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 This too shall pass

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i.keenum

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Age : 27
Location : coast of mississippi
Registration date : 2011-06-12

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Best off luck hope the best for you. What is the cause of them?
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the rev

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Age : 51
Location : Oak View CA
Registration date : 2012-10-08

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:42 pm

a lot of people say a lot of things, and the truth is, with the most common form of stones they just don't know. I had drs tell me it was too much calcium, others not enough calcium, others too much oxolate. Then one told me, "look, truth is we just don't know, some people make stones, but you need calcium and oxolate, best we can tell you is to drink lots of water to keep your urine diluted, and keep the stones smaller"

All of the different diets I have tried make no difference. Ultimately, I need to drink lots more water, and unfortunately water with hops and malted barley doesn't count

rev
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Vito

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Location : Earth
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Causes of kidney stones   Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:13 pm

i.keenum wrote:
Best off luck hope the best for you. What is the cause of them?
What Brothah Rev said. There are at least nine different types of stones, and each of them has a different cause. The type of stone can be identified after the fact if you can catch it when you pee it out and get it to the lab for analysis. However, sometimes the stones are of variegated composition, which means they combine more than one type, which makes the cause even tougher to pin down.

By far the most common kinds of stones are calcium stones, or more precisely, calcium oxalate stones. But even with those, the actual cause of their formation isn't well understood. They're more common in men than in women, but no one knows why. As we've already noted, stones can occur at any age.

One suspected principal factor is diet, but nothing is conclusive. It seems likely that a diet with foods high in oxalates and calcium poses a higher risk of forming calcium oxalate stones, but there are many possible mitigating factors. For example, a diet that is also high in citrates, potassium, and magnesium can mitigate the formation of stones. The calcium binds with the citrates, and the potassium and magnesium binds with the oxalates.

Everyone seems to agree that sufficient hydration is the most important factor in preventing stones. As nearly as I have been able to tell, "sufficient hydration" is indicated by the following conditions:
  • You evacuate at least 2 liters of urine per day.
  • The urine is clear (very little color).
  • The urine has very little odor.
That's a better indication (for me, anyway) than blanket statements about how much water I should drink. Besides, I don't especially enjoy drinking water in large quantities. I get most of my liquids in the form of tea (mostly golds, greens, oolongs, and whites...IOW, teas that have undergone little or no oxidation). There are conflicting reports on the effects of tea on stone formation, and a lot of it is misinformation.

For example, black tea is reported to be "high" in oxalates...but relative to what? It's still lower in oxalates than many "healthy" foods, and none of the studies I've seen that identified oxalate levels in tea said anything about the amount of bioavailable oxalates...that is, the amount that your body will actually absorb.

As always, I've had to sort through a mountain of mythology to find credible information. Much of the stuff that gets mindlessly repeated on Internet blogs is noise repeated by lazy parrots who never bother to verify the stuff they spew. Anyone who wants actual information is going to have to dig a little deeper.

the rev wrote:
...I need to drink lots more water, and unfortunately water with hops and malted barley doesn't count
There's the hell of it, right there! Laughing



Last edited by Vito on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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huffelpuff

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Age : 47
Location : Laramie, WY
Registration date : 2011-12-10

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:39 pm

Feel better soon V!

Jim
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the rev

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Age : 51
Location : Oak View CA
Registration date : 2012-10-08

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:56 am

how are you going brother?

rev
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cds43

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Location : Hendersonville, NC
Registration date : 2012-09-05

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:33 pm

the rev wrote:
the worst one I had they gave me a shot of demeral and toridal which did nothing, a shot of morphine which did nothing, and then a shot of dilaudid which helped, the second shot of dilaudid put me to sleep

worst pain ever

rev

Wasted a couple of years of my life shooting this drug. Brings back many good and bad memories. Hope you get rid of the pain.
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the rev

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Age : 51
Location : Oak View CA
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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:01 pm

cds43 wrote:
the rev wrote:
the worst one I had they gave me a shot of demeral and toridal which did nothing, a shot of morphine which did nothing, and then a shot of dilaudid which helped, the second shot of dilaudid put me to sleep

worst pain ever

rev

Wasted a couple of years of my life shooting this drug. Brings back many good and bad memories. Hope you get rid of the pain.

glad you kicked brother

rev
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Vito

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Location : Earth
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:02 pm

the rev wrote:
how are you going brother?

rev
Sorry for the delay in replying, bro'. I've had some complications. I was pretty much out of commission yesterday with back pain. I have some disk problems in my lumbar region, and it seems that all that writhing on the floor might have aggravated that stuff. Everything's connected, y'know. Wink

As for the stone, it's quiescent right now. I haven't had another Big Pain™ attack since last Wednesday, and though I can feel it down there, it's not causing me any serious discomfort. I'm not keen on the idea of going back to Pain City, but in a way I wish the sumbitch would just move the hell outa there and get it over with.

I'm keeping the minor ongoing discomfort under control with whopping doses of ibuprofen (800 mg. every 8 hours...which is whopping for me). The doc says it will reduce inflammation of the ureter and make it easier for the stone to pass, but so far it seems to be staying put. I'm taking in at least 4 liters of fluids per day, but the little bastidge doesn't seem to want to try to clear that last hurdle into the bladder. Dayum!

I have an appointment to see a urologist on Monday, which I'll keep if the stone hasn't passed by then. I intend to ask him about Flomax (tamsulosin), but I'm not sure I'll be able to take it. The drug is contraindicated for patients who are allergic to sulfa...which I am. But it won't hurt to ask.

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the rev

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Age : 51
Location : Oak View CA
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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:22 pm

sorry man, and going in to the holidays with that still weighing over you... such a bummer

hope it all comes out quickly brother

rev
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:02 pm

the rev wrote:
sorry man, and going in to the holidays with that still weighing over you... such a bummer...
Yeah...we'll be heading over to my brother-in-law's home for Thanksgiving dinner. I won't be drinking any wine, in case I have to pop some oxycodone capsules if the Big Pain™ hits. And I'll go out and lock myself in the car so no one has to witness the spectacle. As you well know, it ain' pretty.

But I'm choosing not to go down Bummer Lane, and focus on my blessings. Here's one of them; I'm looking forward to cracking this tin of Flying Dutchman that's been hanging around since 1969:


I've seen some pretty gruesome reviews of that counterfeit they've been selling in a pouch, but this stuff is the original, and it's prolly pretty good by now. I figure I've paid enough pain dues lately to earn a special smoke.

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DrT999

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Age : 59
Location : Piedmont of North Carolina
Registration date : 2011-08-31

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:35 pm

Vito wrote:
I'm looking forward to cracking this tin of Flying Dutchman that's been hanging around since 1969:


I'm sure we're all hoping it's in excellent condition!
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Jers

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Location : Ireland
Registration date : 2012-07-14

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:04 am

Vito - I hope things go quick and easy for you brother. It sounds truly hellish.

BTW it sounds like you were prepared to try anything short of a stick of dynamite to rid yourself of constipation!

Best wishes brother.

Jers

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gravel

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Age : 43
Location : Oregon
Registration date : 2011-12-07

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:07 am

DrT999 wrote:
Vito wrote:
I'm looking forward to cracking this tin of Flying Dutchman that's been hanging around since 1969:


I'm sure we're all hoping it's in excellent condition!

Looking forward to you cracking that tin!
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Vito

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Location : Earth
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:21 am

It starts.

I awoke at 01:53 with what felt like the Gas Pains From Hell™. By 02:02 it was clear that this is the prelude to another Big Pain™ event, and — recalling my doctor's advice that it's best to take the pain meds before the Big Pain™ sets in — I popped an oxycodone. Two minutes later, the pain was ramping up so fast that I thought, what the hell...might as well pop another one. I guess this is where I get to test the magical properties of the legendary oxycodone.

I've got the Zojirushi water boiler fired up so I can make some Jasmine Dragon Pearl tea, a few bottles of SoBe Lifewater as backup, and I'm sequestered in my studio (airtight double doors, 8-inch thick solid concrete walls) so Mrs. Vito and the Kidz don't have to hear the deranged mutant alien rantings, and it looks like I'm headed for the final showdown.

What comes next won't involve enough rationality to entrust myself to the use of a keyboard and a public forum. See youse guys on the other side.

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DrT999

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Age : 59
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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:56 am

Best of luck! may the 'event' be short!
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:45 am

Finally got rid of the doggone stone. It passed on its own...no need for surgical intervention, thankfully. cheers

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Jers

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Location : Ireland
Registration date : 2012-07-14

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:58 am

Very pleased for you brother! cheers

A truly horrible experience - I'm glad it's at an end for you.

Fraternally

Jers
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:32 am

Your such a puss. Like a tiny rock in the dick warrants three pages ...

Very Happy



But you got to admit it's funny afterward. You expect Omak Lakes balancing rock.. or at least a Moeraki Boulder and out comes this BB.
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alfredo_buscatti

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Age : 62
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-17

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:01 am

So glad that you are rid of this!
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DrT999

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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:20 am

I'm sure you're glad this is over! May there be no complications
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Briar Spirit

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Age : 49
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:16 am

Thank the heavens I have managed to only ever have very small stones passing myself with little more than moderately painful discomfort, yeah okay, it hurts and there was some stomach curling and floor hugging, but nothing as painful as yours was, very pleased for you that it's out, odd isn't it, you look back over the time it took to come out and you feel a bit of a wally for all the fuss ya made, wasn't so irrational whilst it was passing though huh. Very pleased for you that the pain is over, heal well, hope that baccy was good and powerful. Smile
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:31 am

Yeah, pain is a strange thing. It's not like smells, sounds, tastes, or sights. When we recall pain, we can only recall the fact THAT it hurt, but not how it hurt. Good thing, too.

I think the pain was actually most intense in the second BigPain event. The first one was spookier because I had no idea what was happening. But by the second attack at least it didn't carry the added freak-out of not knowing what was causing it, and it was just a matter of toughing it out...er, if you call screaming your way through a two-hour worm dance "toughing it out".

But nope—I don't feel the least bit wussy about it. At least no more so than I do about any involuntary reaction. In fact, there was a part of my conscious mind that observed the whole thing without judgment and knows that the pain was in charge, not me.

Anyhow, thanks, brethren, for all your kind words. Even you, pb.

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the rev

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Age : 51
Location : Oak View CA
Registration date : 2012-10-08

PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:36 am

well...

its not over. The stone is now sitting in your bladder. It is going to be uncomfortable til it comes out. You will feel like you need to pee all the time. My advice, drink lots and lots and lots of water, you want to give this thing every opportunity to come out. And you will actually feel the need to pee worse when you bladder is empty as the jagged edges of the stone press against the walls of your bladder. Strain your urine if you can, then when it comes out you will have something for the doctors to examine and see if its a "normal" stone or a less common one. Some of the less common ones respond well to medication.

glad you got this far, the next bit isn't anywhere near as traumatic

rev
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:58 pm

rev:

No...it's gone, bro'. Outa there. I don't know when or how, but the urologist took X-rays to confirm it. No more symptoms, and no more stone. I don't know how or when it got out without my knowing it, but the films don't lie. I was sure I'd know when that bad boy squeezed itself through the dickular tube, but maybe it happened while I was oxycodonized. I wasn't feeling much of anything on that stuff.

The dick doc also showed me the CT scan they took when I first went to the hospital ER, moving through the cross-sections from top to bottom, starting above the kidney and moving downward step by step through the bladder. There was no question where the 5.07mm stone was. (Size "T" shot is 5.08mm, or 0.20 inches. A BB is 4.57mm, or 0.18 inches.)

I asked the doc whether it was likely that I could piss out the stone without knowing it. He said, "Yes...it does happen." A friend of mine who had a stone 25 years ago said he didn't feel anything when he pissed out the stone. Go figure.

Too bad there's no way to know when the stone began to form, or how long it took to accrete. In any case, it's noteworthy that at no time during my interaction with any of the "health care professionals" I saw since the dickstone first made its presence known did any of them discuss prevention. Perhaps they're interested only in treating it once it shows up, but for my part I'd prefer not to go through that ordeal again.

So, I'm eliminating all high oxalate foods from my regular diet—principally spinach, certain raw nuts (almonds are very high in oxalates...and were a favorite Vitonian snack), and various other kinds of chomp compounds. Anyone who is prone to getting kidney stones (especially calcium oxalate stones, which are the most common) can find some resources at http://www.ohf.org/diet.html; but there are many others.

And no more taking vitamins/food supplements with tea...at least not the calcium supplement. Turns out, calcium supplements should only be taken with meals, so the calcium will bind with stuff that comes out in the intestines. Taking calcium between meals increases the chance that it will bind with stuff that comes out in the kidneys. And taking calcium with black tea (which is relatively high in oxalates) is...er, unwise. Rolling Eyes

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the rev

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PostSubject: Re: This too shall pass   Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:04 pm

a 5 mil stone would be really hard to pass through the urethra without knowing, you must have a huge urethra

Smile

the 5 mil stone I had (most of the others had been around 2 or 3) was definitely felt coming out. In fact the chunks from the 10 mil stone that they exploded were all all very noticeable as well. I am happy for you brother. I hope your diet thing works for you, didn't work at all for me. My current urologist said... best thing you could do is drink lots of water, all of our other theories just don't seem to be right.

rev
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