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Blackhorse
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Blackhorse

Age : 72
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PostSubject: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 4:47 pm

I'm thinkin' this might be fun. I've been making pipe tampers from damascus scrap and glass bead material while waiting to get a firebrick kiln area set up so I can temper and draw about 10 blades of various size that I've been working on this Winter. I'm tired of tampers, so for Father's Day, using money gained from the sale of a nice Blackjack Trail Guide in my blade collection I ordered two Nordic blades and sheaths to fit from Thompsons...link below so you can drool.

http://www.thompsonsknives.com/index.html

Brad Jarvis, who runs the thing, is a great guy to work with and there are tutorials on the site and also at his source...Brisa, for which he gives a link. I've got a WHOLE bunch of links stored for nordic style knives and some of them are the most amazing pieces of art I've ever seen. So the possibilities range from basic field piece to museum quality work of art. Me? I'm a field piece kinda guy...but always want to do my best and try very hard to use 'found' or 'on hand' materials whenever possible (design ethic).

The blades are listed and described below with photos.

What I want to do is have anyone reading this thread to comment on what they think I should do in making the handles...given the materials I have (which I will list). Post photos if you want (that's always fun). When I get into the making I'll start listing material options and if anyone has ideas or preferences - tell me and I'll incorporate what I can into the design. Then, as I make the things I'll post step-by-step photos of the work in progress.

So first here are the two blades:


This is the blurb on the first blade, much larger in size than I would normally pick:

Kankaanpää Knife Blades - Finland

Utility blades in Bohler Uddeholm 0.8% carbon steel used for decades. Slightly convex grind.
Rockwell Hardness 58 - 59.

Kankaanpaa is the name of the maker, an elderly man. The blanks are stamped, then they are sent for hardening.
They are ground on two big grinders, one for the left side one for right. These are from Germany, maybe 50 years old or more,
with a big rotating stone and a cooling system. At this point they are ground flat to zero.
Then Kankaanpaa manually puts on the second bevel, .. or not really.. he makes them a little convex close to the edge.
That is what he thinks is a good using knife. He comes from an area, Kauhava, where there is a long knife tradition and a lot of knowledge.

The blade: 161 Leuku 138x27 mm


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... 162


The second blade is a Puronvarsi:

Yrjo Puronvarsi blades are hammered out of old Krupp carbonsteel, and are unique with their rombic transversal section,
i. e. they are thickest in the middle where the grindline begins. I have read that the carbonsteel is the same as Silversteel...which is a carbon steel that is used in Finland for high-quality puukko knives. The steel can be sharpened to a very sharp, razor-like edge and can be hardened up to 64 HRC, which is (as you may know) very hard and comparable in hardness to a UHC from Roselli. The high amount of chromium (0.50–0.80) gives it it's shiny appearance. A beautifull steel that can retain it's egde for a long time but more brittle due to it's hardness than the everage hunting knife.

Puronvarsi 75 - 80 x 19 - 20 mm


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... 5286


Handles on these will likely be a combination of either Gabon Ebony or Honduran Rosewood for the main section then either black or ivory paper micarta plus nickel silver and fiber spacers.

I purchased an apporpriate Scandinavian style sheath that comes unstained, but lined to fit each.


Last on this first entry I'll post a photo of the first Nordic I made (my first knife, period actually) to give you an idea of what I'm likely leaning toward. I want to be traditional in the design...so one large section of antler or wood and a section of something else plus spacers...that kind of thing. But I'm open to other ideas.

Here's "Ol Number One" using a Lauri PTX plus nickel silver guard, black micarta and brass shimstock spacers, a Reindeer antler roll, and as a butt piece - a piece of the pipe kit's plateaux briar...which worked very well as the plateaux forms the face of the butt:


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... PipeandKnifeProjects029-1


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Fishfuzz

Fishfuzz

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 5:00 pm

I love simplicity in design. Thought this site had some brilliant ones:

http://www.foytik.com/Gallery.html

Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Einar

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Wet Dottle

Wet Dottle

Location : Littleton, CO
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 5:16 pm

I'm not a fan of Puukkos, but check out the work of Pekka Tuominen, it may give you inspiration.
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Blackhorse
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Blackhorse

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 8:23 pm

I like most all knives, with some exceptions. Each is designed for a specific setting and purpose. That and both the metalurgy and construction make it exciting. I like Pukkos and many other Nordic designs because the blades are of a practical size and the the construction is simple yet yields a highly functional piece.

Check out 'artknives.com' or it might be 'art-knives.com'. Pretty nice work there IMHO.

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Wet Dottle

Wet Dottle

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 9:40 pm

Blackhorse, you are right in everything you say. There are absolutely gorgeous Puukkos and they are very useful knives that have been around for ages. Mine is just a case of personal taste, and because I strongly dislike scandi grinds. But a Puukko with a nice flat grind has a lot going for it. Smile
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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 10:45 pm

Yeah...a flat grind isn't my favorite either. I REALLY prefer a well executed convex grind...SO easy to keep up...anywhere. That's why most all of my personal users are Bark River items. A2!!!


But did you notice that the Kankaanpaa Leuku I picked has a convex grind? That's why I picked it and went ahead and opted for such a giant (for a Nordic anyway) blade.

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gravel

gravel

Age : 46
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 11:36 pm

I have no idea what you folk are talking about.

Sweet knives!
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http://www.tobaccocellar.com/Gravel
Wet Dottle

Wet Dottle

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 12:15 am

Blackhorse, I'm with you on the convex grind. I convex all of my most used knives. And Bark River is also a favorite, as is Fallkniven. I've seen you work and I'm sure you'll be making some very nice knives. Don't forget to post pictures.
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George Kaplan

George Kaplan

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 5:24 am

gravel wrote:
I have no idea what you folk are talking about.

Sweet knives!

cheers
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williamcharles

williamcharles

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 3:23 pm

I've got to agree about the convex grind. I've got a Fallkniven F1 and it always gets the job done for me and I hardly ever have to touch it up. A few strokes on my belt if I'm in the field and its good to go. I made a sanding block with rubber from a mouse pad glued to one side and leather glued to the other side. The block has thin slits cut into the ends so I can slip sandpaper into one of them and stretch it over the rubber and slip the other end into the other slot. The leather is dressed with green polishing compound. A few strokes on the side with the sandpaper followed by a few on the leather and it's done. That's how easy a convex edge is to maintain in the field but then...you supporters of the convex edge already know that. I put a convex grind on one of my Moras and it's a champ too.
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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 5:16 pm

So - the green is the perfect compound for that setup all right. What grit paper do you use? I've heard everything from 600 through 2000. I ended up using 1200 mostly.

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williamcharles

williamcharles

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 7:46 pm

I carry 600 and 2000.
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i.keenum

i.keenum

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 11:39 pm

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/527452201-Collectable-handmade-Damascus-hunting-knife-F0085-fixed-blade-plain-edge-full-tang-stag-handle-leather-sheath-wholesalers.html

I think that a long tampered deer antler handle like this one would make a good pair to that second blade.
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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 11:51 pm

ik - great minds think alike. A friend sent me a HUGE skinner that has a Whitetail antler handle just like that...so I'm making a HUGE caper to go with it...handle? - a BLACKtail antler...and when done I'm re-making the sheath on the one he sent to fit both knives at once. It will be AWESOME.

But for these...I want to do a more traditional Nordic handle design. But I still have a large crown and two other pieces of Blacktail antler I plan to use on future knife projects. So who knows what will happen.

Check out some of the images on this google page:

http://www.google.com/search?q=scandinavian+knives&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7LENN&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=q1PdT6-1JtGA6QGZh6mMCw&ved=0CIMBEPwFKAE&biw=1311&bih=595

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i.keenum

i.keenum

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySun Jun 17, 2012 5:10 pm

What about a mostly briar handle with a little plateau showing as a thumb grip and the part of the antler where it meets the skull as a end cap? Brass spacers?
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Kyle Weiss

Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptySun Jun 17, 2012 5:21 pm

How about a Damascus/briar butterfly knife? cheers
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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 1:43 am

The 'crown' antler that you described is a classic treatment, and I do have a piece that could be used. But to me thre are two issue with your design idea, and this is personal.

1) To me, briar is not a hard enough wood...meaning that it scars and dents and all quite easily for something like a knife handle. A pipe...sure. No problem. But a tool handle, no. The idea about having the plateaux form thumb ridges is really quite brilliant though. Excellent in all regards. Maybe for an 'art knife' the concept would hold up...but a working blade? No. And these Nordic style blades are working blades. They are not of a high enough grade to be considered anywhere close to 'art'.

But, I'll certainly file away the idea of the plateaux thumb ridges for future use. That's way cool.

2) The thing with the antler crown, again a personal thing. Crown handled knives are usually those that have some assiciation with the animals they come from (it's traditional) as in 'Mountain Man' type knives...big Canadian Skinners, Bowies...that kind of thing. A crown is a BIG chunk of antler, both in actual size and in 'presence'. These Nordic blades are rather small by most standards and it would be rather like having a Louisville Slugger form the handle for a BIC pen. The crown that I have will likely go on something between 7" and 9" in length and about 2" in height. The resulting knife will end up being between 12" and 14" overall. Of course, I could always procure some crown...it's certainly out there to be had. But I'm cheap. AND broke. Not a good combination.

And speaking of brass spacers...you gave me an idea. I was thinking of why one goes with different metals...brass for a warm color...nickel silver for cold...and started wondering what copper would look like. I gotta say, I LOVE copper. The only issue being keeping it up. If you want to see how amazingly cool copper can look on a pipe...go to Downie's pipe site and look around a bit. It can be stunningly beautifull if done well.

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Fishfuzz

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 2:42 am

A patina on there might actually be very interesting as well - especially if there were other colors to complement the resulting change.
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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 2:58 am

I think they make the fiber spacers, the ones that usually account for the red color in a handle, in a sort of jade green. That would do well with both the copper and most wood tones. It would look really cool with ivory micarta...but that stuff picks up other colors too much and would likely smear over time. But there are a host of 'gemstone' items that might look good...I've have to check into what's now available ar Janz Supply.

Good thought.

Edit: Got it...perfect. Malachite...swirls of light jade into very dark blackish green. It comes as scales. But I've worked with the white turquoise before and you just cut it into handle sized coins. I'm thinking the Malachite would look good with copper and black paper micarta spacers. I don't think it should be too hard to find some sheetstock copper...or I can drop by Homee Depot's plumbing dept. I get lots of copper there.

Edit 2: Ouch. Janz price on sheetstock copper is $25! So much for that option.

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 2:50 am

I got to looking at my largest piece of crown antler this morning when I first flipped on the lights in my shop, while filling one of my Oom Pauls with a new Turkish Cigar blend...and after looking some more, measuring five things ten times and doing some hard core pondering...ended up by cutting it into two pieces. It may not work, but I'm going to try. The issue is actually one of ensuring the finished pieces will fit their slender sheaths. This entails a bunch of sub issues as well but I ended up looking at several hundred nordic knife photos via google and saw some very interesting things. One of them was that for a Leuku handle it's very common for some regions to have an extreme flair at the butt (so the knife won't fly off somewhere?) and using an antler crown, while quite 'rustic' seems to be one way its done. The Leuku is a general camp knife and is usually between 4" - 7" in blade length...the longer ones being more used for hacking brush, etc.

I aslo found that double sets of these nordic blades are common and contain the Leuku and a smaller, finer bladed knife...exactly like the other blade I chose. Luck? Providence? Just plain weird? Who knows. One thing though...it appears that I chose a very traditional pairing. So the 'second' piece of antler may just be fitted to the small blade...if I can get it ti fit.

I'll try to take some initial photos tomorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 10:23 pm

So here are some progress photos...I'll add comments as I'm able. In the middle of getting dinner ready right now.


The first comment is that measuring everything is critical. ONCE I went ahead and just made a knife...and it didn't even come close to fitting in the sheath. That's when I learned how to make a good scabbard from wood, etc. This is a shot of how deeply the blade fits into the sheath. All things start with that. I made a file mark on the tang to show where the top of the sheath came. The sheath will get a two-tone coat of Feibing's dye...dark brown and mahogany. So this is the start of what I'll call "Kinfe A".


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject001


The dimension other than depth that's critical is girth (and shape). Since I want the tang to go to a specific depth into the antler (that will form the end of the handle) that will require that the antler fit down into the sheath to a depth that will allow that. I know...it seems really obvious...but knowing that I needed to check and carve the anter to size as one of the first steps took me a while. The butt is the first thing I need to know the dimenstion of, as that dictates how much is left on the forend part to cut wood and spacers fo BTW: in this series of photos the pieces are set up on a sheet of black paper micarta. This is the stuff that the spacers will be cut from...first rectangles, then drilled for the center hole, then rounded to match the handle contours...taking care to allow overage as the final shape will be performed with a belt sander.


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject005


Close-up of the antler section for the handle. A nice trick I thought of while scanning through some of the 100 or so photos of knives like this I saved into a file for ideas...since the front of the antler piece has to fit the sheath exactly, and thus has to be filed to shape...I thought that doing a pattern or design instead of tapering the size up into the end would be a nice touch. Perhaps I'll enhance the design, which at this point is just a circle around the antler with a half-round shape on the side and a kind of wave on the other, with some added scrim work.


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject009


This photo shows additional work on the antler, which is rather hard to see, but accounts for maybe a quarter inch in diameter. It also approximates where the antler will fit in relation to the blade and tang...and...shows the tools needed to get there. The red handled files are Japanese, Iwasaki 'carving files' the teeth of which are chemically etched for sharpness. If used with a light hand they cut an amazing amount of stock with each and stroke and they leave the surface smooth...very smooth. The large rifflers are files, not rasps and do well with work of this size. Um...they come as a double-sided piece, but I usually cut them in two and mount each side in a handle. I sent the other sides of these two to a friend. Seems like a good use for 'em.


Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject020

Rough...very rough at this point. Here's the assembled pieces that I turned out today. The heavy brass butt cap (with a tab on the bottom that might or might not stay...for a ring or lanyard), the antler section of the handle...the chunk of brass that you can see the oval on is obviously for the front of the antler...all were done this morning in a couple of hours. The blade (safely wrapped in heavy tape) is set very approximately at the depth it will be at when done. There there are some examples of the black paper micarta and red fiber spacers. I have some 1 mm and 2 mm brass sheet stock on the way, one size of which will likely find it's way into the design as spacers. Then on the far right there's the guard (or at least a preliminary version) as it may be OK...but may not. You can see the shape of the blade marked on it...Rhombus...interesting. I saw on another forum where a guy was whining about how hard it was to get the shape right...we'll see!

Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject012

So now we go into a bit into 'Knife B'. In the background is a large block of Honduran Rosewood, a bit of which might make it into the handle. Then there's the unpolished piece of nickel silver cut from barstock and drilled, filed and detailed to fit the width of the tang and the curved that goes from the front to the back of the guard. Of course you can see the large taped up blade...then the star of the show. One of the new guys from Oregon mentioned that I should think about having part of one handle be an antler crown...and I put a lot of thought to that. So...know that the antler shown in 'Knife A' is one half of the crown piece that I had...and the crown here is the other half. In a fit of "Wildass Knife Abandon" I had a major 'WTF' moment and sawed the thing in two. Of course I wouldn't have done it if I didn't think BOTH pieces had the potential to be pretty amazing additions to the projects. And let me say...the crown is one heck of a piece of sculpture. (skip to next photo now)

Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject024

More comments will be added on Friday...but you get the idea.

Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject027

And these were added just for fun. Last week's projects. I like the contrast in materials.

Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... NordicProject032

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Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... D6bddf10Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... 29400910Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... 114e6110Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Ddb39b10Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Cf77ce10Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Dd692012Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Cowboy13


Last edited by Blackhorse on Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fishfuzz

Fishfuzz

Age : 45
Location : Oregon
Registration date : 2012-05-24

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 12:21 am

Fascinating work. Keep us posted on developments.
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i.keenum

i.keenum

Age : 30
Location : coast of mississippi
Registration date : 2011-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 10:23 am

Love how those tampers look like little swords and ancient weapons.
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wintermute



Age : 44
Location : Long Island, NY
Registration date : 2009-04-21

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 4:49 pm

Be careful with using copper. You'll want some sort of dielectric material (micarta, vulcanite, plastic, etc.) between the copper and the steel so they don't form a battery - oxidizing your steel!
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Blackhorse
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Blackhorse

Age : 72
Location : Portland, Oregon Area
Registration date : 2010-10-23

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PostSubject: Re: Help me design 2 Nordic knives...   Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 11:36 pm

re: tampers...I've done quite a few 'sword tampers' and the edge, where appropriate, is sharp...good for scraping cake from a bowl.

re: the 'battery knife'...I was hoping to set up a little LED and have it like a nite lite! lol Seriously...thanks for the tip. I'll be carefull to put any copper out of reach of any steel. If used as a spacer material it would be sandwiched with micarta or the fiber spacer material. If a copper spacer went onto an area in which the tang went through, I could also widen the hope in the copper and 'line' it with something like a rubber "O" ring or a collar or something...now that I know.

A question though...what electrons would flow in a situation like that? Wouldn't some have to flow in a battery situation...or would that describe a circuit instead? If the copper/iron duo just make the iron/steel attract free O2 or whatever from the atmosphere to form the oxide...how would that happen? Inquiring minds, etc.

And...could I somehow 'amp' the thing up to the point where it would impart a shock. Well, maybe that would take a knife the size of Manhattan! lol

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Founding BoB Bombers Squadron Commander, Un-Ret
Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Puffy

Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... D6bddf10Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... 29400910Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... 114e6110Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Ddb39b10Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Cf77ce10Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Dd692012Nordic - Help me design 2 Nordic knives... Cowboy13
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