HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  
Share
 

 Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
puros_bran
Nightrider
puros_bran

Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 3:33 pm

Two things. 1. Although Tennessee's Pride, Jack Daniels, is owned by a Louisville Ky based corporation it IS NOT bourbon.
2. The real good stuff never leaves the state.


Keep supporting Kentuckys economy, and please drink yourself into oblivian responsibly.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
puros_bran
Nightrider
puros_bran

Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 3:37 pm

And it IS NOT legally defined as a bourbon. Bourbon is a Kentucky Product..
Scotch from Scotland, Champaigne from France, Bourbon from Kentucky.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LPcreation

LPcreation

Location : State College, PA
Registration date : 2011-07-22

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 3:49 pm

puros_bran wrote:
And it IS NOT legally defined as a bourbon. Bourbon is a Kentucky Product..
Scotch from Scotland, Champaigne from France, Bourbon from Kentucky.

I'm pretty sure it is.

Quote :
However, Tennessee whiskey is required to be "a straight Bourbon Whiskey" under terms of the North American Free Trade Agreement,[10] and Canadian law,[11] and there is no other legal definition of the term "Tennessee whiskey" (other than U.S. law governing the definition of "whiskey" in general).

Link

Quote :
Tennessee whiskey is Straight Bourbon Whiskey produced in the state of Tennessee.[1][2][3] This definition is legally established under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)[1] and at least one other international trade agreement[2] that require that Tennessee whiskey be "a straight Bourbon Whiskey authorized to be produced only in the State of Tennessee", and the law of Canada,[3] which states that Tennessee whiskey must be "a straight Bourbon whisky produced in the State of Tennessee".

I could be interpretting it wrong, but that's what I meant by being "legally defined" as a bourbon.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
puros_bran
Nightrider
puros_bran

Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 4:00 pm

I don't give a damn what NAFTA, ITA, or Wikipedia says. Lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
glpease
Dark Lord
glpease

Age : 61
Location : Here, now. Somewhere else, later...
Registration date : 2007-12-11

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 4:07 pm

puros_bran wrote:
And it IS NOT legally defined as a bourbon. Bourbon is a Kentucky Product..
Scotch from Scotland, Champaigne from France, Bourbon from Kentucky.

Turns out this isn't quite the case. Bourbon is legally defined as a whiskey made in the US from a grain mash containing at least 51% corn, aged, however briefly, in new, charred oak barrels, and bottled at 80˚proof, or higher. There are some other technical requirements regarding minimum and maximum proof at distillation, and so on, and when age declarations are mandatory. I don't think this has always been true, and that at one time, whiskey had to come from Kentucky to be labeled as Bourbon, but it is the current legal definition within the US.

I'm not sure whether the filtering that takes place with Tennessee whiskey disqualifies it as a bourbon or not, according to US laws, but the end result is certainly different enough that it deserves its own classification, and NAFTA allows it to be classified as Bourbon Whiskey. (Not that NAFTA should have a vote in the matter...)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.glpease.com
Zeno Marx

Zeno Marx

Registration date : 2010-06-26

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 4:12 pm

Isn't there a The Kinks song that goes "Where have all the good times gone?"
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LPcreation

LPcreation

Location : State College, PA
Registration date : 2011-07-22

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 4:22 pm

puros_bran wrote:
I don't give a damn what NAFTA, ITA, or Wikipedia says. Lol

hahaha, I know what you mean and I'm in total agreement!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
puros_bran
Nightrider
puros_bran

Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 4:52 pm

Esteemed Greg, Master of Tastecular Arts, Hero to the Masses, and friend:
I refer you to my last post on the topic.

Bourbon was born in Kentucky, Bourbon is made in Kentucky.. Everything else is just whiskey. Some politician or bureaucrat playing with definitions doesn't change that.

It is very much like the roll your own crowd relabeling their wares as 'pipe tobacco'. It's not, we know it's not, and anyone that says otherwise is less than dependable.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mark
Admin
mark

Registration date : 2008-07-02

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 4:58 pm

mark wrote:
some of the others mentioned in the article I suspect are being greedily consumed not far from the distillery and fail to make a lengthy journey to my local liquor stores,,,

[quote==Puros_Bran]Two things. 1. blah blah blah blah blah,,,,,,2. The real good stuff never leaves the state.[quote]


I rest my case,,,,,buncha nectar hoarding greedy backwoods hooligans,,,, Sad





_________________
.

Sometimes I wake up grumpy. Other times I let her sleep.
.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
glpease
Dark Lord
glpease

Age : 61
Location : Here, now. Somewhere else, later...
Registration date : 2007-12-11

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2012 6:16 pm

puros_bran wrote:

Bourbon was born in Kentucky, Bourbon is made in Kentucky.. Everything else is just whiskey. Some politician or bureaucrat playing with definitions doesn't change that.

It is very much like the roll your own crowd relabeling their wares as 'pipe tobacco'. It's not, we know it's not, and anyone that says otherwise is less than dependable.

Touché on all counts!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.glpease.com
alfredo_buscatti

alfredo_buscatti

Age : 64
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-17

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2012 1:56 pm

I think the argument for a spirit being genuine based on where it was made misses the point. It is by attaining the minimum number of qualities considered to constitute a class that a thing attains the right to be included in that class. Just as excellent champagnes are produced outside of Champagne, so too good bourbons are produced outside of Kentucky.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ol'Dawg

Ol'Dawg

Age : 73
Location : Northeast Georgia
Registration date : 2008-01-03

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2012 2:18 pm

Alfredo,

If you were from a state that was famous for their whiskeys or bourbons, then I think you would better understand Puros and others feelings about their reasoning. Being originally from and raised in Tennessee, I've been a primary drinker of what used to be known as the "other" Tennessee whiskey, George Dickel. There are three distilleries in Tennessee now that Prichards is starting to make their way into the market.

To me it's somewhat of a pride issue...and my feelings are similar to Puros, i.e. Bourbon is made in Kentucky and Tennessee whiskey is made in Tennessee no matter how Nafta, ATF and other govt. agencies try to classify or define them.

Jim
Back to top Go down
View user profile
glpease
Dark Lord
glpease

Age : 61
Location : Here, now. Somewhere else, later...
Registration date : 2007-12-11

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2012 3:48 pm

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
I think the argument for a spirit being genuine based on where it was made misses the point. It is by attaining the minimum number of qualities considered to constitute a class that a thing attains the right to be included in that class. Just as excellent champagnes are produced outside of Champagne, so too good bourbons are produced outside of Kentucky.


But, that's the problem, isn't it? If I buy Champagne, I expect Champagne, not a sparkling wine made through méthode champenoise somewhere else in the world. I expect something very specific that intimately involves the terroir of of the grapes, the native wild yeasts, the time-honoured traditions of production, and, yes, even the molds growing on the walls of the caves. An Italian Proseco, a Spanish Cava, or a California sparkling wine isn't the same thing.

It was deemed misleading for California producers to give a sparkling wine a French sounding name, call it Champagne, and sell it as such, so the FTC got involved. Similarly, Burgundy is not a generic red wine sold in a jug, but something produced in a specific area of France. The French have a long tradition of the AOC, and it's important to them. It should be important to the rest of the world, too, to respect that tradition.

I actually find myself on the same side of the fence when it comes to Bourbon, even though it's less clearly defined. Whiskey is a distilled spirit. Bourbon is a specific distilled spirit, made in a specific way, originally from a specific area. Does it all have to come from Bourbon County? That's another question.

Tennessee Whiskey has enough of a unique character that it deserves to be separated from Kentucky Bourbon. They're both brown spirits, but they're different things. I guess the point is that Bourbon is whiskey, but whiskey isn't Bourbon, unless it's made there.

Scotch is made in Scotland. Other countries produce malt whisky, but it's not Scotch. Other countries can produce unpeated pot-still barley and grain whisky, but it's not Irish.

Most of these things are pretty obvious. Bourbon's definition, not so much.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.glpease.com
jefe1037

jefe1037

Age : 36
Location : Mr. Pleasant, SC
Registration date : 2012-02-07

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 21, 2012 12:44 am

With due respect, the ATF has very specific rules for Bourbon.

--It has to be at least 51% Corn in the Mash

--Aged In Charred, NEW White Oak Barrels(most of the old ones get cut in half and sold to the gentry as planters... look for these all over central kentucky on people's front porches and back decks)

--Made in the USA

--Multiple proof requirements based on distillation strength, barrel strength and bottling strength.

For the ATF to allow Bourbon to be printed on the Label, these are the criteria to be met.

Kentucky is the traditional source, but that is because of the High Limestone content in the water with almost no Iron. (similar to scotland, go figure... the water is the real source of the character)

Kentucky and tennesse share the same watershed, but Tennessee whiskey is "charcoal mellowed" rather than aged in charred oak barrels. This is not a strict labeling rule, just the twist on the rules to let jack daniels print whatever he wants

Woodford Reserve has the best distillery tour... went on a bottling day, so we got to taste it at barrel strenght...WOO!

Go to kentucky, bet on some horses, drink some bourbon, smoke a pipe in a tobacco field. It feels right....

drink a Bottle of Ale8 and get some Hall's Beer cheese and fried banana peppers for pro points

Back to top Go down
View user profile
ArleighBerg

ArleighBerg

Age : 50
Location : NW Minnesota
Registration date : 2012-03-27

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Weighing in   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 27, 2012 3:51 pm

I have limited experience but self-absorbedly refined tastes, I have found that some of the better bourbons are awfully fine spirits. I will agree with the early discussion in this thread regarding Booker’s. Its my current favorite if I’m out, but I have yet to purchase a bottle for home.
Jim Beam – the lowest I’ll go. This is a mixing bourbon only, for a simple coke mixer or if I want a fast Manhattan. I pay in the neighborhood of $19 US for a 750ml.
Maker’s Mark – the standard for a lot of people. It has a nice flavor and body, and is fine as a sipper. I tend to use this as my go-to bar stock for Manhattans and other mixers. Everybody seems to like it, and the only one of the bunch I’d drink on the rocks. $27-29 US for a 750ml.

Maker’s 46 – only slightly more cost than standard Maker’s and a far better taste. The extra barrel time gives it a very enjoyable smoothness. Highly recommended if you can find it. $35 US for a 750ml.

Knob Creek – in my opinion the standard 9 year small batch is the equal to Maker’s in cost and general characteristics. Around here it tends to be on sale and therefore cheaper than Maker’s. It is also slightly higher proof. I like the taste the best of these mid-range bourbons and it has been my main purchase for a few months now (over Maker’s). Knob Creek makes a 12 year version that, like the Maker’s 46, is well worth the slightly extra cost. Knob is a Jim Beam brand as well.

Evan Williams Vintage – purchased on a whim. I thought it was on par with the Maker’s 46 – more taste, less heaviness on the tongue, very smooth aftertaste and a pleasant fruitiness on the palate after swallowing. I would buy this again. Sorry – don’t recall the price but it was more than Maker’s 46 and less than Booker’s.

Booker’s – this is the only bourbon I’ve tried that made me instantly say “this is REALLY good”. Noticeably better than the others on my list. I’m not sure what to say about Booker’s other than if you are a fan of whisky and bourbon you will appreciate it a lot. I like this neat with a small splash of water, which brings out the flavor in an amazing way.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zeno Marx

Zeno Marx

Registration date : 2010-06-26

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 27, 2012 5:56 pm

ArleighBerg wrote:
I like this neat with a small splash of water
There's a lot of confusion about this. I thought neat meant by itself. Adding water or ice is not neat. Even professional bartenders in high-end bars cannot seem to agree. It's why I never use the term when I order outside the home.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
glpease
Dark Lord
glpease

Age : 61
Location : Here, now. Somewhere else, later...
Registration date : 2007-12-11

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 27, 2012 7:10 pm

jefe1037 wrote:
Go to kentucky, bet on some horses, drink some bourbon, smoke a pipe in a tobacco field. It feels right....

That sounds like an ideal prescription to me. I'll have to arrange that one of these days. I haven't had a holiday in ten years...

Been sipping through a bottle of Buffalo Trace recently, and finding it delightful. It's also, I think, one of the best values on market today. Very, very good, and priced moderately. (The George T. Stagg that comes from BT, on the other hand, is unobtainium as soon as it's released, and almost instantly commands nearly double the retail price on the secondary market. I guess these guys know how to make 'spensive bourbons, too.)

1792 Ridgemont Reserve. If I had to choose one and only one sipping bourbon to keep in stock, this would be it, though BT gives it some competition. The nose alone makes me happy, and the taste is exquisite. It's not cheap, but it's not expensive, and I actually prefer it to many more expensive bourbons. Personally, I think it deserved far better than the silver medal it won in 2010's spirits competition in San Francisco, but I wasn't voting.

Angel's Envy. Cool name. Pretty bottle. Tasted this at a friend's house again, and quite liked it. It's unusual, and the additional aging in Port casks give it some out-of-left-field flavors, but the bourbon backbone is nevertheless clearly present. The price, though, keeps it in the category of interesting, but not a must have for me.

Bulliet Rye, I'm still on the fence about. It's nice, and actually makes a very good Manhattan with the right proportion of vermouth, but for sipping, there are certainly better and more interesting ryes.

I tasted something at a friend's house the other night that was nearly orgasmic, and I didn't take note of what it was. I do know that it was one of his special "you can't get this" bottles that he somehow has the uncanny ability of being able to get. This, of course, makes it completely out of my price range, so its really academic, but next time I'm over there, I'll figure out what it was, just for the information's value.

Interestingly, I started out as a scotch guy exclusively. My early experiences with bourbon were dreadful, because it was dreadful bourbon. It was only a few years ago that a friend convinced me to taste what a truly good bourbon could offer, and I've been exploring the stuff ever since. Still a scotch man, but I'm now a bourbon man, too.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.glpease.com
Zeno Marx

Zeno Marx

Registration date : 2010-06-26

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 27, 2012 8:06 pm

glpease wrote:
Been sipping through a bottle of Buffalo Trace recently, and finding it delightful. It's also, I think, one of the best values on market today.
Cosigned. I believe it is $18.79 here. At less than $25, I don't think you can beat it or WT Russell's Reserve ($23.79). And honestly, I'd take either of these before many whiskeys in the $20-35 range.

This weekend I grabbed some of the newly formulated Four Roses Yellow Label (regular) for $16.79. I'd never tried any Four Roses. I'm still undecided on the flavor. I didn't have the best type meal to be drinking whiskey after it. I will say it is incredibly smooth; possibly the smoothest whiskey I've had sub-$20. Some reviews talk of oak and leather, and besides smoke (peat), those are at the top of my flavor desires. I definitely didn't catch any leather, and if any oakiness, it was very mild. I know. I know. What can I expect at $17? I was reminded that you have to pay for bold flavors (Rare Breed is my next purchase). I'll come back with a secondary report when I get the chance to visit the bottle again.

My 8th grade English teacher used to profess, "You haven't read it once until you've read it twice." When it comes to drink, tobacco, and music, I've adopted the rule of "you haven't heard or tasted it once until you've tried it thrice." I'm probably repeating myself. I'm getting deja vu.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ArleighBerg

ArleighBerg

Age : 50
Location : NW Minnesota
Registration date : 2012-03-27

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 27, 2012 11:24 pm

Zeno Marx wrote:
ArleighBerg wrote:
I like this neat with a small splash of water
There's a lot of confusion about this. I thought neat meant by itself. Adding water or ice is not neat. Even professional bartenders in high-end bars cannot seem to agree. It's why I never use the term when I order outside the home.

Neat does mean by itself. I should have been clearer in my description. I order my scotch neat every time. I also get a shot glass with either a few ice cubes or some water, then I add it myself. Thus when the sweet nectar is served it is truly neat. When I drink it, I have changed it into something else.

I read a quote from one of the old Jack Daniels' family codgers who has spent a lifetime making and drinking fine bourbon. He said he sits on his front porch every evening and enjoys a couple of fingers of whiskey. He considers what he makes to be one of the finest liquids one can put in one's body, and has a philosophy that supports this; by starting with a small amount of water in the glass and adding the bourbon, one is only improving what's in the glass. The other way around would be diluting a fine drink. I need to learn to live by that rule.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
puros_bran
Nightrider
puros_bran

Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyWed Mar 28, 2012 12:35 am

Greg if you come and don't tell me I will kick your ass.

On the other hand if you give me a day or two notice I will get you on Churchills backside and onto some of the nicest farms on the planet.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
wintermute



Age : 43
Location : Long Island, NY
Registration date : 2009-04-21

Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon   Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon - Page 2 EmptyThu Mar 29, 2012 9:15 am

What's all this noise about bourbon not being bourbon unless it's made in Kentucky (What if it's made in Kentucky but outside the boundaries of the defunct Bourbon County?). It that's the case, then I posit that rye is not rye unless it is made in Maryland, Pennsylvania, or New York. So that damn fine stuff I'm drinking made by Templeton (although it WAS made in Iowa prior to Prohibition, so it may count as a rye...judges?) and Bulleit are not ryes! Sazerac? Not rye either!

Although very expensive, when I'm gifted a bourbon or rye from Tuthilltown Distillery in New York, I'm very appreciative. Very good stuff. Their bourbon reminds me a bit of a Buffalo Trace product, but a (definitely not unpleasant) piney taste.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2
 Similar topics
-
» reply box turned into a "letter box" it to small and no emoticons available.
» Share small ads, like any theme
» Gold & Silver Small Shields
» 2 small flashing gifs, please
» Woman accused of crushing man to death

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Brothers of Briar :: Related Pursuits :: The Kitchen & The Speakeasy-
Jump to: