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oldbear58

oldbear58

Age : 124
Location : Misplaced in southern California
Registration date : 2013-11-12

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PostSubject: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 2:48 am

I have begun experimenting with small batch pressure type fermentation.

So far I am only using a commercial burley and one pint wide-mouth jars.

Perique style fermentation 8clamp10


We will see how this works in a year or so!

Oldbear
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millerman

millerman

Age : 44
Location : Dry Fork, VA
Registration date : 2013-02-01

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 7:48 am

That's cool. I'm not all that familiar with the process. Do you just press the tobacco by itself? You don't have to add anything to it? Do you have to keep it at any certain temperature or humidity? Thanks in advance fer yer time.
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flyguy

flyguy

Age : 68
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2013-11-23

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 3:36 pm

Oldbear, I admire your willingness to experiment. Best wishes on your success!
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oldbear58

oldbear58

Age : 124
Location : Misplaced in southern California
Registration date : 2013-11-12

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PostSubject: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 2:34 am

I don't know how this will work, but I am experimenting and keeping notes.

I will let you know how it smokes!

Oldbear
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Aristokles



Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Registration date : 2010-10-02

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 7:38 am

That should be interesting. Perique is usually fermented in leaf form of Green River burley, turned over several times, over months. It gets very smelly.
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huffelpuff

huffelpuff

Age : 49
Location : Laramie, WY
Registration date : 2011-12-10

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 11:24 am

Wishing you the best of luck on this project man! Keep us posted.

Jim
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oldbear58

oldbear58

Age : 124
Location : Misplaced in southern California
Registration date : 2013-11-12

Perique style fermentation Empty
PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 8:03 pm

Aristokles wrote:
That should be interesting. Perique is usually fermented in leaf form of Green River burley, turned over several times, over months. It gets very smelly.

Have you or someone you know tried it? I have seen the perique facility in Convent, LA, but would love to hear of experience of others.

So far my samples have turned very dark brown with a black/brown liquid exuding from the top. The smell is pleasant tobacco-y odor, perhaps slightly fruity, but after one week I am not going to open the jar up and upset the fermentation.

Oldbear
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Aristokles



Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Registration date : 2010-10-02

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 8:24 am

oldbear58 wrote:
Aristokles wrote:
That should be interesting. Perique is usually fermented in leaf form of Green River burley, turned over several times, over months. It gets very smelly.

Have you or someone you know tried it? I have seen the perique facility in Convent, LA, but would love to hear of experience of others.

So far my samples have turned very dark brown with a black/brown liquid exuding from the top. The smell is pleasant tobacco-y odor, perhaps slightly fruity, but after one week I am not going to open the jar up and upset the fermentation.

Oldbear

If I am not mistaken (and I often am), there is a piece somewhere over on pipemagazine.com about perique making. Reading that, there was no way I would attempt it even if I could get the leaf stock. You're a better man than I.
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oldbear58

oldbear58

Age : 124
Location : Misplaced in southern California
Registration date : 2013-11-12

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PostSubject: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:54 am

Today I opened one jar of my pressure fermentation to see what was happening. The tobacco was jarred for 15 days under pressure.

The tobacco had darkened considerably and a molasses-like residue had formed at the top of the jar.

The odor was sweet, a bit fruity, but otherwise a pleasant tobacco. I removed the contents to see if it was all uniform, then repacked it and re-pressurized it, leaving out a small sample to smoke.

After drying out my sample smoked fine. It had a slight bite with a weak, pleasant nutty flavor. Toward the end of the bowl I had a perique-ish sour note. The pH of the smoke tested at about 6.0.

Perhaps the temperature of my shop was too cool to get any real fermentation, but the pleasant initial result suggests more experimentation is in order.

Oldbear
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U-235

U-235

Registration date : 2013-10-29

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyMon Mar 24, 2014 6:33 pm

oldbear58, I like your setup. It is quite simple and practical for a small batch. My only concern is using a glass jar under such high pressures. But I guess it is working out for you.

I grow tobacco, but I never tried to make perique. I would like to give it a try this year. You mentioned that you used Burley. I am growing three Burleys: Yellow Twist Bud, Burley 21, and Green Brior. I am also growing a dark air variety Madole along with some Virginias, Cigar leaf and some Izmir-Ozbas. Do you recommend using a particular variety? Also, do you start with freshly picked green leaf or do you use cured whole leaf tobacco?
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oldbear58

oldbear58

Age : 124
Location : Misplaced in southern California
Registration date : 2013-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyTue Mar 25, 2014 1:24 am

U-235 wrote:
oldbear58, I like your setup.  It is quite simple and practical for a small batch.  My only concern is using a glass jar under such high pressures.  But I guess it is working out for you.

I grow tobacco, but I never tried to make perique.  I would like to give it a try this year.  You mentioned that you used Burley.  I am growing three Burleys: Yellow Twist Bud, Burley 21, and Green Brior.  I am also growing a dark air variety Madole along with some Virginias, Cigar leaf and some Izmir-Ozbas.  Do you recommend using a particular variety?  Also, do you start with freshly picked green leaf or do you use cured whole leaf tobacco?

Dear U,

Someone on another forum claimed that "perique is a process, not a type of tobacco", this may be partially true.

The farmers in Louisiana claim that any tobacco grown in their area will "convert" to perique.  I suspect that "perique" is a local variety of burley that has a lot of nicotine and is hardy enough to stand the very humid Louisiana climate.  Any other strain brought there will cross pollinate and select to acquire the traits of "perique".

The producers in Louisiana apparently have had some trouble with consistency in their product and for many years have been blending their tobaccos with green brior or other types of tobacco with good luck.  Most of the buyers and smokers have not complained.

The leaves are usually air cured on the stalk (14 days?) and deveined before wetting and packing.  They use several packings and apply pressure over time to get 500 lbs of tobacco into the large whiskey barrels.  The tobacco is not wetted much, probably to the point it would mold if not packed into air-tight barrels, but not unusually soggy, just damp.  If you apply enough pressure you can squeeze juice from the leaves, the jacks used are 20 ton house jacks.  If they are functioning at half of their capacity then you have 10 tons or 20,000 lbs of pressure.  On a 22 inch diameter barrel you would have 380 square inches giving you about 52 lbs per square inch of pressure.  In my 3 1/2 inch canning jars, with 7 square inches I would need 368 lbs of pressure.  My 8 inch C clamps probably aren't doing quite that much, they can just barely extrude juice, which is probably enough.  I have not been able to crack a jar yet, though I am trying.

The temperature is probably important.  In my shop current temperatures rarely get up to 80 F in winter, though it can get up to the 90s in summer.  I have not yet tried applying heat.

The tobacco is opened up and aired out to release unwanted gasses or ammonia after a while; I believe after 3 months it is turned, but that information I don't have.  It is usually turned about three times, then left in the barrel for a full year or longer.  Poshe has 10 year old barrels aging, though most is sold after one year (the processors probably age it further).

In the end buying 6 oz. from McClelland would probably be simpler, but not as much fun.

My information is mostly from the Russ Oulette articles and a recent visit to the Poshe facility.

Oldbear
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millerman

millerman

Age : 44
Location : Dry Fork, VA
Registration date : 2013-02-01

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyTue Mar 25, 2014 10:53 am

Cool. Thanks fer the info, man. Sounds like a lot of fun. I may try this one day. Please keep the updates coming.
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U-235

U-235

Registration date : 2013-10-29

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyTue Mar 25, 2014 6:31 pm

Thanks oldbear for your informative response. One of these days I would like to try it on a relatively small scale. For now, it's perique from an online vendor. I have seen seeds labeled "perique" from online tobacco seed vendors. This gave me the impression that perique was a specific variety. However, perique is much like cavendish in that cavendish refers to a process also. Good luck with making your own perique. Please posts updates - I will be following this thread.
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 74
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyWed Mar 26, 2014 7:33 pm

According to Wiki Pedia it seems most of the Perique we smoke in blends/mixtures made today use a "Perique type" of processed green river burley. As little of the "real deal" as is grown and processed today, it's hard to imagine otherwise. Here's what is written on WP :

"The tobacco plants are manually kept suckerless and pruned to exactly 12 leaves through their early growth. In late June, when the leaves are a dark, rich green and the plants are 24-30 inches (600 to 750 mm) tall, the whole plant is harvested in the late evening and hung to dry in a sideless curing barn. Once the leaves have partially dried but are still supple (usually less than 2 weeks in the barn), any remaining dirt is removed and the leaves are moistened with water and stemmed by hand. The leaves are then rolled into "torquettes" of approximately 1 pound (450 g) and packed into hickory whiskey barrels. The tobacco is kept under pressure using oak blocks and massive screw jacks, forcing nearly all the air out of the still-moist leaves. Approximately once a month the pressure is released, and each of the torquettes is worked by hand to permit a little air back into the tobacco. After a year of this treatment, the perique is ready for consumption, although it may be kept fresh under pressure for many years. Extended exposure to air degrades the particular character of perique. The finished tobacco is dark brown - nearly black - very moist with a fruity, slightly vinegary aroma.[1] The fruity aroma is the result of hundreds of volatile compounds created by anaerobic fermentation of the tobacco. Many of these are responsible for the flavors of fruits and are often found in wine.[2]

Often considered the truffle of pipe tobaccos, perique is used as a component of various blended pipe tobaccos, as many people consider it too strong to be smoked pure. At one time, the fresh and moist perique was also chewed, but none is now sold for this purpose. Fewer than 16 acres (65,000 m²) of this crop remain in cultivation. Most Louisiana perique is cultivated by farmer Percy Martin in Grande Pointe, Louisiana.[3] Although at its peak Saint James Parish was producing around 20 tons of perique a year, output is now merely a few barrelsful. Most of the perique used in pipe tobacco is not perique at all, but green river burley that is processed in the same manner as perique. Although the process produces a strong, spicy tobacco, it is a far different product from the genuine perique grown on Percy Martin's and the Poche family's farms.
 Pierre Chenet's grand daughter, Coralie Decareau, married Celestin Poche in February, 1829, and the Poche family has been involved in the cultivation and processing of Perique tobacco through current times. There are currently only three farmers who grow tobacco commercially in Saint James Parish."

I would also venture to say that the used hickory whiskey barrels add something flavor wise in the process  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
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oldbear58

oldbear58

Age : 124
Location : Misplaced in southern California
Registration date : 2013-11-12

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PostSubject: Perique style fermentation   Perique style fermentation EmptyWed Mar 26, 2014 9:14 pm

Having played with whiskey barrels as planters I know that a lot of booze remains, but only the outside leaves are in contact with the barrel and often very old barrels are used for early processing.

While I was there the process I saw or was told was very similar to the Wikipedia report. I didn't want to ask too may questions, but they are blending with other types of tobacco which is much more reliable; remember this is very southern Louisiana and curing can be nearly impossible with 90% humidity 90% of the time. Probably safer to ship in a few tons of well cured leaf and barrel that. But the local farmers are definitely growing, planting and processing perique.

Oldbear
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