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 Charatan 109 Special Bulldog

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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 7:45 pm

I grabbed this Charatan 109 Special this afternoon and was surprised when it didn't really go much past it's opening price.  I was only one of two bidders and it went $1 under my bid, whew.  I bought a 109 "Rough" a few months ago.  I was very much taken by the shape and it is one of my finest smokers.  I had hoped to find it in a higher grade but that model doesn't come up very often, so I was lucky here.  Hank Saitchi and I looked at this ebay ad at the Philly pipe club and he thought it would go a $100 higher than it did.  I guess an auction ending at 3 PM conspired to against the seller.

It really looks terrific and I hope it smokes half as good as my other 109, which is phenomenal.  A tapered stem bulldog is definitely one of my hallmark shapes.  The wife says this is a Christmas present, so I won't get to see it until then.

PS: I'll be listing that 109 Rough in the classifieds, if anyone is interested, along with some other pipes.

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Charatan_109_Special_eBay_zpsa535b992
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Charatan_109_Special_eBay5_zps2e53c44d
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Charatan_109_Special_eBay6_zpsae9b9029
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herbinedave

herbinedave

Age : 53
Location : Anthracite Coal Fields of PA
Registration date : 2012-03-14

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 8:05 pm

That is one fine looking Charatan. I would have a tough time waiting till Christmas!!!! Enjoy Al!!!!!
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alfredo_buscatti

alfredo_buscatti

Age : 64
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-17

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 8:15 pm

It looks like it has serrated, parallel lines on the bottom of the shank? If so I've never seen that before. Great catch. How long do you feel you'll go on taking down every classic Brit pipe out there? How big is your collection? Do you smoke all of them?
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RDPipes

RDPipes

Age : 65
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 8:17 pm

Nice little Doggie you have there Riff!
Nice clear grain and smooth lines
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http://rdpipes.briar.club/
riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 8:29 pm

Alfredo: They do all get smoked! Those lines you see on the bottom are a reflection off the bamboo like mat.

I'm trying to keep my total collection under 50 pipes, because I do fear beyond that, some just won't get used. So, look for some ads in the classifieds shortly, including the first 109, which is an incredible smoker.
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Brewdude
Moderator
Brewdude

Age : 66
Location : Arid-zona
Registration date : 2011-05-04

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 8:38 pm

You sure do know how to snag those great pipes Al!

 bounce 



Cheers,

RR

_________________
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin


Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Purple11x 2Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Bombx10  Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Bombx7Charatan 109 Special Bulldog D6bddf10 Charatan 109 Special Bulldog 44902965465_19121c84ed_s_d
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http://www.randereed.com
monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 9:31 pm

Out of the 26 Charatans I own, 12 are Specials and I have one Special Bulldog, a straight 12 38 and I LOVE it ! The Special series I think was the best all around model series they made. many are straight grain'd, they DON'T have fills and ALL of mine are some of the BEST smoking pipes I own  Razz  You got a FANTASTIC example of this series and a bent bulldog to boot !! Load that puppy up ans smoke the hell out of it, they LIKE to smoke  Twisted Evil   Twisted Evil 
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptySun Dec 15, 2013 10:53 pm

That's good to know monbla. My 109 is an incredible smoker, but now packed up and heading to Dave! I'm hoping this one is it's smoking equal.

The auction was a nail biter. I drove my daughter, our truck and a u-haul to Somerset PA today to pick up some of her furniture from a boyfriend. I was hoping to be back home by 2 PM and the auction ended at 3:45. Of course she was late, the move and storage of her stuff took a lot longer and I was still on the road at 3:30 PM. I pulled off the interstate to make the bid and just got it in with literally a few seconds to go, whew! She asked what I was doing - winning a pipe auction! She just rolled her eyes...
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alfredo_buscatti

alfredo_buscatti

Age : 64
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-17

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 7:35 am

Al, in my eyes you are an estimable collector. By your dedication you get pipe after classic pipe that's important to you for a sum that doesn't break the bank. As an observer, it's fun to watch, and I have a kinship with your collection, as if in some undefined way I benefit from it along with you.

And you smoke them all! Very cool!
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 8:19 am

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
Al, in my eyes you are an estimable collector. By your dedication you get pipe after classic pipe that's important to you for a sum that doesn't break the bank. As an observer, it's fun to watch, and I have a kinship with your collection, as if in some undefined way I benefit from it along with you.

And you smoke them all! Very cool!

Interesting. Yes, I do not have an unlimited pipe fund and I'm careful in my purchases. I sold a total of five pipes last night to pay for recent purchases and at this point, if something is purchased, something needs to leave the nest. It's always a little difficult packing up a pipe I refurbished and enjoyed, but it's part of the process and it keeps me grounded and focused. It also limits purchases to pipes that are missing from my current collection (shapes/finishes) and not just another pretty face.
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Hawker

Hawker

Age : 53
Location : Alberta
Registration date : 2012-05-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 2:18 pm

Congrats Riff on a fine addition to the litter. Gotta luv them Doggies.
The way you won it with a last minute bid by a buck makes it all the sweeter. cheers
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rothnh



Location : Midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2012-08-26

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 2:52 pm

Great snag, Al! I know how much you're drawn to fine bulldogs. Enjoy and thanks for sharing!
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MisterE
Moderator
MisterE

Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 2:55 pm

Great haul! I'm very fond of my Charatans. In fact, I'd say they outsmoke my Dunhills pipe for pipe.  cheers 

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 7:16 pm

Thanks guys. The Special line is the top "Apprentice" grade for Charatan, but as the ad mentioned, it sure looks undergraded.
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 8:36 pm

riff raff wrote:
Thanks guys.  The Special line is the top "Apprentice" grade for Charatan, but as the ad mentioned, it sure looks undergraded.  

Many Specials were just that. That grade was just below the Executive and Distinction series and for what ever reason, many Specials could have been stamped a grade above what they were !! You know of coarse that many "experts" consider Charatans to be ".... miss drilled Golf Clubs" Oh well  Twisted Evil   Twisted Evil 
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyMon Dec 16, 2013 8:49 pm

Yep, I've heard Charlatan described as a drinking club with a pipe making problem....
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docwatson

docwatson

Location : Central Massachusetts and midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2008-03-21

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyTue Dec 17, 2013 10:19 am

I don't know where this "apprentice grade" crap ever came from but IMO it's BS.
That pipe is NO apprentice pipe, as all Charatan Pipes were considered High Grade. Even the lesser models like the Authentic, Perfection, Belvedere and such are all flawless pipes and never had fills. I have owned the complete line of pipes up to Supreme Grade and they are great smokes with beautiful workmanship and the best of briar. Unfortunately my collection doesn't go any higher than the Supreme Grade. Anything above that is a bit pricey for my wallet. LOL
That bulldog special is definitely undergraded IMO as others have stated. A really fine addition to your stable of smokers Al. Congrats.
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyTue Dec 17, 2013 10:30 pm

That is interesting Andy. I picked that up from the "Rare Memories" webpage, I can't remember who owns that site:
http://www.rarememories.com/Charatan.htm

docwatson wrote:
I don't know where this "apprentice grade" crap ever came from but IMO it's BS.
That pipe is NO apprentice pipe, as all Charatan Pipes were considered High Grade. Even the lesser models like the Authentic, Perfection, Belvedere and such are all flawless pipes and never had fills. I have owned the complete line of pipes up to Supreme Grade and they are great smokes with beautiful workmanship and the best of briar. Unfortunately my collection doesn't go any higher than the Supreme Grade. Anything above that is a bit pricey for my wallet. LOL
That bulldog special is definitely undergraded IMO as others have stated. A really fine addition to your stable of smokers Al. Congrats.
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MisterE
Moderator
MisterE

Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 12:28 am

docwatson wrote:
I don't know where this "apprentice grade" crap ever came from but IMO it's BS.
That pipe is NO apprentice pipe, as all Charatan Pipes were considered High Grade. Even the lesser models like the Authentic, Perfection, Belvedere and such are all flawless pipes and never had fills. I have owned the complete line of pipes up to Supreme Grade and they are great smokes with beautiful workmanship and the best of briar. Unfortunately my collection doesn't go any higher than the Supreme Grade. Anything above that is a bit pricey for my wallet. LOL
That bulldog special is definitely undergraded IMO as others have stated. A really fine addition to your stable of smokers Al. Congrats.

I would agree that Charatans tend to be undergraded. Dunhills, on the other hand, are often overgraded. A Charatan Special stamped Dunhill would be easily be graded a DR A or B.  (IMHO, naturally, for the PC crowd)

I did, however, read somewhere that apprentices were only allowed to produce the Belvedere line. Maybe a few Specials were made by the trainees, too. That might be why some refer to them as "apprentice grade" pipes. I own a Special Canadian which is without fills but quite really lopsided.  It might be one of those pipes turned after a multi-pint lunch, lol. It's a superb smoker, so I've come to love the lumpy thing.

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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docwatson

docwatson

Location : Central Massachusetts and midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2008-03-21

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 11:44 am

[quote="riff raff"]That is interesting Andy. I picked that up from the "Rare Memories" webpage, I can't remember who owns that site:

http://www.rarememories.com/Charatan.htm[quote]

Bruce Plumb from Oregon owns that site. I know him from the Charatan Collectors Club and have emailed him for a reply to see exactly where he got that information. There may be some truth to it, as I'm sure apprenticeships always started sweeping floors and graduating up the ladder to making pipes eventually and they probably did work on the lower grades. Right now, it's all speculation but it does make sense.

And concerning Charatan as a drinking club with a pipe making problem LOL the same used to hold true for Peterson's in Dublin. I know an old time collector that had personal connections with the management there and he told me that back in the 1980's he had to call them by 7 a.m. EST before they had their Guinness lunch. LOL
Sounds like a place that I would've like to work myself.  lol! 
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 7:43 pm

I love learning tidbits about the factories and sometimes, just plain old "lore". I had read that grade chart (and saved a PDF copy) and assumed it was gospel. This one gets delivered tomorrow, and I'm hoping it isn't lopsided! The wife said my daughters wanted to give me something for Christmas together, I mistakenly suggested this pipe, so now I won't see it until the 25th....
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MisterE
Moderator
MisterE

Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 10:02 pm

Here's the only reference I can find of the so-called apprentice pipes...

Ivy Ryan wrote:
Sandblasted pipes stamped Charatan's Make over London England and a number are one version of the famous "Rough" grade. These were apprentice pipes that didn't come out well enough to be graded but were still eminently smokable. To save the wood and give the less-well-off a quality smoke, Charatan would first hand rusticate the pipe gently, then sandblast it. (Due to Dunhill's patent, they couldn't simply blast the pipe, and the rustication made for a very different blast.) Other Roughs will turn up with any of the other markings mentioned previously, but they were still roughed because the grain was pitted or severely marred. For example, I have an Extra Large Made by Hand that has a bad flaw up the side; otherwise, it is a great Oom Paul shape. So it was roughed and stemmed by an apprentice and sold much cheaper than it would have gone as a Special or higher grade. Roughs were the absolute bottom of the old (pre-Dunhill) Charatan line.

http://pipedia.org/wiki/Memories_of_Charatan_Pipes_and_Notes_on_their_Dating

I went though some old threads looking for the article I was thinking of. It had a great explanation of how the grading and apprentice system worked at the Charatan shop. Hopefully it'll turn up.

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 11:23 pm

My other 109 was a "Rough" grade, it now belongs to herbindave.  If the new one smokes half as good as this one, I'll be tickled.

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Th_Charatan_109_Gallery_zps0a115512
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PlateauGuy

PlateauGuy

Location : PNW
Registration date : 2013-11-22

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 10:18 am

Beautiful pipe, Al.

Love a bent bulldog!
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docwatson

docwatson

Location : Central Massachusetts and midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2008-03-21

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 10:44 am

MisterE wrote:
Here's the only reference I can find of the so-called apprentice pipes...

Ivy Ryan wrote:
Sandblasted pipes stamped Charatan's Make over London England and a number are one version of the famous "Rough" grade. These were apprentice pipes that didn't come out well enough to be graded but were still eminently smokable.

http://pipedia.org/wiki/Memories_of_Charatan_Pipes_and_Notes_on_their_Dating

I went though some old threads looking for the article I was thinking of. It had a great explanation of how the grading and apprentice system worked at the Charatan shop. Hopefully it'll turn up.

@Mr. E and Al,
I have to say that my statement calling apprentice pipes BS is not BS after all!!! I stand corrected. LOL
And thanks for the replies about this guys.

But the quote above from pipedia.org has been retracted because many of Ivy Ryan's statements concerning Charatan Pipes have been found to be unsubstantiated and false. The idea of apprentice made pipes is just hearsay but makes very much sense and many think that is why some lower grade Charatan pipes (Belvedere, some Freehand relief sandblasted pipes, Specials) are found to be less symmetrical or oddly shaped. After discussing this with some of the more expert Charatan collectors recently they agree that this is how apprenticeship pipe makers worked their way up the ladder making some of the lower grade pipes eventually becoming a full fledged pipe maker graduating to the High Grade Executives, Supremes, etc.  So now I am going on a hunt to see how many apprentice made pipes I can find!!! Kidding of course.

And Al, if that Bent Bulldog Charatan you bought is an apprentice made pipe it certainly is a beauty nonetheless.  Very Happy
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