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 The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people

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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:33 am

sand18f wrote:

Does this seem familiar?
Brothah sand18f:

It sure does. It's the document that embodies the spirit of the American Revolution, which most people confuse with the War for Independence (sometimes inaccurately called "the Revolutionary War"...except that there's nothing revolutionary about war). The war was a war of rebellion, and it started before the Revolution. Most of the early participants did not want independence. They just wanted redress of their grievances.

It wasn't until 1776, January 10 that the idea of independence broke on the colonies like a storm. That was the date Thomas Paine's Common Sense was first published. That was what turned the rebellion into a genuine revolution, which culminated in the Declaration of Independence on July 4 of the same year.

I fear that the spirit of the American Revolution has been pretty much stomped to death by the state. But no one who genuinely understands what the Declaration represents makes the mistake of confusing the revolutionary concepts the Declaration contains with the bloated, festering cesspool of institutionalized corruption that has increasingly afflicted U.S. citizens since the inception of the state.

The original Declaration is currently held captive under lock and key in Washington. But they can't lock up the ideas it embodies. We all need a reminder from time to time. Thanks for posting it, amigo.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:48 am

http://gauchnomica.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/patriot-act-vote-record/

No matter whose Kool Aid you decided to drink, red or blue, I think we can all agree that career politicians do not serve the interests of the people. We need term limits.
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:00 am

Kyle Weiss wrote:
alfredo_buscatti wrote:
The statement that we have nothing to fear as we've done nothing wrong is flawed as the Federal government decides what's wrong. With all the information they have they hang anyone of us on any number of pretexts. They're already doing this.

Yes. Everyone's already said exactly this.

But you also wrote:

No one really cares what you did last weekend, unless it was testing the structural integrity of lengths of pipes, caps and sharing maps of mall exits.

How embarrassing to have occasioned the very words you are deriding. But then again any thread sheriff worth his salt, who says inflated things as above as well as judges the relative worth of other members' posts, is probably incapable of sophisticated feeling.

Play sherif with someone else; it's all downhill from here.
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:05 am

Quote :
In fact, the only reason this has come to light is because the whistleblower (Edward Snowden) was working for the NSA and decided to out the bastidges.


I have a problem with this. I have known about the Gooberment telling the telecoms that they will be providing access to information, for years. This is Article II or Title II of the Patriot Act. After it was passed and the jackbooters rejoiced that we were now protected from evil, They went to companies, one by one, and told them what was required. Even small independent Internet providers. How is it that most Americans never heard of this when it was being complained about in the news and online at the time?

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:51 am

Lost in the shuffle (apparently) :

Quote :
Microsoft, Google, Apple . . . have steadfastly refused to provide access to their users' data without a warrant issued by court order.

Quote :
Andrew Fernandez, chief scientist with Cryptonym of Morrisville, North Carolina . . . found that Microsoft’s developers had failed to remove or “strip” the debugging symbols used to test this software before they released it. Inside the code were the labels for the two keys. One was called “KEY”. The other was called “NSAKEY”.

Fernandes reported his re-discovery of the two CAPI keys, and their secret meaning, to “Advances in Cryptology, Crypto’99″ conference held in Santa Barbara. According to those present at the conference, Windows developers attending the conference did not deny that the “NSA” key was built into their software. But they refused to talk about what the key did, or why it had been put there

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:01 am

sisyphus wrote:
...I think we can all agree that career politicians do not serve the interests of the people. We need term limits.
Agreed on both points, sisyphus. And I'll go further (although it's not my original idea): We need term limits on laws.

Think it through carefully, and you'll come to appreciate the sense it makes. The permanence of artificial political legislation is the direct cause of the erosion of liberty and freedom of choice. It's obvious why that's true (...well, to me, at least), but if it's less obvious to anyone else I'll be happy to prove it.

Carlos wrote:
...How is it that most Americans never heard of this when it was being complained about in the news and online at the time?

I dunno about most 'Mericans Carlos, but for my part, I was mostly oblivious to the hue and cry and wailing and gnashing of teeth over it—on purpose—as I am with most political squabbles. The idea that some new new burst of legislative folly would miraculously Protect Us From Evil™ was never a pantload I bought in the first place. Like all such ill-conceived political attempts to coercively manipulate complex systems with simplistic rules (as though human were machines), it was predictable that there would be unintended consequences that would make the "solution" worse than the problem it was supposed to solve. That's what political law does. It can't not do it.

We're living in those consequences now. And sure enough, the author of the Patriot Act just can't resist fanning the flames of divisive political partisanship: Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican Author Of Patriot Act, Says NSA PRISM Surveillance Goes Too Far

Hey, I'm no fan of Mr. Obama, and I'm not certainly not going to defend his administration's unconscionable abuse of power, but this finger-pointing nonsense by Mr. Sensenbrenner is a case over-the-top evasion of responsibility. I mean, he wrote the doggone law. I don’t care what his intentions were…you know the old saying about which road is paved with good intentions. So now that his poorly conceived and implicitly articulated legislation has (predictably) gone straight to hell, he’s shifting the blame to Mr. Obama? What…as though the Bush administration was snow white and lily pure, and the pinnacle of rational & moral behavior? Sheesh…

Oops…sorry—it’s not my intention to rake Mr. Bush over the coals any more than Mr. Obama. I don’t know either of them personally, but I’m not disposed to like either of them because of the power they have deliberately sought to have over other people’s lives and liberty. Legality be damned; they have no moral prerogative to seek such power, much less to hold it, and even less to use it.

As Brothah sisyphus sez, if you buy into the bullcrap on either side, you’re drinking Kool-Aid. It doesn’t matter what its color is.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:46 am

Catherine Austin Fitts wrote:
Pass a law, create a business.

So long as the net effect of laws is to give some economic enterprise an advantage over its competitors, or a cartel over potential upstarts, and the way that those laws get enacted is by (not to mince words) buying them, laws like that will achieve the same permanence that the "patriot act" has. Periodically reviewed, and periodically re-enacted.

As in everything else in a usury-based economy, the Golden Rule is ironclad --

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Money talks ; Bullshit walks.*
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*Bullshit : Any consideration that doesn't impact return on investment.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:57 am

Even architecture is expressing its dissatisfaction with government.
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:46 am

Ain't no surprise here.
Anyone dealing with security issues, wether at a government level or a private company has to be paranoid.
If you ain't suspicious of everyone and everything then you are not doing your job.
When you realize your mother will lie to you if she feels it is in your best interest where does that put everyone else? Welcome to reality.
Remember, the squeaky wheel may get the grease, but the nail that sticks up gets the hammer!
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:52 am

Kevin Poulsen wrote:
What’s in Edward Snowden’s 41-slide PowerPoint deck that’s so hot that nobody dare publish it?

Now that Snowden has revealed himself to the world as the NSA whistleblower, details about his interaction with the press are surfacing. And at the center of the drama is a still mostly unpublished 41-slide presentation, classified top secret, that Snowden gave to the Washington Post and the Guardian to expose the NSA’s internet spying operation “PRISM.”

Only five slides from the presentation have been published. The other 36 remain a mystery. Both the Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald and the Post’s Barton Gellman have made it clear that the rest of the PowerPoint is dynamite stuff … which we’re not going to be seeing any time soon. “If you saw all the slides you wouldn’t publish them,” wrote Gellman on Twitter, adding in a second tweet: “I know a few absolutists, but most people would want to defer judgment if they didn’t know the full contents.”

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/whats-in-the-rest-of-the-top-secret-nsa-powerpoint-deck/47043

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:53 am

Michael Rivero wrote:
Something else we need to be aware of. During his career as head of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover was notorious for keeping is "personal" secret files and was legendary for using those files to blackmail politicians, even Presidents like John F. Kennedy. It was why no President dared replace him as head of the FBI. But those were just paper files, scant traces of personal lives. Now realize the NSA has every phone call you have made for the last 7 years, every email, every text message, every photo, every video, on every single American, including members of Congress and the President. Do you think the NSA is any more moral than the FBI?

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:17 am

“Verizon had set up a dedicated fiber-optic line running from New Jersey to Quantico, Va., home to a large military base, allowing government officials to gain access to all communications flowing through the carrier’s operations center.”

Government doesn't need legal means to implement this type of abuse. All it takes is the need to cooperate with someone like the FCC to improve the corporate bottom line

http://www.newsmax.com/ira-stoll/stoll-verizon-data-mining/2013/06/10/id/509012

This prism deal is only the index to the data collected already. Prism is just the tip of the iceberg.

There are so many laws today it is estimated that every one of us is guilty of an obscure felony each day. And, the net provides proof we are all felons on a near daily basis. Your short hairs are in their hands.
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:15 am

[Editor's note: While I would like to believe that Douglas Hagmann is exaggerating, all the evidence is against it. From my point of view, it is astounding that the major media has said nary a peep about the report of the subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Intelligence, which was released on 3 October 2012.

After a review of 680 "fusion center" reports from 2009-2010, they found NO INDICATIONS OF ANY DOMESTIC TERRORIST THREAT, as I have reported here at Veterans Today. NONE! ZILCH! NADA! NOT ONE!

That none of the major networks--ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, or MSNBC--has said a word about this tells me that the government's control of the media is complete and comprehensive and that these seemingly interminable attacks at Sandy Hook, Boston and now Santa Monica are intended to create the FALSE IMPRESSION that we have a serious problem with domestic terrorism. Well, we do have a serious problem, but it lies in another direction, as Douglas Hagmann explains.]

DHS insider: It’s about to get VERY UGLY!

by Douglas Hagmann

7 June 2013: Something quite unexpected happened just hours ago, in the dark of night, during a two-day layover in Washington, DC. My son and I are scheduled to take part in a seminar outside of Raleigh, North Carolina this weekend, so we combined our travels to include a side-trip to DC for a business meeting we had previously arranged. It was during this layover that something seemingly ripped from the pages of a spy novel took place.
While I was in the middle of a perfectly good and well needed sleep in the very early hours of this morning, I received a message. I cannot disclose how I received this message, at least not now. The discerning reader will understand why, which, by the way, would make a very interesting story alone. The message was extremely clear and precise. I was to meet my high level DHS insider at a very specific location in Washington, DC at a time when most “normal” people, except third-shift workers are still asleep. And, I was to come alone and make certain that I was not being followed, and I was to leave any cell phone or electronic device behind.

Seriously? I thought, as I was still trying to make sense of it all. Is all this really necessary? Is this really happening? I considered waking my son to accompany me, but opted to follow the instructions to the letter. Besides, I thought, he?s not the most affable middle-of-the-night person. I left a hastily written but detailed note in my hotel room before my departure in the event something happened. I looked at the digital clock on my rental car (my personal car would never survive our long distance trip). It was 3:20 a.m.

The meeting

I felt like I was part of a spy movie set in our nation’s capital. A chill rose up my spine as I waited in the dark of a chilly, misty and foggy pre-dawn morning. I was to meet with my DHS insider source at a time when most of the nation is asleep, at a place I could swear was featured in the movie All the President?s Men. No one and I mean no one knows I’m here, I thought, as I could see one of the most recognizable national landmarks in the distance.
My source appeared out of nowhere, or so it seemed, and handed me a cup of coffee with the astute observation that I looked like I needed it. So tell me, I asked impatiently, why do we have to meet at this time, at this location, and under such specific circumstances? “Because this might be our last meeting,” he stated.

Maybe it was the lack of sleep, the time, the place, or the chill of the misty rain that caused my sense of foreboding. “Explain,” I asked in an almost demanding tone. So he did, without mincing words.

The details

“If anyone thinks that what’s going on right now with all of this surveillance of American citizens is to fight some sort of foreign enemy, they’re delusional. If people think that this ‘scandal’ can’t get any worse, it will, hour by hour, day by day. This has the ability to bring down our national leadership, the administration and other senior elected officials working in collusion with this administration, both Republican and Democrats. People within the NSA, the Department of Justice, and others, they know who they are, need to come forth with the documentation of ‘policy and practice’ in their possession, disclose what they know, fight what’s going on, and just do their job. I have never seen anything like this, ever. The present administration is going after leakers, media sources, anyone and everyone who is even suspected of ‘betrayal.’ That’s what they call it, ‘betrayal.’ Can you believe the size of their cahones? This administration considers anyone telling the truth about Benghazi, the IRS, hell, you name the issue, ‘betrayal,’” he said.

“We know all this already,” I stated. He looked at me, giving me a look like I’ve never seen, and actually pushed his finger into my chest. “You don’t know jack,” he said, “this is bigger than you can imagine, bigger than anyone can imagine. This administration is collecting names of sources, whistle blowers and their families, names of media sources and everybody they talk to and have talked to, and they already have a huge list. If you’re not working for MSNBC or CNN, you’re probably on that list. If you are a website owner with a brisk readership and a conservative bent, you’re on that list. It’s a political dissident list, not an enemy threat list,” he stated.

What does it mean?


“What’s that exactly mean, being on that list, that is,” I asked, trying to make sense of it all.

“It means that there will be censorship under the color of authority of anyone in the U.S. who is attempting to expose what’s going on in our name. It’s about controlling any damning information from reaching epidemic proportions. It’s damage control to the extreme. It’s about the upcoming censorship of the internet in the name of national security. The plans are already in place. These latest reports about ‘spying eyes’ have turned this administration and others connected to it into something very, very dangerous. They feel cornered and threatened, and I’m hearing about some plans they have to shut down the flow of information that is implicating them of wrongdoing. Time is short,” he stated.

“How are they going to do this? How is it even possible?” I asked.

“First, they intend to use the Justice Department to silence journalists like in the Rosen case, but they won’t stop there. They will use a host of national security policies, laws, letters, whatever to take out the bigger threats,” he stated.

“Next, they will use some sort of excuse, an external threat, and I believe it will be a combination of the economic collapse and a Mid-East war that will begin in Syria to throttle the information that is accessible on the Internet. And you know what? People will believe it!”

“Based on what I’ve seen, most of which I should not have seen, the DHS is co-ordinating efforts with other federal agencies to begin to threaten American citizens with incarceration for non-compliance. You know the old talk of color coded lists? Well, this is what they will be using. People exposing the truth about Benghazi, killing the U.S. Dollar, even those questioning Obama’s legal status and eligibility to be President are the current targets. And they’ve had five long years to get to this point. The ugly truth is that these policies and practices did not start under Obama, but long before. This is about the killing of our Constitutional Republic. The murder of our country and the stripping of our rights. While many have been preoccupied with one issue, few have seen the bigger issue. This is the ‘end game,’ for all the marbles,” he stated.

More to come

“Please,” pleaded my source, “get this information out while you can. Tell people what I?m saying, that we don’t have much time, that after the latest exposure of spying, Obama, Jarrett, Axelrod, and others, including members of Congress, have put their plans into high gear. This is about the Marxist [Editor's note: Fascistic] takeover of America. This is about our country being able to survive another July 4th holiday. This is about a world war about to break out that will kill millions of people, all because of the agenda of this administration.”

“They are very dangerous and will do anything and everything to stop the onslaught of negative information that?s being reported by the main stream media. But only about one quarter of the real information is being reported. The other three quarters will be the game changer. But first, tell people what I’ve said. Let them know that more will follow but get this information out right now while the internet is still relatively free. Do it today.”

My source provided additional information, but I am abiding by his wish to get this much out. I am writing now to let people know that we are in for seriously dangerous times ahead. Deadly times. War, and censorship under the color of authority and under the pretext of of national security. It’s about to get a lot uglier. Stay tuned.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/09/dhs-insider-its-about-to-get-very-ugly/

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:17 am

Do you intrinsically possess individual privacy rights, based upon natural law authority, or are your civil liberties arbitrarily defined by the current whims of government? How you answer, this question speaks loudly about your understanding of the nature of your very being. Those who deem that natural law is a myth or a superstition are poised for voluntary surrender of their vital identity. The cataloging of individual essence is aberrant. Your deoxyribonucleic acid is the core element of personal uniqueness and human dignity. If your DNA is subject to government collection and storage, the right of personal privacy is destroyed.

The dramatic proliferation of coercive police powers has little correlation to an improvement in public safety. The precedent that convicted criminals lose constitutional rights has gone virtually unchallenged in a society enamored with obedience to state authority. The practice of the law and the judicial review that provides the arbitrary and capricious rulings that incessantly favors the expansion of a greater level of state control, consistently violates common law and inherent principles.

It seems that civil liberties are an underreported topic by most "so called" conservative venues. Alas, the folks on the left at Democracy Now undertake the task of covering the implications and debates the merits of greater police powers in an interview, Supreme Court OKs Unfettered DNA Collection.
Quote :
"In a landmark decision, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled the police can collect DNA samples from people they arrest even before they are convicted of a crime. Supporters of the swabbing method call it "the fingerprinting of the 21st century" that will help nab criminals and break open unsolved cases. But privacy advocates say the ruling is vague because it does not define what constitutes a "serious crime," and could create an incentive for police to make more arrests. The Supreme Court’s 5-to-4 ruling will likely fuel an expansion of DNA swabbing nationwide."

Background on the legislation that mandates DNA mining is a very slippery slope. The DNA Identification Act of 1994 authorized the establishment of a national index of: (1) DNA identification records of persons convicted of crimes, (2) analyses of DNA samples recovered from crime scenes, and (3) analyses of DNA samples recovered from unidentified human remains.

Justice for All Act of 2004 instituted material changes to the DNA Identification Act of 1994, including the creation of a new indicted persons index;

expansion of the offenses for which federal and military offender samples are collected;

enhancement of the criminal penalties for unauthorized use of NDIS;

authorization of one-time keyboard searches by all NDIS participants of samples not normally included in NDIS (except for voluntarily submitted elimination samples);

deletion of the separate requirement for semiannual external proficiency tests (although it retained the separate requirement for biannual external audits);

requirement for state and local forensic laboratories to be accredited by a nationally recognized program within 2 years of enactment (October 30, 2006); and

requirement for the FBI to report to Congress any plans to change the "core genetic markers" 180 days prior to that change taking effect.

The Supreme Court of the United States in their decision, MARYLAND v. KING, drastically extended the scope for DNA sampling based upon a conviction to the new benchmark, an arrest.

In the Washington Post, Professor Brandon Garrett cited in the article, After the Supreme Court’s DNA decision, what is the future of criminal justice?

Quote :
"Garrett also said that simply adding a DNA sample from everyone who is arrested might even make it harder for police to identify criminals, increasing the likelihood of false positives without adding any perpetrators to the system.

"A lot of innocent people will have their DNA in these databases," he said. "That dilutes the databases and weakens their power." He argued that since many criminals have prior convictions, taking samples only from convicts would be more efficient."

Making the case for privacy rights, David Gusella argues in the Boston Collage Law Review, No Cilia Left Behind: Analyzing the Privacy Rights in Routinely Shed DNA Found at Crime Scenes.
Quote :
"The purpose of DNA databases is to prevent future crime and to combat recidivism by using the information to catch repeat offenders. The government’s purpose in maintaining DNA samples does not outweigh the privacy rights of individuals because maintaining these samples ostensibly serves no governmental purpose. Despite the fact that many courts have found that convicted felons have a reduced privacy interest due to their past crimes, this privacy interest is diminished, not non-existent. In addition, because innocent people may be included in this database, their right to privacy in their genetic information should outweigh the minimal governmental interest in having access to non-phenotypic information. As a result, states should adopt some sort of limits on the duration of retention of physical DNA samples."


Collecting DNA from defendants is not equivalent with inking fingerprints into a database. Courts, routinely rubber-stamp the broadening of government authority. The calculated assault on liberty is accelerated when the function of peacekeeping morphs into intimidating law enforcement.

The outrageous Supreme Court decision in MARYLAND v. KING violates "due process" and demolishes the principle of innocent until proven guilty. The risk is obvious as stated in the article, Stockpiling of innocents' DNA.
Quote :
"The policy of indefinitely retaining the DNA of anyone arrested – but not necessarily convicted – has meant that hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including thousands of innocent children, have had their DNA permanently retained."

Are there limits to a national DNA database? If any citizen arrested is subjected to a non- consensual DNA swabs sample, does it end with just suspects? In an age of hyperbolic criminalization of disputed infractions, giving greater discretionary power to an all-pervasive police state is sheer lunacy.

In the disembodied spirit of "it takes a village to raise a child", the article Newborn DNA Registries Raise Privacy Concerns by Sarah McIntosh indicates a disturbing practice.


Quote :
"A February report in the Texas Tribune revealed the Department of State Health Services was giving hundreds of infant blood spots to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory (AFDIL). According to information obtained through open records requests, AFDIL was in the process of building a national mitochondrial DNA registry."



From the same piece Twila Brase, president of the Citizens' Council on Health Care, warns of the consequences of allowing involuntary DNA samples databases.

Quote :
"Government ownership enables the state health department and future legislatures to use newborn DNA as they see fit," Brase said. "There is a potential for eugenic strategies, especially in this era of cost containment. Governments and legislatures could implement policies that use the genetic screening data to reduce the bearing of children with costly medical conditions, mandating the kind of decisions you’ve seen with Downs’ Syndrome children."

With the inception of DNA science, the practice of biological engineering has gone wild. Extracting a DNA exemplar at birth is much different from forcing an arrestee to give up a saliva sample. The entire foundation of Western Civilization, based upon the inborn natural human rights of personhood, is violated when state mandates claim their license over your singular essence.

Assembling a massive DNA database on untold millions of Americans is an existential threat to the sacredness of life itself. The government is not our jailer, but is supposed to be our servant. Caution and vigilance oversight of government abuses is a cardinal duty of every American. Reasonable people should never trust the state to be the gatekeeper of your biological building blocks.

Common sense concludes that ownership of your DNA cannot morally be transferred into a communal retrieval system. Big Brother wants to dispatch the Grim Reaper when defective or unacceptable genetic traits are deemed detrimental to the socially collectivist society.

The "PC" misinformation declares, "Eugenics is the applied science of the bio-social movement which advocates practices to improve the genetic composition of a population, usually a human population." The true reality is that government sponsored research projects are seeking ways of culling the herd. DNA collection is the route to dissention elimination. Purging the general population of political undesirables is a goal that most courts would eagerly uphold. As the police state intensifies, the selection process for isolating individuals that resist the tyranny will increase.
If your DNA is in the possession of the illicit authorities, the effortless framing of targeted nuisances becomes a distinct probability. The ease of charging a rebel against the state as a terrorist comes out of a master database. Do you trust the government to obey constitutional precepts and restraints?

Unless the public develops a defiant attitude towards the inhuman incarceration culture, the DNA collection scheme will just inflate the population of embattled captives. The solution is to defend civil liberties at every opportunity. This is not a phony left-right canard. The kernel of universality rests upon the certainty that each individual is sacred. Your DNA is the quintessence of your person and no government can legitimately enforce the theft of your singularity.

People need to learn a greater respect for their own privacy and practice its defense accordingly.

SARTRE – June 9, 2013

http://batr.org/view/060913.html

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:32 am

Nasty stuff.

I wonder how the NSA (or any national security entity for that matter) could go about seeking "terrorist communications" on a global scale without collecting just about everything out there. What they are charged with doing pretty much requires omniscience. How do you find a particular needle in a mountain of needles without being able to inspect every needle?

I'm as appalled as anyone else about this. I am also aware that there's a huge erosion of public trust in the govenment with every such revelation. As I see it, the problem isn't the information mining itself per sé, but rather trust in who is doing it.

What's the alternative? Seriously.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:44 am

Solution : recognise that THE clear and present danger is the cabal that's in power today, as we speak.

Not Emanuel Goldstein (1984).

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:27 pm

George Wallace.

Robert Kennedy.

Ross Perot was making waves until warned off.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:51 pm

I think the overall problem is bigger than any one man or administration can rectify.

The momentum of technological development is far greater than our capacity to keep it contained and manageable. Instant worldwide access to both information and communication via internet makes data mining/surveillance a natural consequence. In other words, because it's there and the way it works, it's the natural outcome if national security and government are part of the panorama.

What we're seeing really can't be avoided given society as we know it today. It will invariably move towards what people call a police state in the effort to control it.

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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:31 pm

The Utah facility is supposed to be able to store 5 zettabytes of data. A zettabyte is 10 to the 21st power, or 1 million times larger than a terabyte, the largest amount of storage in whose terms I was accustomed to thinking, until now.

1Kilobyte or 10 to the 3rd power = 1,000
1Megabyte or 10 to the 6th power = 100,000
1Gigabyte or 10 to the 9th power = 100,000,000
1Terabyte or 10 to the 12th power = 100,000,000,000
1Petabyte or 10 to the 15th power = 100,000,000,000,000
1Exabyte or 10 to the 18th power = 100,000,000,000,000,000
1 Zettabyte = 10 to the 21st power = 100,000,000,000,000,000,000

But I applaud thinking big;).
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:44 pm

The Gattling gun was supposed to make warfare so horrifying that people would never consider it again.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Yak wrote:
The Gattling gun was supposed to make warfare so horrifying that people would never consider it again.

What a Face

That would seem dependent on which end of the gun you are on. Twisted Evil
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:14 pm

Well, the Utah facility has plenty of storage.

Coming to mind is that horrid show "Hoarders" that I see every so often when I'm staying in some crappy motel in backwater Nevada for work...so much stuff... only one poor soul to stack it, stash it and forget about it.

I can't imagine that almost 300 million people, accessing, saving, processing, replicating and creating new data each day is pined through with a fine-toothed comb. There isn't the manpower. There isn't the computer power. So they can store it. The Gatling Gun comparison is apropos--it was used a lot more for show and awe than as a strategic military weapon.

The scary thing is--what all came after the Gatling Gun...

...which is why this PRISM thing is (or should be) of some concern.

The new weapon is information. Whoever controls it controls the world. Not such a "new" idea after all, just the technology involved. How obedient reliant we are. I love you

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:43 pm

The nature of power is to want more power.
Total information is total? power; the data will be collected. (MisterE)
Any mid-level government official and those over him will have access to it.
The government will use the data to secure re-election as well as frame, prosecute,
convict and jail those who get in their way.

The rich will buy access to the data.
They will use it ruthlessly to get richer. Their riches will be fabled, like the Persian kings.
In comparison the riches they've amassed through the capital gains tax slash will seem
small.
They will exploit the classes below without mercy.
Ultimately there will be revolution.
One of the first acts of the revolutionary government will be to destroy all digital
technology.
Society will once again be primitive.

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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:50 pm

^Everything except the revolution and the destruction of all digital technology has (and is) already happened.

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Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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PostSubject: Re: The PRISM Scandal - Feds spying on millions of people   Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:10 pm

In your mind, not yet mine.

Moreover, if the above is correct it will be done on a far more grand scale, about which, were it occurring now, we would know.

But if so we couldn't talk about it as there will be no conversation that wouldn't be recorded. Even employing practical anti-eavesdropping techniques such as back round noise, how would you know if your home/business was bugged?
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