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 Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act

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MisterE
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PostSubject: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:04 pm

There was another thread around here with this link, but I thought I might put it here for those that might have missed it. This is serious business guys.

Write Congress to oppose the Tobaaco Tax Equity Act, S. 194: A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide tax rate parity among all tobacco products. In other words, pipe tobacco will be taxed at the same rate as cigarettes, chew, and RYO tobacco. Believe me, that'll seriously hurt.

It only takes a minute to fill out.

https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s194

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Last edited by MisterE on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:10 pm

Oh heck NO!!!!

Fair and Equitable taxation... Thats what (According to pdiddy) An overwhelming landslide majority of America voted for.. You people need to hush up and pay your share!
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Northern Neil

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:49 pm

That is what happened in Canada.
Please do not let it happen in the USA as well, then I will have no where to buy cheap tobacco from Sad
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:08 pm

I'd agree with PB except that this isn't an equity tax, it's a punishment tax. Cigarettes were hit with huge punishment taxes because, as it's stated, they cause enormous damage to the community through escalated medical costs and they are dangerously addictive. Make no bones about it, taxation on cigarettes was about deterrent, and about fiscal remedy for the sins of past generations. The tax goes away if everyone stops smoking, there is no means left to collect it. meanwhile, it takes so long for cigarettes to go away that The State gets to collect a fat load of punitive cash until they disappear completely (though that money probably never actually goes back into the hands of those whom were originally allegedly harmed financially from the escalated long term health costs from cigarette smoking).

Pipe tobacco, however, as we all know, is not associated with the plague that was the two pack a day social phenomenon of the 20th century cigarette smoker. Comparing the dangers and costs of pipes and cigarettes is like comparing the full blown alchoholic with the gal who sips a chardonnay after dinner. It's ridiculous. They are vaguely related and neither is a wholly healthful thing, but they are apples and oranges. This is a punishment and control tax, as there is no great health burden looming from, nor a pending addiction issue caused by pipe tobacco. You're more likely to get cancer from breathing the smog in the air than you are from the occasional enjoyment of a pipe. This tax is about a special interest group with a misguided agenda riding on the coat tails of an actual issue unrelated to what they are selling. This is about a nanny state squashing civil liberties, an entirely unproductive thing no matter your political affiliation. It is wholly unamerican.

So there PB tongue

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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:48 pm

PD, that was very well said! I would only add that the antis are zealots; they are on a crusade; that want to take tobacco out. The financial penalties for smoking do indeed amount to punishment.
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:04 pm

Signed.

And I agree PB PD.


Last edited by DrumsAndBeer on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:24 pm

BS PD.. Second and Third hand smoke is killing the children.. You lefty liberal whackjobs need to just shut up and pay what ya voted for. Hope for change (left in your pocket at the end of the day)
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the rev

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:25 pm

I mailed my letter

rev
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Dutch

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:38 pm

puros_bran wrote:
BS PD.. Second and Third hand smoke is killing the children.. You lefty liberal whackjobs need to just shut up and pay what ya voted for. Hope for change (left in your pocket at the end of the day)

What could I possibly add to that statement, to make it any more fitting. cheers cheers cheers
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:48 pm

Dutch wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
BS PD.. Second and Third hand smoke is killing the children.. You lefty liberal whackjobs need to just shut up and pay what ya voted for. Hope for change (left in your pocket at the end of the day)

What could I possibly add to that statement, to make it any more fitting. cheers cheers cheers

What a couple of wankers. You expect anyone to take you seriously? You throw stupid shit out there like this, it only tells people that if someone doesn't agree with your entire right wing spin bullshit you'll try to pidgeonhole them as if they didn't have a reasoning thoughtin their heads. You both discredit yourselves. I sure don't see either of you standing up and offering to take responsibilty for, or pay for, the right wing war catastrophe your representatives caused, but you want to make any left supporter seem like they are responsible for everything you don't like. Frikkin jerkoffs. No wonder the Christian right is falling off so fast, you don't live up to the principles you preach.

Assholes.

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:51 pm

Typical liberal. I bow to your superior BS. Vote in another tyrant for us please.
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Dutch

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:52 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Dutch wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
BS PD.. Second and Third hand smoke is killing the children.. You lefty liberal whackjobs need to just shut up and pay what ya voted for. Hope for change (left in your pocket at the end of the day)

What could I possibly add to that statement, to make it any more fitting. cheers cheers cheers

What a couple of wankers. You expect anyone to take you seriously? You throw stupid shit out there like this, it only tells people that if someone doesn't agree with your entire right wing spin bullshit you'll try to pidgeonhole them as if they didn't have a reasoning thoughtin their heads. You both discredit yourselves. I sure don't see either of you standing up and offering to take responsibilty for, or pay for, the right wing war catastrophe your representatives caused, but you want to make any left supporter seem like they are responsible for everything you don't like. Frikkin jerkoffs. No wonder the Christian right is falling off so fast, you don't live up to the principles you preach.

Assholes.

What could I possibly add to that statement, to make it any more fitting. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:01 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:

I sure don't see either of you standing up and offering to take responsibilty for, or pay for, the right wing war catastrophe your representatives caused,

Assholes.

Taking responsibility? NO.. I didn't do it.. If memory serves A majority of congress and senate backed it, both D and R..
But I do remember Barry O running on the promise of ending all this warfare, 5 years ago.. Hows that working out?

Paying for it? Yes I am... I'm totally saying lets pay for it.. via new tax, Like this TOBACCO TAX on the wealthy people with enough money after they pay their bills to afford $100, $500, and in some cases Multiple thousands for pipes.. and the insanely rich who have so much money they can maintain facilities to store pounds and pounds of tobacco.. Surely your not suggesting that these people can't afford it?
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Allow me to change that to sarcastic assholes.

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huffelpuff

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:25 pm

Done!

Jim
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DoverPipes

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:59 am

Done.
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:45 am

What concerns me is the shops inching up their prices like has happened with guns. Inching the prices just makes more people scramble to buy up stocks. Most of the baccy companies we enjoy are truly small businesses and will end up taking the punch like the consumers. Go Go Nanny State! Sad
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Northern Neil

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:55 pm

After reading this thread I started looking into tobacco legislation in my province of Alberta. I found a law that states it is illegal for an individual to hold over 1000 grams (2.2 pounds) without a tobacco retailer license. The punishment for a first offense is a $10,000 fine AND / OR 30 days in prison. Doubles for second offense.

Now, I have a feeling this is in place to help fight the organized crime / black market sales of cigarettes and cigarillos, considered a "labeled tobacco product". However, "non-labeled tobacco products," the name they give luxury loose leaf pipe tobacco and cigars, as well as labeled tobacco products, mentioned above, are both included in this law. That means a lot of these "cellars" I am reading about from the American Brothers are pretty damn illegal where I live.

Just some food for thought.
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GrampaGrossbart

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:29 pm

Wrote in re: 194, for all the good it'll do...I'm with PD on this one in general.

I'm also curious as to what this will actually mean if it goes through. As in, are we talking an extra dollar an oz on bulk baccy, two bucks on tins, etc, or more like a doubling in what we pay now? I'm not eager to pay more than I already do, of course, but on the other hand I've seen folk go all Chicken Little before on potential price hikes...

Then again, I smoked cigarettes back in the nineties, and am relieved I quit every time I'm at my tobacconist getting pipe weed and notice the current cost of coffin nails!

So yeah: does anyone know what kind of numbers we'd actually see?
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:00 pm

GrampaGrossbart wrote:


more like a doubling in what we pay now

This.

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:22 pm

I would assume a 200% tax increase would mean 200% on the taxes they already collect. Who this also hurts is the producers/blenders. They will have to up the price to cover their overhead because of lost profits.

(x) customers buying (y) ounces per year on average directly affects the small producer. The government takes their cut (tax), less customers purchase (y) ounces forcing the producer to increase the base price. Even less customers purchase said product forcing the producer to close their doors and lay off employees. Big producer X steps in with a cheaper and inferior product to fill the demand.

while(consumer = 'lose' && small_corp = 'lose'){
big_corp = 'win';
big_gov = 'win';
}

if (big_corp = 'win' && big_gov = 'win'){
politicians_claim_victory = true;
}

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:37 pm

C much
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:57 pm

Hereward wrote:
I would assume a 200% tax increase would mean 200% on the taxes they already collect. Who this also hurts is the producers/blenders. They will have to up the price to cover their overhead because of lost profits.

(x) customers buying (y) ounces per year on average directly affects the small producer. The government takes their cut (tax), less customers purchase (y) ounces forcing the producer to increase the base price. Even less customers purchase said product forcing the producer to close their doors and lay off employees. Big producer X steps in with a cheaper and inferior product to fill the demand.

while(consumer = 'lose' && small_corp = 'lose'){
big_corp = 'win';
big_gov = 'win';
}

if (big_corp = 'win' && big_gov = 'win'){
politicians_claim_victory = true;
}





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-Yak
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ED_X

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:46 pm

I really hope this doesn't pass, it would be a serious problem not only for pipe smokers but also for smaller brick & mortar tobacco shops. With all the serious problems you'd think Congress might have more important issues to deal with.

Ed
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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Oppose the Tobacco Tax Equity Act   Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:56 pm

Neil, the prospect of having my cellar deemed illegal, now that scares me, given all the tobacco I've been buying. Funny!/Tragic! But that's not happened in the US, yet. I think most countries will use the tax/govern policies. It has been very effective.
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