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 Some thoughts on Cellaring

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monbla256

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Age : 71
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

PostSubject: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:53 pm

When I first started smoking a pipe back in 1969, most of the older , more experienced pipers would advise "... that you want to smoke fresh tobacco" so we would buy our tin or two of 965 or 759 or Dunhill Flake etc and open it and smoke it right away. This was how I have smoke almost ALL of my 'bacs since then and never really felt I was "missing" anything in the smoking attributes of each blend/mixture I smoked. A few years ago I met a smoker who had started to "age" his tobacco's as he called it then. He said he was "... doing like the wine folks do" which sounded reasonable to me. I still smoked my 'bac "fresh" but did understand the idea that he and others I've met since then were doing. But about three years ago, a buddy of mine that I served in 'Nam with was killed in a car wreck over in Dallas and his wife was faced with selling his wine "cellar" of over 300 bottles of fine wine NONE of which He had EVER drank!! He was "waiting" for them to be ready to drink as he told me back then. He had become an attorney after "Nam and started his wine cellar right as he started his practice. Had almost 30 years worth of "cellaring" with all his wines and NEVER tatsed any of 'em! I hear some folks here suggesting that they are going to sit on 'bacs for 20 years or more and to me, with life being such a crap shoot, time wise, seems a waste of good 'bac to me ! I could see 5 years but no more. Lifes just TOO short to not enjoy now !! JMHO Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil 
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Draagha

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Age : 26
Location : Merritt Island, FL
Registration date : 2013-07-02

PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:04 pm

monbla256 wrote:
I could see 5 years but no more. Lifes just TOO short to not enjoy now !! JMHO Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil 
My thoughts exactly. I've only been smoking for a few years and just recently really developed a taste for finer tobacco. I figured I'm going to give it a try since all I've ever done is smoke it fresh, I've bought a few tins locally that were a couple years old but I haven't noticed a significant difference in that. Maybe more time really does make it that much better? scratch But I'm not going to put alot of stuff away for aging, maybe one or two things per every major TAD.
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:42 pm

I too, although I have managed to cellar some Escudo thankfully because now the the blend has drastically changed for me, so I still have some good stuff to enjoy. And I do have a couple of odds and ends cellaring in hopes they'll be smoke-able in a year or two.
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Kyle Weiss

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Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:58 pm

That's a really good point, Mon. I have to hand it to ya.

However, the optimist never plans to die, but to live--and blissfully stocks up for the future. The pessimist deprives himself because after all...what's the point? The sane realist finds a way to enjoy the moment, however, whatever and whenever possible.

Someone will hopefully enjoy the aged (insert consumable). It'd be a fantastic honor to the carefully aged product, and the hopeful curator.

"Leaving nothing to waste, not product, effort nor intent."

Cool

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DrumsAndBeer

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Age : 45
Location : Northern, CA
Registration date : 2012-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:09 pm

Monbla, your post really strikes a chord with me. Nothing in life is sure. My mother who passed away unexpectedly in May at age 68, (in excellent health btw), is a constant reminder of that. Personal belongings, life savings, even the house we live in all seem so tiny in the shadow of her loss.

All said, I hope to live to see my kids grow up and become successful in life & I hope to see the day where I am 80 sitting in a comfy chair smoking a well aged tobacco.

Hope for the best, expect the worst. Very Happy
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Brewdude

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Age : 65
Location : Near the Emerald city
Registration date : 2011-05-04

PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:27 pm

I suppose the answer lies in what the smoker considers optimum age. Some weeds are great fresh and others benefit from ageing.

As one example, I cannot smoke Haddo's fresh. It's far too aggressive and harsh. After 3-5 yrs it takes on a whole different dimension and becomes more balanced and complex. To me that's when it comes into it's own.

Same can be said of CC.

But there again, that's just my tastes. Others will haver a different view.

In general I like to see what the 'baccy has to offer fresh, and will lay it down accordingly.

Collecting for the purpose of ageing for 20 yrs tho seems like a case of diminishing returns. VA might age well, but what it might also loose in this time should be considered.

JMO


Cheers,

RR
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Harlock999

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Location : Los Angeles
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:02 am

Most interesting food for thought Monbla.
I've been a collector my whole life, and so is my dad.
He's reached an age where he's outlived the ability to really enjoy a lot of the things he's acquired, especially guns. So, it's not just the fickle hand of death, but also the slow drip of life that needs to be contemplated.
On the other hand, there's this; saved objects that once had no purpose, that all of a sudden have a new meaning. Among the junk in my storage unit, there are quite a few boxes of toys, never played with and still in their original packaging. Well, I never knew what I was going to do with that stuff... Until I had a son!
Now, he's opening all those toys, and playing with them, and it's a joy to watch!
Thank you for a most thought provoking post Michael!

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AJ

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Age : 69
Location : East of the Rocky Mountains
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:13 am

You make a good point to ponder Michael. I've spent considerable amount of time contemplating this very issue to decide why I cellar tobacco. With my age and health issues I doubt that I've got 20 years left even though I'd like to have another 25 years to see my youngest grandchild grow up, go to college, get married, and have some kids. I'd like to live long enough for those great grand kids to get to know me, learn to love me, and provide an opportunity to teach them some of the values I think are important. Cellaring tobacco with the intent to let it age 20 years is an unrealistic goal. But the aging of the tobacco by stashing it away is just an added benefit. I buy my favorite tobaccos in sufficient quantities to cellar for future use and to have some to smoke as desired in order to escape the possibility of not being able to obtain it due to government regulations , taxation, and the increased cost in the future. I don't believe tobacco will ever be cheaper than what it is today. I bought a number of pipes this year for the same reasons. I now have a sufficient number of good quality pipes. From here on out I'll only buy some Comoy's for my collection if I can get them at a fairly cheap price and I'll only buy the occasional commissioned pipe to use if I decide that I just would like to have another pipe. A bowl of aged Va. or a Vaper is a real treat but for me to plan on aging some for many years isn't practical. My dilemma is deciding how much of each blend to buy.Rolling Eyes 

AJ
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Hermit

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Age : 64
Location : Ascension Parish
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:28 am

I have enough to last well into my eighties.
If I don't last that long, what do I care, I'll be dead.  Twisted Evil
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Dutch

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Location : On the road.......
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:04 am

Michael, I agree that the long term goal of aging tobacco at bulk prices can be daunting. Buying it bulk allows us to save money, but aging that same tobacco for optimum flavor can leave some of us dead before it reaches it's peak flavor.

This is why I enjoy buying estate tobacco off ebay. Yesterday I was bidding on a 1994 tin of McCranies Red Flake, but when the bid exceeded $41.00, I backed away.

When a guy can buy a pound of a particular tobacco for the same price that a 20 year old tin sells for, he can save a lot of money of he can live long enough to enjoy it.

The thing I try to keep in mind, is that a 20 year old tin of Virginia may seem expensive when compared to a bulk pound purchase, but it is still a great value when compared to the exorbitant amounts of money people spend to smoke cigarettes and premium cigars.

With the money already invested in a few quality pipes, we are able to enjoy the best tobacco's even when we pay a premium price for aged Virginia's.

Another upside, is that all blends don't need as much time to age, so investing mostly in bulk English blends makes a lot more sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:32 am

We think we know and then we find out we didn't and life becomes less than optimal. That's come home with some recent issues that affect quality of life. It minor compared to some but points out that the only thing that will be engraved in stone about my life is drawing closer.

I can't smoke like I could just months ago. I always had a pipe going. Now I have to set it down for a bit. Now I wonder how much longer I can get away with it. Won't mean much at that point in having the very best tobacco in the known universe at hand.
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Dave_In_Philly

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:20 am

My cellar has grown as I have started buying bulk tobacco or multiple tins to save money. My principle purposes are (1) to keep cost down, and (2) to always have a sufficient stock of what I am likely to want to smoke at a given time. Aging tobacco has been more of happy accident, as my cellar has grown to the point where I can't smoke through it too quickly.


...cigars are another matter.
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pepesdad1

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Age : 74
Location : Tallahassee, Florida
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PostSubject: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:25 am

Good points monbla...I have started to cellar tobacco that I enjoy for two main reasons.  Tobacco costs will go up...no question about it...between the push in healthcare and taxes, there is just no way around the fact that it is going to go up.  Second, as I am now going into my senior years with possible forced retirement due to health reasons, I won't have the disposable income that I have now.  So now is the time to stock up on my favorites.  If I die before I can consume that tobacco...it and my pipes will go to a BoB member who is younger than myself for him/her to enjoy and continue the legacy of the pipes.  I believe that the pipes have a "soul" of the previous owner, so I want to continue that legacy of the pipe on to the next owner.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

PS:  Beautiful child, Harlock .  I know you must be proud...and you should be.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:57 am

Meh. The bigger deal you make out of enjoying something and the harder you work at it the less enjoyable it is. Wait 'til the moment & the pipe are right for something -- that's when the magic happens. The rest is preparation for spontaneity.

The reason there are pounds of old tobacco here is because the thought of how much better it will be when it's even older outweighs the impulse to smoke it before it gets there. Plus, ever since discovering Union Square, Embarcadero's become pretty much desert, with US assuming the role of daily bread & FVF being an occasional snack. At which rate, two pounds of E will last at least several years, and the pound of FVF probably longer.
William Blake wrote:
He who binds to himself a joy
Doth the winged life destroy.
He who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity's sunrise.
What a Face
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KevinM



Age : 74
Location : Connecticut
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:54 am

Sorry about your friend. He may have gotten more enjoyment out of collecting wine than drinking it, so the situation might have less irony in it than it would appear at first glance.

Seems to me, whether we buy tobak by the tin or the ton, we don't have any guarantee that we're going to be around to finish it. So we don't really know either "enough" or 'too much." Sobering, ain't it? Might as well lay in an ample supply. What that might be is up to the piper, who will pay the tab in the end.

Two ways of considering this situation --

Book of Job -- Man born of woman is few of years and full of woe.

Dylan Thomas -- Do not go gentle into that good night.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:07 pm

Actually, Thomas wasn't really addressing death. His father was first going blind. It is a lovely poem though about another end game. It makes better sense knowing the particulars.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

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KevinM



Age : 74
Location : Connecticut
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:46 pm

Isn't that a great poem? It's a bit like Bobby Frost in being so deceptively simple that it seems anyone could have written it. Yeah, right.

If I may do my best impression of a dusty ex-English prof --

This poem is an excellent example of the limitation of "author's intention."  If you read it, knowing nothing about Thomas or his father, what would you say it's about, just based on the text?  Does it make it better to know it's about his father's approaching blindess? Or not? Is it better to read it as being about mortality, which Dylan Sr., Dylan, and none of the rest of us will escape? Or not?


[picks up his yellowed notes and exits]
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:44 pm

I fear we're starting to take the road less traveled by. Wink
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Kyle Weiss

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Location : Reno, NV
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:33 pm

Yak wrote:
Wait 'til the moment & the pipe are right for something -- that's when the magic happens. The rest is preparation for spontaneity.
Summarized perfectly, my conclusion. cheers

Cool
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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:33 am

Before last spring when I sold my cellar, I had indeed not smoked some of the best aged tobacco in it. I kept putting off smoking it to age it and also became preoccupied with other blends, and forgot what I had.

I bought a 200 g canister of the Heinrich Curlies back from the guy to whom I'd sold it last spring. It's 10 years old and I wasn't going to smoke it just yet. But given what Monbla wrote I'm going to open it.

Thanks, monbla!
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ftrplt

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Location : Split between Raleigh, NC and OKC, OK
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:26 pm


I certainly relate to Brother Monblas opening statement. I've been piping since 1964. Never "cellared" a 'baccy 'til about ten years ago when I fell in with this "Den of Thieves" (on the old JR board, I think!!) who constantly kept bombarding me with ideas on new tobacs that I'd never tried nor sometimes even knew existed!! The harsh reality hit me last year that I have accumulated enough pipe weed (and cigars) to last me a lifetime!! I've also hit the realization that a goodly bit of my collection is now quite valuable. I bought the stuff to smoke, not sell. And that's what I'm going to do!! I need no more tobacco!!! Sorry, must go now!! USPS is delivering another box of tobac to my door!!!!!Laughing FTRPLT
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:42 pm

The only mason jars here come with my weekly white lightning delivery and they have a deposit. I enjoy what I smoke. I've gone back to cigarettes twice. Each time I had tobacco that had set for several years. For me, not much difference.

I do have about 10# of LNF sitting here but if you think I am going to use my time left stuffing flakes into jars then there is another flake present.

You want to age it and anguish over it, fine by me. I have things I enjoy more. Yes, even more than watching tobacco age.
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Briar Spirit

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:46 pm

Cellaring tobacco is a game for those with the cash to bulk buy in the first place, I would love dearly to be able to gaze upon a cellar of tobacco of my own, what a wonderful feeling it would surely be to see kilo's of PS-LBF just staring back at you, aint never gonna happen for this guy, Heck, I have had to spend my next 3 months baccy ration on paying for stems to be re-drilled, aint happy about that I can tell ya pale , no smokes for me for 3 months, I certainly aint gonna be worrying about ageing baccy.
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Dave_In_Philly

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:43 pm

Kirk Fitzgerald wrote:
Cellaring tobacco is a game for those with the cash to bulk buy in the first place
This might differ for you folks across the pond, but my cellar developed primarily for the opposite reason. Here, I can get 8oz of bulk Start of the East for $21. Compared to 2 oz tins at $10+ its far more economical to buy 1/2 lb at a time. 8oz of LBF is actually cheaper - about $18 for 1/2 pound.
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KevinM



Age : 74
Location : Connecticut
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on Cellaring   Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:43 pm

> . . . I would love dearly to be able to gaze upon a cellar of tobacco of my own . . .<

Wine or tobacco, this is a cogent expression of the idea involved. It isn't, imho, simply the coming together of weed and wood at the perfect moment, pleasant though that may be. It's a comforting thing to have an ample quantity standing by whenever and whatever, whether fate has you lined up to eventually seal the deal or not. There's nothing anyone can do about his own x-date. As a practical matter, buying tobacco in bulk -- which strikes me as a frugal measure -- pretty much forces the piper into Mason jar territory. So one may wonder if the best word choice for the practice is aging, collecting, defensive buying or simply hoarding. I think would support the old New England phrase, "putting by," because it has no negative connotation
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