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PostSubject: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:29 am

I am out of touch.  No question.  A number of those in my age group here understand it full well.

In the summer an old horse drawn cart with a canted bed came down our street selling produce.  The wagon was cobbled together and had mismatched wheel sets. The old man had a retard young man helping.  They both made an honest way and were respected. Today, the government would take charge by condemning the operation at multiple levels and then giving them aid.

We had a refrigerator but two doors down had an ice box and put a sign in the window on ice days.  Another horse wagon and a similar crew.  Government results would have been similar.  The people with the ice box had a gold star in their window and we kids avoided bothering them and our parent made sure we were very respectful.

I lived in a city that billed itself the crossroads of America and that was still the age of steam.  A fresh winter snow would be black by noon.  Could the EPA shut that down? I doubt it.  

There was the knife sharpener that came down the alley and the bums that showed up at our back door that my mother always fed.  In all that, in summer we played outside from morning to night without fear of being the 6 o'clock news lead.

What I just said is strange or weird to many of you.  You have no connection to it.  I can't set it aside.  Yet, I ended up being a computer consultant before retirement.  Funny world.

We grandkids would always pester Grams and her sister to "Tell us about the good old days." and darned if they didn't sound quaint.

P.S.  I was born in 1940.  That was just before the austerity that the war engendered.  Honest, we didn't get around in Conestoga wagon.  A few years later, things took off.  What I described didn't last long but it is a memory.
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PostSubject: Are you happy now?    Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:51 am

I remember those days...they were very enjoyable...but time and times have moved forward...and we can reminisce about it all we want...them days are gone...gone...gone.  Have to laugh at those people who want their country back...guess what, it got sold out from under you about 30-40 years ago.  We are in a global society now.  For better or worse depending on your outlook.

It will never be, what it has been.  Thank God for our memories...what little we have left.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:57 am

Well, carrying it forward, it wasn't all a bed of roses. Seems the world was at war then even more than now with very brief respites. It is easy to gloss over any era and make it more than it was. But the unavoidable is the perspective that comes with it. That taints all generations.
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PostSubject: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:15 am

Yeah,  people talk about the wars we have been in and forget all about those who served in Korea....Oh, but that was a "police action", not a real war.
Tell it to the dead and those who came back maimed and destroyed forever.  Police action, my ass.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:41 am

You may be surprised that despite being born almost 40 years later, I had some of those same sorts of experiences in a small town in the heart of Louisiana. Insulated by its remoteness and locked in time by the few families of farmers that lived there... I was taught from a young age the values of self reliance, pride, and respect. Our fridge and ice box were in the "wash house". We got kicked out the house early to do farm chores and after that we could play all we wanted until nightfall. The only rule was to be home in time for dinner. Spent most of that "spare" time fishing for alligator gar in a little trash pond behind some 200 year old oak trees and a lonely pecan.

Maybe that raising was just an echo from a time before. I look around me now and feel so different from many people and certainly what comes in via the media. But then I look at my little cousins and realize... They're still in that same old town. They're raised in that same old way. Saw a photo the other day of the youngest boy cousins with their crawfishing boots on. Brought back memories. Only difference now is that they have TV and Facebook.

So who knows. It all changes, but certain people keep on keeping on.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:13 pm

Tate wrote:
You may be surprised that despite being born almost 40 years later, I had some of those same sorts of experiences in a small town in the heart of Louisiana.  Insulated by its remoteness and locked in time by the few families of farmers that lived there...   I was taught from a young age the values of self reliance, pride, and respect.  Our fridge and ice box were in the "wash house".  We got kicked out the house early to do farm chores and after that we could play all we wanted until nightfall.  The only rule was to be home in time for dinner.   Spent most of that "spare" time fishing for alligator gar in a little trash pond behind some 200 year old oak trees and a lonely pecan.  

Maybe that raising was just an echo from a time before.  I look around me now and feel so different from many people and certainly what comes in via the media.  But then I look at my little cousins and realize... They're still in that same old town.  They're raised in that same old way.  Saw a photo the other day of the youngest boy cousins with their crawfishing boots on.  Brought back memories.   Only difference now is that they have TV and Facebook.

So who knows.  It all changes, but certain people keep on keeping on.
Beautifully put, and seconded by myself. I grew up on my hands and knees lifting up rocks in the creek to look for crawdads (ya'll southerners call 'em crawfish) and caddisfly larvae. I spent hours and hours and hours in the 10 acres of woods behind my dads cabin with a pocket knife and a sandwich and a book. I was told recently by a friend that I got "sexy points" for knowing how to skin a rabbit. If my mother knew (my parents were divorced) she would have killed my father. I learned how to tap trees for maple syrup the old fashioned way with buckets and spigots. My dad would head out for a walk in the woods and half an hour later I would head out too and track him all the way through the woods, out to the county road and back to the cabin.

And yet, I often wonder when people romanticize the good ol days if they aren't wearing rose colored glasses. I heard horrible stories of the great depression from my great/grandparents and saw the way it scarred them and left it's mark until the day they died. The two great wars were fought then with terrible loss of life, limb, and mind. And I hear stories of children who died of illnesses that nowadays are virtually unheard of. I remember my grandfather telling me that his beautiful mother was locked up in a state mental hospital because she went "crazy", only to die tied to a bed screaming in agony. An autopsy was done on this "deranged" woman and they found cancer throughout her body. My great grandmother died alone, written off as a lunatic, in horrific pain strapped to a bed because she had cancer. I have often wondered what her life would have been like had she lived in this day and age with the medical advances we have now. I look at my own mother, who was diagnosed with colon cancer two years ago and is right now sitting at her desk at her full time job working and planning a trip down to see me in a week or two, while still having the cancer in her body. She is able to survive and more importantly to live because of these advances. Cancer is not only becoming more curable it is even becoming a chronic condition at times.

I tire of hearing how much better the good 'ol days were. There is good here and now. Lots of it. (This forum for example) We just need to tune out the negative that everyone seems to be so addicted too.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:24 pm

I visited my Da's home town in S.Ireland about 20 years ago, life was still then very much like that, modern times were there too but folk were still trading fish and bread for what ever they needed and this curious old guy was going door to door offering knife sharpening services, I loved it there.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:35 pm

Not really surprised, Tate. What you describe isn't the norm these days but it is still out there.

All these cameras they have now invading our privacy is small potatoes. In our area if a kid did wrong, mom knew about it before you could run for home. People knew each other and looked out for each other without needing help. We try to emulate it with technology or neighborhood watch initiatives but there it was all on auto pilot.

I do have to say, having moved after grade school to a farming community, that I never met an optimistic farmer. Smile The land was always overpriced. The crop was always underpriced. The rain was never right. I also remember the foreclosure era and that was a truly sad time. I'm glad your folks got by all that.
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PostSubject: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:39 pm

Yes, there were horrible issues back then.  I remember when polio was a big deal and vaccinations were mandatory in some areas of the country, black people were being lynched and other atrocities were being perpetrated......I think what we old codgers like to think about was the fact that most people knew what their future was going to be because they could actually plan for things.  Capitalism wasn't destruction capitalism (at least it wasn't widespread and accepted as it is today).  If you worked and stayed with a company for a period of years you could expect a good retirement because you could plan for it...a vulture capitalist wasn't waiting in the wings to screw your whole life and take your earned pension.  Things worked out because you could count on some semblance of a future.
Today, forgetaboutit.  If you don't invent some piece of crap, that everyone needs and wants, made now in China, and sold by the anti-American Walmart...you are sh** out of luck.

Not to rain on your parade...but the future sucks for the young.  Too much globalization to be able to count on anything.

JMHO!
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:45 pm

pepesdad1 wrote:

Not to rain on your parade...but the future sucks for the young.  Too much globalization to be able to count on anything.
JMHO!
Nah, its just different. Everything changes. You mention destructive capitalism but keep in mind the age of the robber barons came right before that "normal" capitalism. Then the great depression. Then WWII, which surely made it seem the future was dim for a time. Each generation has to face its own set of devils. Don't count the world or the people in it out so easily.
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PostSubject: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:47 pm

Tate wrote:
pepesdad1 wrote:

Not to rain on your parade...but the future sucks for the young.  Too much globalization to be able to count on anything.
JMHO!
Nah, its just different.  Everything changes.  You mention destructive capitalism but keep in mind the age of the robber barons came right before that "normal" capitalism.  Then the great depression.  Then WWII, which surely made it seem the future was dim for a time.  Each generation has to face its own set of devils.  Don't count the world or the people in it out so easily.  

You are right....people are resiliant....they will make it...their way...not necessarily my way...but they will make it.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:57 pm

Not going into details of my life but, I had a few good memories of the past and not much since and I wish to keep them. I'm tired off seeing and hearing what this world of ours has become. And am sadden and angry that we won't come together to do something about it. So I close my doors from the outside world and try to enjoy what time we have left and wait for the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:04 pm

Cartaphilus wrote:
I close my doors from the outside world and try to enjoy what time we have left and wait for the end.
This. As best I can, anyhow.

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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:10 pm

Cartaphilus wrote:
I close my doors from the outside world and try to enjoy what time we have left and wait for the end.
Puff Daddy wrote:
This. As best I can, anyhow.
You guys are silly. Your door is wide open. You're on the Internet. The modern marvel and gateway to countless other minds just waiting to communicate with you. It may just be a computer screen, but its actually communication. Shut, lock, and block the door to your house, but you're less closed off now than a socialite in a medium sized town in the 60s.

Ain't technology grand?
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:13 pm

Tate wrote:
Cartaphilus wrote:
I close my doors from the outside world and try to enjoy what time we have left and wait for the end.
Puff Daddy wrote:
This. As best I can, anyhow.
You guys are silly.  Your door is wide open.  You're on the Internet.  The modern marvel and gateway to countless other minds just waiting to communicate with you.  It may just be a computer screen, but its actually communication.  Shut, lock, and block the door to your house, but you're less closed off now than a socialite in a medium sized town in the 60s.  

Ain't technology grand?  
My monitor may work as a door but, NO one will enter unless I let them.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:17 pm

Cartaphilus wrote:
My monitor may work as a door but, NO one will enter unless I let them.
I usually invite them in.  Its easier to trap them that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 pm

Tate wrote:
You guys are silly.  Your door is wide open.
I think you misunderstand the notion. What is meant by closing the door to the outside is recognizing the useless bullshit that permeates society and choosing to ignore it as best as is possible. It doesn't mean ignore everything, it's about filtering. Look at facebook and television and talk radio and you'll see what people concern themselves with. Ignore that crap, shut the door on it, take in only what is worthwhile and screw the rest, who cares. Add politics, social engineering, consumerism and the nightly news to that as well.

The old guy strolling down the street in a raging storm, smiling to himself. Someone asks him "Don't you see what's going on around here?"

"Nope!" Old man keeps on strolling, keeps on smiling. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:31 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Tate wrote:
You guys are silly.  Your door is wide open.
I think you misunderstand the notion. What is meant by closing the door to the outside is recognizing the useless bullshit that permeates society and choosing to ignore it as best as is possible. It doesn't mean ignore everything, it's about filtering. Look at facebook and television and talk radio and you'll see what people concern themselves with. Ignore that crap, shut the door on it, take in only what is worthwhile and screw the rest, who cares. Add politics, social engineering, consumerism and the nightly news to that as well.

The old guy strolling down the street in a raging storm, smiling to himself. Someone asks him "Don't you see what's going on around here?"

"Nope!" Old man keeps on strolling, keeps on smiling. Smile
Guess you only have screen doors on your house. Go back and reread what you guys said about doors being shut and tell me that doesn't sound like an ostrich with its head in the sand. alien 
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PostSubject: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:35 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Tate wrote:
You guys are silly.  Your door is wide open.
I think you misunderstand the notion. What is meant by closing the door to the outside is recognizing the useless bullshit that permeates society and choosing to ignore it as best as is possible. It doesn't mean ignore everything, it's about filtering. Look at facebook and television and talk radio and you'll see what people concern themselves with. Ignore that crap, shut the door on it, take in only what is worthwhile and screw the rest, who cares. Add politics, social engineering, consumerism and the nightly news to that as well.

The old guy strolling down the street in a raging storm, smiling to himself. Someone asks him "Don't you see what's going on around here?"

"Nope!" Old man keeps on strolling, keeps on smiling. Smile
I dunno,  ..... works for me!
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:41 pm

[quote="Tate"]
Puff Daddy wrote:
...and tell me that doesn't sound like an ostrich with its head in the sand.   alien 
5)  ...... [sigh] Point completely missed.

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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:44 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Tate wrote:
Puff Daddy wrote:
...and tell me that doesn't sound like an ostrich with its head in the sand.   alien 
5)  ...... [sigh]  Point completely missed.
I got your point. Trying to say a door is a filter and you're just "filtering" the bad out. My counter-point is that a door is not a good comparison to a filter. Unless maybe its a screen door.
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PostSubject: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:48 pm

Tate wrote:
Puff Daddy wrote:
Tate wrote:
Puff Daddy wrote:
...and tell me that doesn't sound like an ostrich with its head in the sand.   alien 
5)  ...... [sigh]  Point completely missed.
I got your point.  Trying to say a door is a filter and you're just "filtering" the bad out.  My counter-point is that a door is not a good comparison to a filter.  Unless maybe its a screen door.  
I don't mean to be demeaning...but that is the difference between ? and 49 YOA.

On second thought...forget I said anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:53 pm

Just the way it initially came across with the "my door is shut to the outside world", is a little, shall we say, standoffish and like I said, reminded me of an ostrich with its head in the sand. Its fine if I took it the wrong way, I can be wrong, but you might want to be aware some people took it the wrong way. Age aside. 32 years old here btw.
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:57 pm

Life's a beach and where's the water ? Twisted Evil 
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PostSubject: Re: Time and perspective   Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:01 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Life's a beach and where's the water ? Twisted Evil 
Over here my friend:

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