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 Showing work experience unrelated to field?

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bentbulldog

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Age : 34
Location : Briarwood, NY (not joking)
Registration date : 2009-06-21

PostSubject: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 1:11 pm

First, I hate the resume! It limits you to a piece of paper that is expected to get a recruiters/hiring managers attention but must follow specific guidelines. I have skills I've used and honed in several industries but can't put into a resume that would be taken seriously because it wouldn't work as a chronological type and functional resumes are often just bypassed.

With all the talk of unemployment bias, would it be wise to put an unrelated job on your resume/Internet job profile?

Thank you all for the non tobacco related replies
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idbowman

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Age : 35
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 2:06 pm

bentbulldog wrote:
First, I hate the resume! It limits you to a piece of paper that is expected to get a recruiters/hiring managers attention but must follow specific guidelines. I have skills I've used and honed in several industries but can't put into a resume that would be taken seriously because it wouldn't work as a chronological type and functional resumes are often just bypassed.

With all the talk of unemployment bias, would it be wise to put an unrelated job on your resume/Internet job profile?

Thank you all for the non tobacco related replies


For me, when I'm hiring/interviewing, I'm looking at the entire set of skills/abilities, including those not related to the job (because they may one day be related, or may indicate potential aptitude for skills I am looking for). IMHO, if you list abilities/experience not necessarily related to the position you're seeking, it shows that you have a broader base of skills and aren't just a one-task robot. If you've spent a reasonable amount of time in more than one field (particularly one's for which you aren't formally trained/educated), it shows an aptitude for learning and honing new skills.

As far as work history, I don't worry so much as where you've worked or what specific positions you held, but whether or not you've been able to stay in one place without "job jumping" every year or so. If you were laid off, RIF'ed, downsized, or your employer went out of business, no one would hold that against you...it's the leaving after a year or two because you got bored, got fired, or the generic "personal reasons" (even if those personal reasons are totally legitimate - taking care of a loved one, moved because a spouse found a great job, etc - it doesn't look so hot if it affects YOUR employment more than once or twice).

All of that said, someone applying for a job at a technical firm, for example, might be hesitant to list recent time spent making ends meet working at Burger King for fear that it will look bad. It is absolutely acceptable to create a small section to follow your work history that lists "other skills" (use three columns to save vertical space on the page). Use this section to list skills learned at jobs you haven't included, or skills acquired as part of a hobby or non-work related endeavor.



Take this for what it's worth...I'm no expert, I don't work in HR, and I don't work for a hiring firm or career advancement company. I do run a department with roughly 30 employees whose duties run a pretty wide range, and I do all of my own vetting, interviewing, and hiring, but I can only speak to what I look for (and what has worked for me in the past).

Just my $.02. In any event, good luck with the search!
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bentbulldog

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Age : 34
Location : Briarwood, NY (not joking)
Registration date : 2009-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 2:27 pm

Thanks for the reply Ian. Again, the reason for my dislike of the resume, it doesn't tell you the whole story and in today's market, especially in nyc, this document needs to be immaculate and suit the eyes of the beholder. I've been temping to gain experience and pay expenses but many eyes see this as unstable, not Considering the individuals circumstances. Based on the few responses I've gotten back, I'm in a tight spot because I'm too senior for entry level or junior roles but lack quantifiable experience for higher level positions.

Here is my LinkedIn profile for reference. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bcshakarov
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Kyle Weiss

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Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 3:35 pm

Not having worked traditionally for a few years now, there's a few things to consider, and as someone who has held positions of hiring/firing etc, as well as someone who has been on the other side of the table:

* It's a good idea to keep your professional name separate from an Internet persona. People are completely oblivious these days at the fact businesses can and will search things like Facebook and other social media. For example, "Weiss" is not my real name. It's a pseudonym given to me years ago, and those that know me by that can find me. Those that don't, don't need to. It's served me well. If I'm hiring or talking to someone, you're darned right I'd be looking into their background. If I find nothing, what I don't find won't hurt me. Plus, it might let me know they're smart enough to either not engage in "spotlight" activity (signifies high maintenance, self-centeredness in my book) or know better to keep their professional and casual life separate.

* LinkedIn and other "professional" sites are largely worthless spam generators and email farming sites. If ever referred to LinkedIn in a professional or hiring capacity, I actually take significant points off.

* "Résumé" is a funny French word that gets translated as "the thing that gets you hired." It isn't. A résumé will only get your foot in the door. It's a summary of you, not the whole you. When I write one, it's the most dreaded part of the experience. When I read one, it's the most dreaded part of interviewing someone. The fact a résumé, and for that matter the companion cover letter, are required these days, is horrible. What was designed as a way to streamline the workforce and ease pressure on management, it has taken on a life of its own. "How to Rock Your Résumé," "Résumé To Get You Hired," "The Résumé Of All Résumés," all crap. All of it. Most managers realize you are not a piece of paper. If you put your effort into a cover letter or a résumé, and not your personal presentation (language skills, personal skills, and in-person energy), you will not get hired.

Years ago, when I was in my early 20s and attempting to get various jobs, I had a hard time because I was uneducated, but plenty experienced in many fields. Most told me I was screwed, but I managed to get some pretty fascinating and awesome jobs. One critical skill, success or fail with these jobs, was nailing the job. Flowery, lengthy résumés and cover letters did me harm. Simple, direct résumés did well, especially those that were catered to the specific job I wanted. A very short, inclusive list of outside talent and experience is all that's needed. That's what I look for, along with spelling, punctuation, grammar and ease of reading.

* Summary--take care of the basics. Make a résumé solid and to the point (that's what they're for). Know your industry/job applied for, and what the psychology is. By that, I mean if you're applying for an art gallery, you want to show flair, character, poise and salesmanship, both in "tone" of your résumé as well as in person. If you're going into manufacturing, show hard work, dedication, willingness and timeliness. A résumé and cover letter are the introduction, the interview the first date, and closing the deal depends on the speed of your date--kind of strange how that works. Every situation is different, adapt (but never lose yourself or go outside legitimate comfort zones). A job interview is an act, a dance and a courtship on both sides. Be real, yourself, and be personal. Anyone a little "too perfect," desperate or not fitting right will always be cast aside...but résumé "fluffing" can be a benefit--all in the way you word it. Most HR people or bosses worth their salt have a good gut instinct for what will and won't work for their company. If you do everything right in the end, and still don't get hired, it might be a blessing in disguise. For some jobs, I got so good at adapting for a potential position, I sometimes wish I hadn't, because the company was fatally flawed financially, psychologically, or in process--fortunately my senses are finely-tuned now, and if I feel it isn't right, I'll complete the interview as good practice rather than expecting to get that particular job. These days, though, sometimes you can't be picky...which is unfortunate.

Good luck. Smile I realize this may be a bit of a "back to basics" or been-there-done-that kind of thing I wrote up there, but that's how I keep myself up-to-date even in strange times...the basics always work, and revisiting them has helped me countless times.
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Briar Spirit

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Location : England UK
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 3:43 pm

A perspective employer would do well to consider a person more fully than a quick scan over skills required for the job applied for, I would suggest you list skills you have acquired which you are 'confident' in, if questioned on them there will never be room for any 'uhmmm' responses from you!

Just be aware that you can be considered 'over qualified' for some jobs and an employer might bypass your application for fear you will leave the company too soon, a lot of time and money goes into recruiting.

Additionally, a list of say a dozen or more employment related experiences will also put your chances at risk, too many listed experiences might suggest, right or wrong, that you are a fly-by-night and perhaps don't stick at things for long.

It's a balance you must find, consider what you add carefully, would saying you are skilled at stripping down a car engine actually impress an employer looking for someone to babysit toddlers, see what I mean.

If it seems to you that any experiences or skills you might state would impress in the right way then sure right it down on your resume, otherwise do the perspective employer a favour and don't force them to read stuff they wont consider pertinent.


But you know all that rubbish don't you, I tell you what is a winner for those seeking to employ, coming across with a whole lot of relevant knowledge of the company, its function and putting across the sense of seeking somewhere to plant roots, shows you're serious and have done your homework, just don't take it too far, goes a hell of a lot further than 'hey look at my qualifications'.

Just my views really.
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 3:49 pm

Have you talked to head hunters? They typically help you buff your resume. I imagine there are dozen of online sites you could Google for solid advice.

All I can really remember is avoid gaps as much as possible. If that means a different field, probably better than the gap.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 4:06 pm

The whole "work gap" thing is hit-or-miss. If someone is jumping from job to job every three to six months, then I'd ask about it (especially if the to-be-hired has interesting/useful skills). I take that into consideration.

We are in a world where longevity is the exception rather than the rule. If a year or two can be had, I figure it's worth the risk. Corporate jobs being what they are, and how fast they change, I can't expect someone to pony along with bullsh*t forever, so reading which jobs were held versus which were not begs questions, not judgement. To further my point with that, a guy who trudged along for 10 years in a position may be looked at as not advanceable, stuck-in-their-ways, unimaginative, lacks initiative...but not always. I look for dynamics within a company, rather than simply length of service. It all depends on the job and the industry.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 4:41 pm

Sadly, in today's employment world, you're gonna have to deal with it as it is, NOT what you want it to be. The "paper" gets you in the door, after that it THEN is somewhat how YOU want it to be. It's the 21st century and we ALL have to come to terms with it Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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bentbulldog

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Age : 34
Location : Briarwood, NY (not joking)
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 4:59 pm

I've been working with headhunters for 3 yrs. Here is the secret: they work for their client, not for you. Nyc is the buyers market, they won't work on your resume if they have other candidates who are more suitable.
I got a masters in science of HR only to learn through experience that companies don't use science.I have come to the cconclusion that getting hired is 1st about getting noticed and then being likable. Getting noticed is mostly networking (which I've exhausted) and being liked is personality. Sure qualifications matter but, based on experience, most would rather have a bubbly personality than an ambitious one.
The feedback I get from interviews is I'm very smart, And confident but over eager. Suspect

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Trifecta13

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Location : Peoria, IL
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 6:03 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Sadly, in today's employment world, you're gonna have to deal with it as it is, NOT what you want it to be. The "paper" gets you in the door, after that it THEN is somewhat how YOU want it to be. It's the 21st century and we ALL have to come to terms with it Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
It's not often that I agree with Monbla (kidding of course). I've worked in helping students with the job seeking process and resume development as part of my graduate assistantship, and often in other English dept. capacities as an undergrad. What Monbla said is spot on... Think of your résumé as that piece of paper which gets you to an interview- nothing more. If you're already getting some interviews, your résumé is likely not the problem, and the fact that you seem to be asking for feedback after the interview is another huge plus in your column. Unfortunately, that leaves me with little else to offer other than, "give it time." Allow me a brief hypothetical: before you will find a job, you will be rejected 37 times. Knowing this, you would find yourself looking forward to each rejection as it means that its one fewer that you need to endure before landing that job. This is really the job seeking process in a nutshell... The downside is that no one can tell you that magic number. What I can tell you is that your progress thus far seems to clearly indicate that you will find the right job. In that spirit, you should look forward to, and indeed relish each and every rejection... It just means that you're that much closer! Best of luck!
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Dutch

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 8:44 pm

bb, in my line of work, the people in HR haven't a clue when they are being told the truth, or when they are being lied to. When I sit down for an interview, I know that the person responsible for hiring me, will never actually work with me.

Given that, I usually always try to incorporate into my answers, technical aspects of my work, that I know they cannot comprehend. They will usually pretend to know exactly what I am referring to, and that is when I know that I have made them feel that I can be an asset to the team that they are assembling.

Do I want to appear to come across that I know more than I need to know for a particular position? Absolutely!

I seriously doubt that you can apply my mindset to serve every interview opportunity, but in my line of work, it usually always works. In addition,

Go with your gut instinct on this one. Nobody knows your line of work better than you, and besides sometimes one door closes, so that a better one can open. If you go to work for a company that you don't fit with, you will never be happy, and will only accomplish earning a paycheck. Being happy with who you work for and with, can benefit you in a multitude of different ways, not just the money and benefits you earn.
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 9:00 pm

As rapidly & dramatically as things are falling apart & re-configuring these days, pretty soon nearly all experience is going to be "unrelated" experience. Include it, highlighting the skills you actually used to do what you actually did.

Be ready to explain why you're not still at those jobs today. Baseline what they're looking for is ability & stability.

At the interview, be ON TIME, positive, relaxed & confident. Wear a tie (if appropriate) & don't use the "f-word."

Do NOT tell them what a bunch of dysfunctional assholes you had to work with previously, because the company you're applying to is another one like it (if not worse), and everybody there knows it. Even the HR guy, who is pretty much the corporate village idiot. Help him & everybody else there pretend otherwise. That's mandatory.

Good Luck

What a Face
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Irish Mike

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Age : 55
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 9:46 pm

Yak wrote:


Do NOT tell them what a bunch of dysfunctional assholes you had to work with previously, because the company you're applying to is another one like it (if not worse), and everybody there knows it. Even the HR guy, who is pretty much the corporate village idiot. Help him & everybody else there pretend otherwise. That's mandatory.


lol!

So True!
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KevinM



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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 10:00 pm

I agree with Monbla's comment. No one was ever hired because he / she sent such a splendid resume. All you're doing with a resume is applying for an interview. It's an ad for you. So your resume has to offer something sufficiently interesting that it goes in the "call file," not the dreaded circular file.

Think benefits. What would the hiring manager gain by adding you to his team? Avoid doing a resume that reads like a job description, because you'll sound like everyone else. Succinctly state your work history in terms of what achievements you have delivered for past employers. If you think about the "doesn't apply" stuff from this angle, you may surprise yourself.

And don't let the emeffers discourage you. I was once sitting in an HR holding area when an HR recruiter walked to the reception desk and dropped a six-inch stack of resumes in ther eceptionist's lap. One of these women looked to be maybe mid-20s. Ther recep looked like a Cosmo reader. "We got 200 responses to the ad in Sunday's paper. Pick four and schedule interviews," was the task. Keep moving. You only need one hit to get in the game.

Remember that most resumes these days are scanned by computers looking for specific terms applicable to the job. So try to appease said computer.

You might look for the book, "What Color is Your Parachute," which is most likely in your local library.

Good luck.
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bentbulldog

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Location : Briarwood, NY (not joking)
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 11:51 pm

Kevin, I have the 2012 edition of the book and got through to where I had to analyze my skills and got stuck.

I've NEVER had a problem looking presentable. I once walked into a new car dealership for an interview and the guy gave me the job on the spot just based on my presentation and my interactions with sales people I'd never met.
I know more about proper attire than most of my peers and even some of my elders, mainly because I studied true sartorial experts and learned what works best for me.
I had one recruiter tell me I might be intimidating the interviewer. I dress conservatively but properly and ask the dress code in advance. I'm a CC at Toastmasters intl so I know how to give a reasonably good presentation. I self educate and take seminars/workshops whenever possible. I've been doing what is expected and often more yet I'm bypassed because I'm too senior for the starter roles but lack experience for others.

I know I'm on a rant right now but it's frustrating and I find that I'm blaming myself, for reasons I can't quite find.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Tue May 07, 2013 11:56 pm

Worth adding: don't try too hard. Seems like you're winding yourself up over it...and yeah, for good reason, but... as I said about desperation above... ladies don't like it, interviewers don't like it--just don't come on too strong. You'll be fine, man. Really. I love you

Also, you gotta understand there's a lot of guys clamoring for jobs, and it may take some special effort and/or luck.

Don't stress unnecessarily, and certainly don't let 'em see it. Smile Otherwise, you're probably set and good to go.
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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Wed May 08, 2013 7:40 am

~70% of available jobs are minimum wage, grunt jobs in service--Burger Queen, etc. Bad jobs bad pay. But when you're looking for work having any job, even if its a lousy job, buoys your spirits. Employers will sniff you out, and if they smell the low self-esteem of the unemployed, it will be a short interview. Also, some income is better than no income.

My 2 cents.
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KevinM



Age : 74
Location : Connecticut
Registration date : 2012-02-26

PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Wed May 08, 2013 11:41 am

Bent -- Here's an exercise that boosts your confidence and polishes your resume.

Sit down with yr Word program and write down your Greatest Hits. What do you think are your best performances? It doesn't have to be limited to paid work. Then incorporate those in your resume as "benefits," and mentally rehearse them as responses to interviewer questions. Better yet, rehearse them to a significant other, your dog or the mirror.

Did you ever hear of the 5-finger exercise? After you have your Greatest hits, list the top five. (four is too few, six too many) The interviewer usually opens with the Q, "Tell me about yourself, Bent." You hold up one hand and tick off five of your top achievements. At the end, you turn the tables and ask, "Which of those would you like to know more about?" His / her answer tells you what a key (maybe unspoken) requirement of the job is. Bear down on that one.

Try to just look at the interview as an interesting conversation, but one you'd like to guide Smile

You'll come out of this fine, but it's a pain in the butt getting to the happy ending.

Good luck.
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Bullwinkle

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Wed May 08, 2013 12:00 pm

I had one recruiter tell me I might be intimidating the interviewer.

from reading your post I wouldn't be surprised.
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KevinM



Age : 74
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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Wed May 08, 2013 1:09 pm

Re: "Intimidating the interviewer." Possibly, but think about what the interviewer's greatest fear is. It's making a bad hire that they'll have to live with for a looong while.

Could an interviewer see you as formal, controlling, stiff or standoffish? That might be great in an FBI agent, but how would that go over in a team? Remember, they just now met you and are forming an opinion on very little that is substantive. So before you go in for the interview do a relaxing breathing exercise. Then walk through the door with a big smile and your hand already extended for the shake.

And be friendly to the receptioist. Recruiters often ask them which candidate they liked. It won't be the one with the board up his ass, so be cool.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Wed May 08, 2013 2:55 pm

One thing I realized, macro-level here, there's a ton of experience and job diversity in our ranks here at BoB, ain't there? That's pretty cool. Cool I'll have to remember that if I'm flummoxed with business or personnel issues.

For once a thread seems to be lining up in the same direction with everyone basically saying the same thing as far as advice is concerned... I'm shocked! Laughing Mr. E needs to come in here and suggest the interview be started with a pair of boxer shorts worn on the head--that gets 'em hired every time. Razz

Cool
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Dave_In_Philly

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Thu May 09, 2013 5:44 pm

Late to the game - but I just wanted to address the initial question. Yes absolutely include all job experience within a relevant time frame and all experience related to the field in which you are applying. I have been involved in the hiring process of about half a dozen attorneys and quite a few more support personal and a handful of IT folks.

What stood out most to me about one of the attorneys was that he was laid off by a very high dollar corporate firm (the kind of attorney whose sh*t shouldn't stink) and went to work at Starbucks while he was looking for a new firm. Also, you would be surprised what might be relevant to some employers. As part of an internship in college I got a license to sell life, health and disability insurance. I never used it, but it did put it on one of my internet profiles and that actually got me contacted by a fairly prestigious law firm looking for an associate to do health care regulation work. I didn't take the job, but it sure did help me negotiate my next raise.
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KevinM



Age : 74
Location : Connecticut
Registration date : 2012-02-26

PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Thu May 09, 2013 7:24 pm

And a lot depends on how you present the "unrelated" information.

I know of a fellow who was the successful candidate for a senior financial position with a well-known multinational. The interview process went on and on, passing from one interviewer to another. He had a classic brand differentiation problem. How could he stick in the awareness of all these guys? As a young man in a rural state, he made $$$ by trapping. He somehow managed to work youthful work experiences into his interviews. His exit line was something like, "Nice meeting you. I don't know if you'll hire me or not. But I'll tell you one thing -- if you do hire me, I'll be the only guy here who's managed a trapline."

He could pull this kind of thing off -- granted, not everyone could -- because he looked like Mr. Brooks Brothers. And yes, his credentials got him into the race, but the same could be said of all the other candidates.

Ya know, this has made me want to go out and hunt a job, except I don't actually want to work. Maybe I could go out just for the fun of the hunt and, if successful, could subcontract it to someone who needed it.

Added: Best "unrelated experience" I know of was a lawyer who eventually ended up as a "government affairs" -- i.e., lobbyist -- kind of fella. He worked his way through college as a borscht belt waiter/comedian in the summer. He was a brilliant guy. No one knew as many jokes or could tell them as well as he could. Asked if he planned to keep his hand in the trade during retirement he replied, "I never, ever, ever want to hear the words law or government again." At the retirement send off our boss said, "He's the only lawyer in the damn department who doesn't tell you how to make a watch if you ask him what time it is." (not everyone laughed, as I recall) His hobby was archeology, and he then left for an extended trip to tour South American ruins.

Okay, I'll stop now.

Happy hunting to all job seekers.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: Showing work experience unrelated to field?    Fri May 10, 2013 1:33 pm

Note to self: Categorize job-hunting advice in the same box as how-to-deal-with-women advice.

"Every man's an 'expert.'" Laughing

Cool
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