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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

Church Warden Empty
PostSubject: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:46 am

A delightful Plateaux Church Warden from high grade Tuscany Briar.

Any way, I thought folk might to see it so here it is.

Church Warden IMG_0993

Church Warden IMG_0989

Church Warden IMG_0994

Church Warden IMG_0995


Last edited by Briar Spirit on Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:45 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : removed sold notice, buyer backed out of deal)
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Fatman

Fatman

Age : 57
Location : Alaska
Registration date : 2013-02-14

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 6:06 am

Looks fine to me, I'd smoke it!
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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 6:26 am

Ha-ha, thank you kindly John, I love it to be honest, just wish I had considered the depth of the bowl before drilling the darn thing, it's really 'deep'. I used the re-worked spade bit James sent to me some time back, it's a dud of his he sent me to show me how to re-shape spade bits into tobacco chamber bits. The bit has a nobble on the tip which makes the drilled hole have a dimple in the base, I actually spent over 2 hours working the bowl with sandpaper to make it right in the and it's pretty darn perfect now, the bit is blunt as all heck now mind you. I stupidly tried re-shaping the bit myself and now have some pretty nasty cuts on my left hand, wont be trying that again!
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Mozjo33

Mozjo33

Age : 51
Location : Columbus, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-04

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 6:58 am

Looks great to me.  Smoke that bad boy!
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millerman

millerman

Age : 44
Location : Dry Fork, VA
Registration date : 2013-02-01

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 7:24 am

Looks great.
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Rob_In_MO

Rob_In_MO

Age : 46
Location : Park Hills, MO
Registration date : 2011-01-19

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 7:28 am

Kirk - there's not a damn thing wrong with that pipe. Anyone that likes Churchwardens, including me, would be more than happy to add that one to their stable.

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Guest
Guest



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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 9:22 am

I've turned a number of spades into a form of spoon because I could never see the value of owning a pricy spoon for the few tasks I need one for.  Heck, I don't even remember what they were anymore.

I had a table, belt sander I used but that is pricey and it takes some careful work to avoid overheating.  A grinding wheel worked better after I had managed to work it to close on that I'd put a carborundum wheel on the buffing setup I'd made up and cobble a table out of wood at the angle I want to finish it at.

The only trick was to maintain the center point.  Eyeball is close but never 100%.  So, it helps to mark true center while the spade point is still there for reference.  It doesn't need to be deep just showing the line using a little diamond file. And if you miss the relief by a little, little bit, it still will provide a serviceable cut.

If the bit you were given is dulling, it was either chintzy steel like many spade bits or he let it get hot enough to lose temper.  

Try to pick up a used, small motor.  You can see a setup like that in RR picture of his restoring setup.  It isn't ideal but it is lower cost.  Use wood to make a table setup with the angle and keep a can with some water to keep in room temp each pass and you'll keep temper.

A used motor was available in some used/junk shops in the area for very modest cost.  

The relief under control with the table setup and knowing the center point makes it quite doable.  You should then be able to maintain it with a board with a piece of scrap leather and some rouge by hand.

The only trick is a table with the relief controlled if you want more than a clumsy  one-off that does dull quickly but get by temporarily.

It is all really in the preparation and can be done with a pretty simple setup.




OK, that said, you seem to again be harder on the results than the work deserves.  Every other pipe maker doing hand made pipes has a lot of machinery assisting and helping define the quality.  The pipes you produce are unusual in the amount of true hand work going into them.  It isn't that the others can't do what you are doing but that they have massive quality control in the equipment used.  

I didn't get to see the small dimple that the bit created but it appears the flaw was minor.  You willingness to work so much to remove that minor flaw gives you credit but really is a form of overkill.  Even with better tools, I never made anything by hand that I didn't see flaws in.  As long as they are minor, I found people didn't see them anywhere near as well as I did and I got compliments.

Look at the hand made stuff BlackHorse does.  It is fine work with attention to detail.  Yet, I'll bet he can show you flaw or compromise that he sees that certainly aren't what his perfect vision of the project was.  Really that is what hand made is all about.  It adds a level of personality that marks that added value he puts into a project.  

You've been around machine made goods too closely. Yes, every refrigerator looks like the perfect one next to it in the store.  So why then are the expensive things we see from artist on Antiques Road Show so valuable.  Grandma Moses didn't know what perspective was yet you won't get one for the price of a perfect print from the department store.  

I've made powder horns and muzzle loading rifles for myself and friends and even sold some.  Not a one was perfect. But they progressed and made it beyond just acceptable and others desired them.  Frankly the crafting I am seeing from you is superior to all my effort.  

Don't be so hard on yourself.  You are your own worst critic my friend. Show the pipe to another pipe smoker.  Don't tell him what you see; ask him for an honest look at what he sees.  You are likely to be surprised when his comment don't come close to yours.  I bet he'll see something very different.

Look, Fatman is enjoying the heck out of that pipe you were here ready to throw in that junkbox from hell you've created in you mind.  He's right and you are wrong.  Well at least wrong in demanding too much perfection.  Seeing it is not perfect is good and makes you grow but don't lose sight of what you have accomplished.
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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 9:56 am

Such kind comments and overwhelming support, thank you very much chaps, I feel a whole lot more confident in this pipe now.



Heya Ken,

I was quite confident in the work I am doing until I had a couple of chaps chastising me via PM regarding the quality of my work and my daring to put my work up for sale. The fact is that it shook my confidence hugely and it is still with me, I am well aware that totally hand carved work is far from flawless and I did feel I was getting there in learning how to get the form to come through nicely. Thing is, now when I look at the work I am doing I am unable to see anything else but the flaws and knowing that there are some people viewing my work and judging it against pipes made by folk who have lots of machinery to aid them makes me feel a little nervous. The pipe John purchased from me had a huge amount of hours of filing and sanding, I couldn't say for sure but in excess of 28 hours just filing and sanding. I don't feel chaps with machinery cannot do what I am doing in the slightest, I am aware that what takes me say 10 hours to do they are able to do in around 20 minutes with machines. I've been told that I am "too close" to my work and am not being critical enough where it matters, then I get folk telling me I am being too critical, it's quite a head spinner to be honest Buddy.

I honestly cannot tell any more if my work is acceptable for sale or trade, I worry that if I put my work up for sale or trade and it isn't up to scratch that it will cause folk to lose faith in what I put up. This pipe to my mind is very much in a condition for it to be sold or in a trade but I already know what I will be told if I show it on one particular site, I will be told that it isn't up to scratch, but they all base their opinions on their own work and they all use heaps of machinery to do their work. I am not strictly speaking being too hard on myself Ken, I find myself worrying too much, like I say I feel it is a damn fine pipe, I know many folk here would agree with this but I also know there is this scary group of folk on another site who will readily tell me the the absolute opposite to this.

I think I shall put it up for sale or trade and see what comes of it, in contrast to this, I am currently working on the most unusual little pipe right now which I will have no doubts about putting up, wait when you see it, I had the craziest time drilling it, it isn't a traditional pipe shape and it has a very shallow chamber, it's the cutest little thing, I will tell more when it is done.
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BigCasino

BigCasino

Age : 51
Location : North of Pittsburgh pa
Registration date : 2012-11-27

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 10:29 am

Kirk if you are speaking of the "other " forum that I think you are speaking of , people aren't trying to be mean or nasty, they critique your work, it is very important for an artist/craftsman to have their work critiqued, whether you agree with the critique is another story.
Critiques help an artist/craftsman see through the admirer's eyes, to see flaws through them that you over looked yourself, with out critiques your work can not improve, and then work grows stale.
I know it's tough to put so many hours of work and love into your craft and to be proud of what you have done only to hear that you made a couple mistakes, or could have done things differently to get better results but that is what you need to hear so that you do not make the same mistake or so that you can change they way you have been doing things to get better results.
I have been selling my art to the general public for over 15 yrs, I am used to people judging my art, and that is what has made me better now than I was 15years ago, and of course my reputation depends on it.

as far as the other forum it bothers me when I post a picture of a pipe and no one critiques it and tells me how I could have improved on it, makes me feel like my work isn't even good enough to waste a critique on

and to be honest an artist/craftsman who doesnt think he needs to improve, or thinks he/she has already mastered their craft, well they may as well quit what ever they are doing, because that is the best they will ever be

Relax Kirk enjoy your craft!
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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 12:32 pm

You'll get no argument from me on that one Harry, I was trying to highlight that it depends where one posts as to what sort of response one gets. sunny 
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 74
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 1:42 pm

Briar Spirit wrote:
Such kind comments and overwhelming support, thank you very much chaps, I feel a whole lot more confident in this pipe now.
.......sold or in a trade but I already know what I will be told if I show it on one particular site, I will be told that it isn't up to scratch, but they all base their opinions on their own work and they all use heaps of machinery to do their work. I am not strictly speaking being too hard on myself Ken, I find myself worrying too much, like I say I feel it is a damn fine pipe, I know many folk here would agree with this but I also know there is this scary group of folk on another site who will readily tell me the the absolute opposite to this.
.
Kirk,
We have a saying over here on this side of the Big Pond : "put your money where your mouth is" so unless they are a paying customer, their criticism is worthless ! From what I've seen you are doing some GOOD, ORIGINAL work so keep it up and blow off the "armchair" critics!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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pepesdad1

pepesdad1

Age : 76
Location : Tallahassee, Florida
Registration date : 2013-03-03

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PostSubject: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:11 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Briar Spirit wrote:
Such kind comments and overwhelming support, thank you very much chaps, I feel a whole lot more confident in this pipe now.
.......sold or in a trade but I already know what I will be told if I show it on one particular site, I will be told that it isn't up to scratch, but they all base their opinions on their own work and they all use heaps of machinery to do their work. I am not strictly speaking being too hard on myself Ken, I find myself worrying too much, like I say I feel it is a damn fine pipe, I know many folk here would agree with this but I also know there is this scary group of folk on another site who will readily tell me the the absolute opposite to this.
.
Kirk,
We have a saying over here on this side of the Big Pond : "put your money where your mouth is" so unless they are a paying customer, their criticism is worthless ! From what I've seen you are doing some GOOD, ORIGINAL work so keep it up and blow off the "armchair" critics!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Exactly, critics can be critical, screw them!  You know what you can do...damn fine work.  I would be proud to own any of your pipes that I have seen.  That is why I wanted those last two (BSP 6 & 7).  They are certainly good enough for me to want to give it to a good friend.

It don't get better than that!

Love your work, Kirk!  Because you are the one doing it. Your heart and soul is in each work of art...and that is good enough for me.
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Puff Daddy
Moderator
Puff Daddy

Age : 55
Location : South of heaven
Registration date : 2007-12-09

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:18 pm

I remember some time back a guy made a post calling attention to an ebay auction he had listed for (if memory serves) an early Rad Davis pipe, really early. Rad chimed in with something to the effect of "God, I'd hoped nobody would notice that, it wasn't very good and it was really early in my carving career". But, the pipe sold, at least twice. Once when he first carved it, and again in that auction. Rad had gone on to become one of the best American carvers there is, but his early work was still his early work, and still worthy of a sale. Do your best, price it accordingly with it's quality and the market, and don't look back.

_________________
These are horrible times and all sorts of horrible people are prospering, but we must never let this disturb our equanimity or deflect us from our sacred duty to annoy and hinder them at every turn.
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Puff Daddy
Moderator
Puff Daddy

Age : 55
Location : South of heaven
Registration date : 2007-12-09

Church Warden Empty
PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:22 pm

BTW, I'm curious what you don't like about that pipe, looks fine.

_________________
These are horrible times and all sorts of horrible people are prospering, but we must never let this disturb our equanimity or deflect us from our sacred duty to annoy and hinder them at every turn.
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Kyle Weiss

Kyle Weiss

Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:44 pm

Kirky has "artist syndrome" with his works, he sees the flaws others cannot. It's a special kind of curse-vision that affects all of us creative types. tongue Believe me, I get it. I can't see the issue with it, but--it makes him happy, so there it is.

Kirk, how did you approach the stem? Did it come at that length in a kit or did you make it from segments, or...?

Cool
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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:42 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Kirk,
We have a saying over here on this side of the Big Pond : "put your money where your mouth is" so unless they are a paying customer, their criticism is worthless ! From what I've seen you are doing some GOOD, ORIGINAL work so keep it up and blow off the "armchair" critics!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
To be honest chap whilst on that site I felt very uncomfortable, I don't post there any more, I have eyes and I can see what's not right in my work, I'm learning and slowly improving all by my lonesome and that's how I have learned everything I know how to do, by myself, being judged by folk who use machines where I use hand tools really got on my nerves so I don't use the site now.

pepesdad1 wrote:
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Exactly, critics can be critical, screw them! You know what you can do...damn fine work. I would be proud to own any of your pipes that I have seen. That is why I wanted those last two (BSP 6 & 7). They are certainly good enough for me to want to give it to a good friend.

It don't get better than that!

Love your work, Kirk! Because you are the one doing it. Your heart and soul is in each work of art...and that is good enough for me.
Walt, you always bring a ray of sunshine into my life, if you were here I'd give ya a big ol'manly hug mate, thank you.

Puff Daddy wrote:
BTW, I'm curious what you don't like about that pipe, looks fine.
The intersection from the shank to the bowl is not 100%, I have tried several times to get it right and all I managed to do was remove so much Briar I had to totally reshape the bowl. I personal adore this pipe but the bowl is too deep for me, I will literally never smoke it, I like smaller bowls and really don't like DGT.

Kyle Weiss wrote:
Kirky has "artist syndrome" with his works, he sees the flaws others cannot.  It's a special kind of curse-vision that affects all of us creative types.   tongue Believe me, I get it.  I can't see the issue with it, but--it makes him happy, so there it is.

Kirk, how did you approach the stem?  Did it come at that length in a kit or did you make it from segments, or...?  

Cool
Wow, that is exactly what my late Bro' used to say about me, he used to call me an "Arty twonk", didn't matter how well I did anything I was never happy with it and it used to drive him nuts.

The stem is a pre-made jobbie from Marco, I wont be buying them again as the stems by the bit are badly deformed and require a lot of very delicate work to put right, I got this one almost perfect but it's still not 100%, but it's okay. I have another stem just like it actually but I don't think I'll use it, shame really as Marco does absolutely the 'BEST' pre-made stems going, they are GORGEOUS and so perfectly formed, they require very minimal work, a bit of fine sanding to get a nice buff, the bits are perfect right out of the box, his attention to detail is first rate.
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Kyle Weiss

Kyle Weiss

Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 4:02 pm

"Arty twonk."   Heh.   Laughing 

Well, regardless of your list of frustrations with the finished product, good job.  You'll just have to accept that as a compliment.   I love you

Cool
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Rob_In_MO

Rob_In_MO

Age : 46
Location : Park Hills, MO
Registration date : 2011-01-19

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 4:24 pm

Briar Spirit wrote:
I personal adore this pipe but the bowl is too deep for me, I will literally never smoke it, I like smaller bowls and really don't like DGT.
Then shoot me a PM with a price and we'll see where it goes from there.
I'll damn well make sure it gets smoked - regularly. Cool
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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 6:31 pm

Rob_In_MO wrote:
Briar Spirit wrote:
I personal adore this pipe but the bowl is too deep for me, I will literally never smoke it, I like smaller bowls and really don't like DGT.
Then shoot me a PM with a price and we'll see where it goes from there.
I'll damn well make sure it gets smoked - regularly.  Cool
PM sent Rob. Wink
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Hawker

Hawker

Age : 54
Location : Alberta
Registration date : 2012-05-15

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:05 pm

Nice work Kirk. I hear were your coming from finding imperfections in your work. I always fret over little shit when i'm making something, spend hours fixing or redoing it just to have my wife tell me she can't see the difference when i'm done and why did you waste so much time "fixing it". Doing things by hand the hard way untill you can afford the tools you want to make it faster/easier i have nothing but respect for you brother. Keep up the nice work and if Rob doesn't want the warden PM me the price.
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 74
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:42 pm

Kirk,
Something that is happening in the process you are going thru is that you are learning truly HOW to shape and make a pipe BY HAND. With this knowledge and FEEL for what you want to accomplished, when you do aquire the MACHINERY to do the work, you will be sooooooo far ahead of others. Stay with it as you are doing JUST FINE !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil 
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AJ

AJ

Age : 71
Location : East of the Rocky Mountains
Registration date : 2012-03-18

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 8:25 pm

Kirk my comment is taken from an old TV commercial and is somewhat paraphrased but it applies to you like no other. You're are gaining your skills and knowledge the old fashioned way. You're earning them. Nuff said. Smile 

AJ
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huffelpuff

huffelpuff

Age : 49
Location : Laramie, WY
Registration date : 2011-12-10

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 8:34 pm

Now then Kirk, that is one stunning piece of work! I get you being gun shy about your work. Especially if folks were over zealous in picking it apart. I hope that you don't let that ever stop you from doing what you so obviously love. You have a talent for this. Listen to your heart and the wood and you will do wonderful things. Sure there are things you'd do differently, or improvements you'd like to make but as long as you apply that to your future work then you've succeeded. I personally love the look of this one.

Jim
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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 51
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyThu Sep 05, 2013 3:17 am

Thank you for the kind comments, it always touches my heart when you guys are so good with me, I reckon most of us here can relate to this but I have spent so many years being told how shite I am at everything that having friend here like you guys is rather like being reborn into a caring and loving family.


Hawker, I get the same thing from SWMBO, I show her a pipe which I see as being hours of more filing and shaping away from being finished and she tells me it looks fantastic, then i show her the pipe when i consider it being finished and she asks me what I've done outside of waxing it. I'm not so sure I want to progress forward to using lots of machines, I feel quite sure that once I can afford some high quality hand tools my labours will be lessened significantly, baby steps is the saying of the day I think. Rob has opted to go ahead with purchasing this pipe my friend, worry not though, there are many more yet to come. Smile


Monbla, your words of encourage are heart warming indeed, thank you so much for your kindness, I have already fathomed a great many aspects of working the wood just doing things my own way, I found the more I tried to learn from others regarding carving the more lost I got so now I am walking my own path, it is costly in terms of the amount of blocks I have messed up and am turning into tampers eventually but I feel i have learnt some solid and very valuable lessons along the way, the knowledge I have gathered so far is firmly set in my mind and I am able to apply it with confidence each time i reach for it, it feels 'ancient' and 'wholesome' somehow working wood the hard way, I like it.


Heya AJ, a man of few words who speaks volumes with each words offered, you my friend have essentially echoed my own sentiments, I wish I could spend some time with one of the 'old timers' in the world who has spent many a moon hand working wood, those guys have a wealth of experience which is slowly being lost in the world thanks to blasted machinery, wish I could keep some of it alive for a while myself.


Hi Jim, your words hold great meaning and also echo my own sentiments in many ways, self teaching may well be the longest road to travel but one thing is for sure, what ever new thing I learn to do I master in due course, the path may be more costly in some ways but it provides a constant and solid knowledge which I am slowly but surely building upon. I find doing the work by hand more 'spiritual' than anything else, allowing the wood to express itself in my imagination and then freeing that form from the wood is something I feel very connected to, yup, the end product doesn't look like a classical pipe but there are thousands of folk doing those, who needs anther joe blogg doing the same thing. Smile
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pepesdad1

pepesdad1

Age : 76
Location : Tallahassee, Florida
Registration date : 2013-03-03

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PostSubject: Church Warden   Church Warden EmptyThu Sep 05, 2013 10:39 am

Brother Kirk,

"I find doing the work by hand more 'spiritual' than anything else, allowing the wood to express itself in my imagination and then freeing that form from the wood is something I feel very connected to"
 The fact that you find that spirituality...is one of the reasons you have such a following...and you DO have a following.  The beautiful work that you do carries that spirituality through to the purchaser of your pipes.  I can't wait to receive the pipes that you have on hold for me.

Your work is so "strong" that the mere picture of it sends a message of pure love.  Sound strange?  Not really.
It is your message to the world...same with Briar Spirit website...same love and concern.

Keep up the great work...you have many behind you and supporting you.  Cause you are KIRK.  Briar Spirit and all.
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