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 Charatan 109 Special Bulldog

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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 8:57 am

I'd read the same about the Ivy Ryan article and wasn't sure how much it could be trusted. But, it does make sense.
The wife is holding this one until Christmas Day, so I'll know how it smokes in one week.
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MisterE
Moderator
MisterE

Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 11:26 am

I did find links to the article I had read but they´re all 404's now. Bummer.  Neutral 

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 12:35 pm

I bought my first Charatan, a Belvedere Banker back in '71 and I never saw any pipes marked "Rough" series wise back then. The last Charatan I bought was in '79 a Special Extra Large Pot and this shape chart and pricing /series guide was what I always knew was what Charatan made and these retail prices remained pretty consistent through the '70s. The highest series I have are two Executives and about 6 Reliefs in various styles.

http://www.tecon-gmbh.de/info_pages.php?pages_id=121%3FosCsid%3D093163f4f79f9136b21700ce1bdf1f80&language=en&osCsid=28818b9eab896a9fc57621f11a90566a
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 12:42 pm

My pipe is not marked "Rough", but apparently ungraded or unstamped pipes were known as "Rough" pipes.
If my new one doesn't smoke as well as that Rough, I may be coming after Dave! <g>
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 12:56 pm

riff raff wrote:
My pipe is not marked "Rough", but apparently ungraded or unstamped pipes were known as "Rough" pipes.  
If my new one doesn't smoke as well as that Rough, I may be coming after Dave! <g>

I have two Relief Grains, one a tanshell finish, and the other a dark brown shell finish which are unstamped series wise, but were sold as I was told as the lesser priced "Relief Grain" back when I bought them. I don't think I paid much over $40.00 apiece for them back then. I've always heard the blasted series of pipes refered to as "Relief Grains", this is the first reference to a "Rough" series I've heard of ! Shocked 
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MisterE
Moderator
MisterE

Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 1:02 pm

That could be one of the reasons why the Ivy Ryan article is considered questionable by some? I've never heard the tern "Rough" used either. Maybe it was just a term they used inside the factory and they labeled them Relief Grain for sale?

Who knows. Lore, lore, lore....

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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docwatson

docwatson

Location : Central Massachusetts and midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2008-03-21

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 2:36 pm

The term "rough" is just something used to describe an otherwise "apprentice pipe". Another term that I find derogatory. LOL
You will never see a Charatan marked/stamped "rough" IMO.
I've seen literally thousands of Charatan pipes in my 30+ years of collecting and never encountered such a stamping.
Although I have seem some heavily smoked pipes that I would consider rough.  lol! 
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herbinedave

herbinedave

Age : 53
Location : Anthracite Coal Fields of PA
Registration date : 2012-03-14

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 2:59 pm

Whatever one wants to call this nice Charatan 109 Blast, I call it a dandy SMOKER!
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rothnh



Location : Midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2012-08-25

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 7:27 pm

You lucked out on that Charatan, Dave -- no doubt an excellent smoker  Smile 
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 9:24 pm

herbinedave wrote:
Whatever one wants to call this nice Charatan 109 Blast, I call it a dandy SMOKER!

I knew you'd be pleased, I was just kidding about coming after you! <g>
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herbinedave

herbinedave

Age : 53
Location : Anthracite Coal Fields of PA
Registration date : 2012-03-14

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 20, 2013 6:18 am

riff raff wrote:
herbinedave wrote:
Whatever one wants to call this nice Charatan 109 Blast, I call it a dandy SMOKER!

I knew you'd be pleased, I was just kidding about coming after you!  <g>
I know that Al!!! Smile 
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Charatan 2109 Special   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 10:11 am

Dave's 109 is safe!  I opened this up on Christmas morning and smoked it for the first time today. As promised by the seller, it needed cleaned but was in overall excellent condition. The bowl is slightly out of round, near the shank, but that would the only complaint. I tuned the stem up a little as it was a little rough. I'd rather get a pipe that requires this bit of work than to have someone damage it.

It passes a thick cleaner easily and smoked quite well. I love the rubber in older Charatan stems. It is stamped a 2109, not a 109 as I have in the title.

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special1_zpsaa61c651
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special_zpsaf939acd
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special2_zps87c1e662
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special3_zpsa1463ab6


Last edited by riff raff on Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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herbinedave

herbinedave

Age : 53
Location : Anthracite Coal Fields of PA
Registration date : 2012-03-14

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 10:36 am

riff raff wrote:
Dave's 109 is safe!  I opened this up on Christmas morning and smoked it for the first time today. As promised by the seller, it needed cleaned but was in overall excellent condition. The bowl is slightly out of round, near the shank, but that would the only complaint. I tuned the stem up a little as it was a little rough. I'd rather get a pipe that requires this bit of work than to have someone damage it.

It passes a thick cleaner easily and smoked quite well. I love the rubber in older Charatan stems. It is stamped a 2109, not a 109 as I have in the title.

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special1_zpsaa61c651
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special_zpsaf939acd
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Th_Charatan_2109_Special2_zps87c1e662
Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Charatan_2109_Special3_zpsa1463ab6
Glad all worked out for you Al!!  cheers  cheers  cheers 




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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 10:48 am

The first number in Charatan style numbers indicates its bowl size. A number 2 for them would have been a grp 3 or 4 in the equivalent Dunhill style and back in the 70's even Charatan called a bent bulldog a Rhodesian!! I have a 3109 bent "Rhodsian" in both the dark brown and black Relief Grain ( rough as is the currently used description though never used by Charatan  Twisted Evil )  as well as a 2109 in a Distinction grade. You got one DAMN FINE Charatan if it smokes as good as mine !! Way ta go   cheers
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 2:17 pm

That is interesting Monblac. I didn't know the significance of the 2 in the first digit of the shape number.
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 3:48 pm

riff raff wrote:
That is interesting Monblac.  I didn't know the significance of the 2 in the first digit of the shape number.

They sized their standard shapes 1 thru 4 which were NOT equivalent to Dunhill's group sizes as Charatan's numbers were around a 1/2 to full size LARGER than a correspondingly numbered Dunnie.
Here's a reference shape and price wise of their standard shapes back in 1970  that might help. It's a copy of the "catalog/brochure" available at B&M's at that time. I have a couple I picked up filed away.

http://www.tecon-gmbh.de/info_pages.php?pages_id=121%3FosCsid%3D093163f4f79f9136b21700ce1bdf1f80&language=en&osCsid=28818b9eab896a9fc57621f11a90566a
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Thanks monblac, I saved a copy of that grade/price chart.  It even shows the Special line.
I did not know that Charatan has a size standard.
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 7:12 pm

riff raff wrote:
Thanks monblac, I saved a copy of that grade/price chart.  It even shows the Special line.
I did not know that Charatan has a size standard.  

Can't really say what it is today. THAT is what it WAS back at that time. Remember, they are now made and marketed by the multy brand factory that Dunhill owns. ( Hardcastle, Parker and such). As to whether the new Charatans made today still follow that sizing I don't know .  Twisted Evil
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riff raff

riff raff

Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 7:54 pm

monbla256 wrote:
riff raff wrote:
Thanks monblac, I saved a copy of that grade/price chart.  It even shows the Special line.
I did not know that Charatan has a size standard.  

Can't really say what it is today. THAT is what it WAS back at that time. Remember, they are now made and marketed by the multy brand factory that Dunhill owns. ( Hardcastle, Parker and such). As to whether the new Charatans made today still follow that sizing I don't know .  Twisted Evil

Based on those prices, I assumed it was a chart from a bygone era!
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charatan 109 Special Bulldog   Charatan 109 Special Bulldog - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 26, 2013 8:53 pm

For sure!! My $45.00 Special Group 3 Pots back in 1970 ( date of the price list) would retail at $ 209.91 today !! Twisted Evil
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