodness and holiness. "Tobacco is bad for you, so let's tax it". Our good health is not the concern, but, rather the wave of the punishment finger for our transgression is a ruse to charge a tax. Gasoline tax is another issue out of control. In New York State we pay enormous per gallon tax for fuel which is 10% ethanol. We pay registration fees for the right to drive on public roads and we pump money into parking meters so that we may have the opportunity to leave our car on a street in order to go into a shop and spend money that is taxed again. If we dally for an extra minute or two, we get a summons and hence another tax. It is a game of gotcha. Revenue is raised from the backs of those who work. Unfortunately, now, many backs are broken and more than just a few are not working.

Cellaring is a code word for hoarding and with respect to tobacco that is not a sustainable solution. Unreasonable taxation on tobacco will lead to unreasonable taxation on every other taxable item and the end result that we are beginning to witness is a failed system. It is a dimwit band-aid on a spreading systemic infection. Our congressional representatives need to become realistic, about their powers of taxation and the backlash that they will create for idiot bills that they float when their constituents are beyond their fiscal breaking points.

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ZeroContent

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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:46 pm

Maybe it'll become a black market item like moonshine and pot.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:24 pm

Pay your share and quit bitching.
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:24 pm

I can't say that the money is not going to a good cause. I think any revenue destined to help people is a good idea.

I think who they're targeting to do the helping smacks of "kick 'em when they're down", even when the cause is worthy. I'd say the bill is pretty much a shoe-in as it comes down to: "People like and want to help disabled folk, and everyone hates smokers, so let's TAX their asses". Easy way to get support and revenue for your cause that way. To argue against it will be met with "so you don't want to help disabled people then? See?! I told you smokers are assholes, they DESERVE to be taxed for that selfish attitude!!!"

A more modest tax on fast food, say, would generate ever greater total income. The idea is to simply target a sector which is easy to gather public support against and pair it with a humanitarian cause at which nobody will dare oppose. Pretty smart actually.

Kind of a no-win situation as far as I can see.

As for cellaring or hoarding, it just makes economic sense in the light of coming legislation. I do the best I can in that regard but my income bracket doesn't allow me to put away 100 lbs per year. Not of quality stuff anyway. I'll continue to build mine, and just hope it doesn't get to the point where cost prevent me from continuing with my hobby.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: **URGENT** CRIPPLING TAXES ON PIPE TOBACCO PROPOSED   Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:01 pm

So a fast food sin tax is better?

Remember the Dem's ' change you can trust' ?
Remember the Rep's ' back to the constitution' ?

We've got and are still getting exactly what we wanted.
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