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 What to do???

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Simple Man

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Age : 56
Location : Atlanta-ish
Registration date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:31 pm

So, my health insurance is raising the price of my premium once again because of my "smoker status". I'm already paying close to a hundred dollars a month for the privilege of smoking. On my retirement income, I can't hardly afford to pay another increase. Even though I smoke an average of 5 - 12 bowls a month, it doesn't matter to them, they see me the same as a cigarette smoker who smokes several times a day. And, if I were to declare myself a nonsmoker and get caught smoking, they will drop my insurance altogether.

So, I'm not sure what I'm going to have to do. It sure must have been nice living in an America where people were free to do whatever they chose to do. This "Big Brother" society is NOT for me.

Anyone else having to deal with this stuff?
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Rob_In_MO

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Age : 44
Location : Park Hills, MO
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:35 pm

Simple Man wrote:
Anyone else having to deal with this stuff?

Yep, we have the 'Family' plan and because of me our monthly premium is higher too. It sucks, but we gotta have insurance. To me it's really not worth taking the chance of getting caught - and then dropped... Mad
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:38 pm

Claim tobacco as an addiction. Now you have a pre exisiting condition and cannot be dropped. Isn't that what Obama care promised? Tell them you quit, but occasionally have addiction relapses. Besides, what are they gonna do, drug test you? You don't kick an addict out of rehab for failing a drug test Smile

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Simple Man

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Age : 56
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:40 pm

Rob_In_MO wrote:
Simple Man wrote:
Anyone else having to deal with this stuff?

Yep, we have the 'Family' plan and because of me our monthly premium is higher too. It sucks, but we gotta have insurance. To me it's really not worth taking the chance of getting caught - and then dropped... Mad

Yea, me either. I don't know if I could even get insured again with my past health history. Their goal seems to be to force people to quit smoking or get dropped. I'm really getting disgusted with the way the country just kind of regulates compliance. I seriously grew up about a hundred years too late. lol
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Rob_In_MO

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:42 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Claim tobacco as an addiction. Now you have a pre exisiting condition and cannot be dropped.

All joking aside, I can honestly see this one coming.
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Simple Man

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Age : 56
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:44 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Claim tobacco as an addiction. Now you have a pre exisiting condition and cannot be dropped. Isn't that what Obama care promised? Tell them you quit, but occasionally have addiction relapses. Besides, what are they gonna do, drug test you? You don't kick an addict out of rehab for failing a drug test Smile

They DO require a blood test a couple of times a year, so? I don't know. This insurance is unlike most I have heard of. We have health coaches, weight requirements and mandatory participation in wellness programs. If you're lucky enough to not have this kind of intrusion yet, feel fortunate. I think it's just a matter of time for most people.


Last edited by Simple Man on Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetlejazz

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Location : Finland
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:48 pm

Goddamn nanny-privately-owned-insurance-companies. Mad
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Simple Man

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:50 pm

beetlejazz wrote:
Goddamn nanny-privately-owned-insurance-companies. Mad

Yep. Sucks big time. Mad
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Rob_In_MO

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:53 pm

Jack must be insured through 'Gestapo Insurance Co.' They're kinda like the Borg, so be prepared one and all. Coming to an insurance company near you.

You will be assimilated! affraid


Last edited by Rob_In_MO on Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Simple Man

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:54 pm

Rob_In_MO wrote:
Jack must be insured through 'Gestapo Insurance Co.' They're kinda like the Borg, so be prepared one and all. Coming to a company near you.

You will be assimilated! affraid

Actually, BCBS... so yea, be prepared.
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bosun1

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Location : fly over country
Registration date : 2012-10-23

PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:02 am

Of course you are still free. You have the choice of bending over or doing without insurance. We need a faster than light drive so we can emigrate if we don't like the conditions in the country we're living in. I'm glad I can only expect to live less than the '3 score and 10' per the bible...bastiches..
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:39 am

Rob_In_MO wrote:
Puff Daddy wrote:
Claim tobacco as an addiction. Now you have a pre exisiting condition and cannot be dropped.

All joking aside, I can honestly see this one coming.

I wasn't joking. Screw em. If they want to be like that, find a way to screw with them.

Honestly though, I've never heard of any insurer who requires bi annual blood tests for basic health insurance.

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Hermit

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:33 am

Simple Man wrote:
So, my health insurance is raising the price of my premium once again because of my "smoker status".
It's written into Obamacare
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:30 am

Hmmm... I smell the next big class action lawsuit against Big Tobacco. Hundreds of thousands claim addiction, sue for the cost of increased premiums forced on them by Big Insurance, caused by Big Tobacco corporations past practice that coerced them into incurable addiction.

Big Tobacco counters by secretly funding a second class action suit that produces hundreds of thousands of tobacco addicts claiming practices of descrimination against the disabled by Big Insurance. Big Insurance sues Fed for forcing higher rates, government ends up funding healthcare of smokers.

Light up boys, yer healthcare will be free Smile

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Simple Man

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:58 am

Puff Daddy wrote:
Rob_In_MO wrote:
Puff Daddy wrote:
Claim tobacco as an addiction. Now you have a pre exisiting condition and cannot be dropped.

All joking aside, I can honestly see this one coming.

I wasn't joking. Screw em. If they want to be like that, find a way to screw with them.

Honestly though, I've never heard of any insurer who requires bi annual blood tests for basic health insurance.

Yep, it's one of their catches for a lower premium to employees... of course they do it for "our benefit". They check for cholesterol and other health problems, changes; well that's what they say. We can get the blood test from our regular physician, but they require a copy of the results. We also have a health clinic exclusively for those insured, gym classes, free prescriptions, etc. But it all comes at a cost, which is basically, you surrender your life and decision making over to them. All of this started VERY subtly, just a few small changes here and there without any changes to the premium...

But still, what I pay for insurance compared to the average person, it would be insane for me to drop it... There is no way I could afford the kind of health care coverage I'm getting here.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:20 am

you can't cheat the blood test, only time works. Also

The whole tobacco alkaloids found in tobacco smoke are not found in nicotine replacement therapy.

if these are planned instead of random you should be ok by going with out a pipe the prior 7 days.. in heavy smokers (cigs) it can take up to 30 days to clear the system..
the big problem with this strategy: in the event of injury/illness you won't have time to detox and will be cancelled for fraud.




Side note.. insurance, as private entity, should be able to dictate the terms of the services they will offer.. good or bad..
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Simple Man

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:35 am

puros_bran wrote:
you can't cheat the blood test, only time works. Also

The whole tobacco alkaloids found in tobacco smoke are not found in nicotine replacement therapy.

if these are planned instead of random you should be ok by going with out a pipe the prior 7 days.. in heavy smokers (cigs) it can take up to 30 days to clear the system..
the big problem with this strategy: in the event of injury/illness you won't have time to detox and will be cancelled for fraud.




Side note.. insurance, as private entity, should be able to dictate the terms of the services they will offer.. good or bad..

Yea, I guess... still sucks though. Laughing
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:45 am

puros_bran wrote:
Side note.. insurance, as private entity, should be able to dictate the terms of the services they will offer.. good or bad..

Yep. And the grocers should have the right to withhold food from whomever they deem unneedy of it. Gunmakers should have the right to withhold guns and ammo from anyone they deem unbecoming of gun ownership. Private universities should withhold education from anyone they deem to be not of the right mindset, social standing or political orientation. After all, this country is based on the rights of the moneyholders and priviledged to pull the strings and dole out as they see fit, not the rights of the common man to prosper as he feels is best for him. The monetary plan and social engineering desires of the insurance corporations is far more important than any petty civil rights that the common citizen may feel they should have. This is America, after all.

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Slartibartfast

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:45 am

beetlejazz wrote:
Goddamn nanny-privately-owned-insurance-companies. Mad



Razz Razz Razz



Nice one Beetlejazz. cheers
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Simple Man

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:52 am

Puff Daddy wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
Side note.. insurance, as private entity, should be able to dictate the terms of the services they will offer.. good or bad..

Yep. And the grocers should have the right to withhold food from whomever they deem unneedy of it. Gunmakers should have the right to withhold guns and ammo from anyone they deem unbecoming of gun ownership. Private universities should withhold education from anyone they deem to be not of the right mindset, social standing or political orientation. After all, this country is based on the rights of the moneyholders and priviledged to pull the strings and dole out as they see fit, not the rights of the common man to prosper as he feels is best for him. The monetary plan and social engineering desires of the insurance corporations is far more important than any petty civil rights that the common citizen may feel they should have. This is America, after all.

Heh, listen to this guy... he still thinks citizens have rights. How quaint. I remember believing that, now I know that the government has my best interest in mind and will make all of my choices. Can't wait till they start choosing career paths for our kids so they don't have to burden themselves with career choices and all that. The governments way is SO much better than individual choice.

I kid. Cool

It's the only way I know how to deal with this changing America. Rolling Eyes
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:57 am

But remember Simple Man, you live in a free country. Fear socialism, fear it! It will take away your freedom! Laughing

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:56 am

doesn't matter how much you type it pdiddy.

Private industry is private. The government is confiscating it illegally..
if it was something you owned you would be irrate. Look how pissed off everyone is simply because people using a known carcinogen are being charged a higher rate to be covered in case of illness. yet somehow when it's someone else's endeavor it becomes okay to mandate to them what they can and can not do with their money, industry, and livelyhood.

Anywho I have to nap.. call me an immoral dreamer or whatever. It's all good.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:37 pm

I'll call you a Whatever, I know you're not immoral.

I find the flaw to your argument in the core of the issue, and that core is not about private property or ownership.

The law says you must buy insurance. By that very decree, the insurance industry is now a public venue, with mandatory participation as dictated by law, even though the individual companies involved may be privately held. The companies in question make up their own policies and pricing guidelines in collusion with the medical industry, and everyone involved makes huge profits at the expense of the consumer who is forced to pay and has no say at all in how the money is managed. They simply force their product on you without representation, and you must pay. Because of this, and this alone, the industry should be absorbed by the government to be managed to the benefit of the people, for the people, with a no profit management practice and should be funded through taxation based on income, and at a rate only to cover expenses.

Just like the DMV. You must do it, you have no choice, to make it anything other than a public non profit system is nothing less than raketeering.

Trying to justify raketeering in the name of personal property don't fly, Whatever.

Nighty night.


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jefe1037

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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:13 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
I'll call you a Whatever, I know you're not immoral.

I find the flaw to your argument in the core of the issue, and that core is not about private property or ownership.

The law says you must buy insurance. By that very decree, the insurance industry is now a public venue, with mandatory participation as dictated by law, even though the individual companies involved may be privately held. The companies in question make up their own policies and pricing guidelines in collusion with the medical industry, and everyone involved makes huge profits at the expense of the consumer who is forced to pay and has no say at all in how the money is managed. They simply force their product on you without representation, and you must pay. Because of this, and this alone, the industry should be absorbed by the government to be managed to the benefit of the people, for the people, with a no profit management practice and should be funded through taxation based on income, and at a rate only to cover expenses.

Just like the DMV. You must do it, you have no choice, to make it anything other than a public non profit system is nothing less than raketeering.

Trying to justify raketeering in the name of personal property don't fly, Whatever.

Nighty night.


A few points, if I may:

The medical industry more often that not is NOT in collusion with the insurance industry, from what I have come to learn from many conversation with several different doctors. The insurance company's number crunchers pre-set the payout for medical procedures with very little input from the AMA, and once one of the "big boys" decide that a doc is getting too much money for, say, a wart removal, and they decide the payout shrinks, then the smaller companies follow suit. So a patient pays the copay, and the doc submits whatever bill he sees fit to the insurance company, whether he charges 5 bucks or 5 hundred, and they look in their manual and when it says 75 bucks, they send 75 bucks, no matter what the doctor needs to pay the rent (aside: these docs love to moan about money, but they do so over a hundred dollar a head dinner that they aren't paying for anyway) Just a little food for thought.

I agree with you about the idea of a "non profit" idea behind the insurance system, but a more accurate comparison would be the Utilities. this public/private concept has worked pretty well as far as my experience. I don't feel like I am getting fleeced when my bills come each month for gas and electricity. Some subsidies have been deemed necessary to keep market fluctuations from skyrocketing our bills, which in turn creates an obligation to keep the lights on. Some people use more electricity, some use less. the price should be adjusted based on actual usage with a "base rate" and then for excessive use, a higher rate.

slide on over to medical insurance. Wellness checkups, preventative care are the "base rate" equivalents (actually people should be ENCOURAGED to have preventative care. give me a tax break for getting a flu shot because I kept my healthy ass out of the emergency room this winter (rant: drink some damn soup. throw it up. rinse, repeat I saw a grown man acting like a sally going to the emergency room with what sounded like a bad cold, I don't even think it was the flu based on his functionality. that's right, in the emergency room standing in the way of a guy who was having a heart attack. I was there because my wife was having pre-term labor. I wanted to punch this guy in the face)). I don't think we should punish people for medical conditions, or raise rates for women because they might get pregnant, but if you make life choices that cause higher rates of disease or injury, then you should have to pay more for insurance.

The slippery slope: Smoking makes sense to me as far as charging us more, but for what other things would we be paying a higher rate? is this really still the right to choose, or is this a way to keep the sheep in line?

Oh, and Cops and Firemen should have free medical coverage of 100% of everything. when they are healthy, they can keep us safe.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: What to do???   Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:14 pm

The 'law' requiring you to purchase health insurance by federal mandate is illegal. Trying to nationalize of that is a joke!

besides nationalized health care and nationalized health insurance are two totally separate things. Not even related to one another except they both have health in there name... It's bullshit and everyone involved knows it is.
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