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 Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...

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PeterD

PeterD

Age : 67
Location : SE Tennessee
Registration date : 2012-06-04

PostSubject: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:32 am

...OK...I get the fact that Esoterica Tobaccos are in short supply...what I don't get nor approve, is that several retailers take extreme advantage of what supply they have...I was looking to buy some "Brighton" and what I would normally pay for 8 oz. is about $24.00. P&C as well as The Pipe Guys are charging $49.99 and $35.90 respectively.

"Supply & Demand" is one thing..."Price Gouging" is quite another...I know this is my "rant"...but as business goes, I would think a retailer would want to "foster fairness and equity" which would create far better long term sales...
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Puff Daddy
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Puff Daddy

Age : 54
Location : South of heaven
Registration date : 2007-12-09

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:36 am

To be fair, we don't know what the distributor is charging them for it.

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These are horrible times and all sorts of horrible people are prospering, but we must never let this disturb our equanimity or deflect us from our sacred duty to annoy and hinder them at every turn.
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RDPipes

RDPipes

Age : 65
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:49 am

PeterD wrote:
...OK...I get the fact that Esoterica Tobaccos are in short supply...what I don't get nor approve, is that several retailers take extreme advantage of what supply they have...I was looking to buy some "Brighton" and what I would normally pay for 8 oz. is about $24.00. P&C as well as The Pipe Guys are charging $49.99 and $35.90 respectively.

"Supply & Demand" is one thing..."Price Gouging" is quite another...I know this is my "rant"...but as business goes, I would think a retailer would want to "foster fairness and equity" which would create far better long term sales...

I agree Peter, and we as consumers shouldn't do business with anyone that treats
there customers this way. There is only one reason for this and it's greed, I hope they
can take there money to hell with them. Wink
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Carlos
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Carlos

Age : 61
Location : Chestnut, IL
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:09 am

Puff Daddy beat me to the punch. And he's very right. I suspect we will just about always have an Esoterica prices thread running. The last big one is on page 3. I think there were a couple smaller ones.

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"Never turn your back on a Breen".
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Richard Burley

Richard Burley

Location : North Coast NY
Registration date : 2011-04-09

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:54 am

Pooooor babies!...sob! My heart goes out to youse!
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beardedbassguy

beardedbassguy

Age : 39
Location : Texas
Registration date : 2014-11-05

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:28 am

Threads like this make me glad I smoke Aros P )
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d4klutz

d4klutz

Age : 41
Location : Gilmer, TX
Registration date : 2014-01-23

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:34 am

If you think P&C is bad, check out ebay for stonehaven. I saw some buy it now for $200 the other day! That is price gouging. I paid $35 for 8oz of Stonehaven when I was in Denver last month. I thought it was a good deal. I do think that $50 for 8oz is a bit of price gouging, just like $35 for a 1.76 oz of Balkan Sobraine is. But, as much as I disagree with the pricing, it is not illegal. It is just immoral. Morality cannot be legislated. I just chose another retailer.
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RDPipes

RDPipes

Age : 65
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:35 am

Richard, And that is why we as a country will never stop government and or big business
from treating us as sheep because none of us will ever stick together to do what really needs to be done. The attitude is, "Well it's not hurting me so why should I care?" When we all know what there doing is wrong, no matter how you look at it. Of course there are some I think must be brain washed to think what they do.
If people would stick together and boycott establishments that gouge pricing there wouldn't be any cause they couldn't sell there product or enough of it to make it worth while.
That goes for government also, if just 75% of the population stood up and said "We aint taking this anymore!" and really did something about it, I'm sure things would improve.
But, that'll never happen because of self-centeredness and greed.That's all I have to say. Wink
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:35 am

PeterD wrote:
...OK...I get the fact that Esoterica Tobaccos are in short supply...what I don't get nor approve, is that several retailers take extreme advantage of what supply they have...I was looking to buy some "Brighton" and what I would normally pay for 8 oz. is about $24.00. P&C as well as The Pipe Guys are charging $49.99 and $35.90 respectively.

"Supply & Demand" is one thing..."Price Gouging" is quite another...I know this is my "rant"...but as business goes, I would think a retailer would want to "foster fairness and equity" which would create far better long term sales...

This is why there is ketchup !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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RDPipes

RDPipes

Age : 65
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:39 am

monbla256 wrote:
PeterD wrote:
...OK...I get the fact that Esoterica Tobaccos are in short supply...what I don't get nor approve, is that several retailers take extreme advantage of what supply they have...I was looking to buy some "Brighton" and what I would normally pay for 8 oz. is about $24.00. P&C as well as The Pipe Guys are charging $49.99 and $35.90 respectively.

"Supply & Demand" is one thing..."Price Gouging" is quite another...I know this is my "rant"...but as business goes, I would think a retailer would want to "foster fairness and equity" which would create far better long term sales...

This is why there is ketchup !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

When they start gouging Ketchup, what will you say? scratch
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Richard Burley

Richard Burley

Location : North Coast NY
Registration date : 2011-04-09

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:53 am

Why should anyone sell X commodity for less than they can get for it? I don't get it. The Esoterica blends are underpriced. If you want the price to come down and the availability to increase, stop buying the crap. I did, and I can't say I miss it. It just ain't that good.
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:57 am

Cartaphilus wrote:
monbla256 wrote:
PeterD wrote:
...OK...I get the fact that Esoterica Tobaccos are in short supply...what I don't get nor approve, is that several retailers take extreme advantage of what supply they have...I was looking to buy some "Brighton" and what I would normally pay for 8 oz. is about $24.00. P&C as well as The Pipe Guys are charging $49.99 and $35.90 respectively.

"Supply & Demand" is one thing..."Price Gouging" is quite another...I know this is my "rant"...but as business goes, I would think a retailer would want to "foster fairness and equity" which would create far better long term sales...

This is why there is ketchup !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

When they start gouging Ketchup, what will you say? scratch

As a supporter of Capitolism, which is based on Greed, I can find no fault with 'em! From an ETHICAL point of view I don't agree but the two are mutually un compatable!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil In answer to your question, if I want ketchup I pay what it costs. That's life ! Onward Thru the Fog ! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Dutch

Dutch

Age : 53
Location : On the road.......
Registration date : 2010-11-06

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:05 pm

I do enjoy Penzance when I get the opportunity. However, we have so many quality tobaccos to choose from. Produced from reputable blenders who bend over backwards and go the extra mile in producing probably the best variety of tobaccos ever available to pipe smokers.

The more I think about the situation, the less it concerns me.
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idbowman

idbowman

Age : 36
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:02 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
To be fair, we don't know what the distributor is charging them for it.

Yep yep yep. Esoterica is a brand known for it's high demand and similarly high prices. I would have to imagine that the manufacturers and distributors are keenly aware of this, and leverage that demand to create high profits on their end (if they're not, they need a new business advisor).

The blender takes its profit when it sells it to the distributor.
The distributor has to increase the cost to the retailer to cover its own expenses and make its own profit.
The retailer has to increase the cost to the customer to cover what it pays the distributor and still find profit.

If I had to guess, I'd think that P&C (and everyone else) is realizing a similar (perhaps slightly greater) profit margin (%) on the Esotericas as other tinned/pouched blends...the difference is that all of the other built in costs drive the retail pricing up, otherwise it's not worth selling.


Anyone expecting any tobacco product (let alone a brand with Esoterica's reputation, demand, and cult following) to be some sort of a loss-leader is fooling themselves.
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Simple Man

Simple Man

Age : 57
Location : North of Atlanta, South of Chattanooga
Registration date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:18 pm

idbowman wrote:
Puff Daddy wrote:
To be fair, we don't know what the distributor is charging them for it.

Yep yep yep.  Esoterica is a brand known for it's high demand and similarly high prices.  I would have to imagine that the manufacturers and distributors are keenly aware of this, and leverage that demand to create high profits on their end (if they're not, they need a new business advisor).

The blender takes its profit when it sells it to the distributor.
The distributor has to increase the cost to the retailer to cover its own expenses and make its own profit.
The retailer has to increase the cost to the customer to cover what it pays the distributor and still find profit.

If I had to guess, I'd think that P&C (and everyone else) is realizing a similar (perhaps slightly greater) profit margin (%) on the Esotericas as other tinned/pouched blends...the difference is that all of the other built in costs drive the retail pricing up, otherwise it's not worth selling.


Anyone expecting any tobacco product (let alone a brand with Esoterica's reputation, demand, and cult following) to be some sort of a loss-leader is fooling themselves.

I haven't got a horse in this race, as, as far as I can recall, I've never had any Esoterica tobacco, and at this point, am not actively seeking to buy any. But Ian, no offense, but your argument would only make sense to me if all of the retailers were charging this high premium when they get Penzance and Stonehaven in stock, but they are not. Recently when Iwan Ries had it and I think it was Milan also, they charged the average price for quality tinned tobacco, nothing like what P&C is charging. So if it's the fact that P&C is paying so much more for it, somebody needs to get on the horn and find out why.

Like I said, I don't care at this point as it's not a priority on my list. I do buy from P&C, because the tobaccos and pipes I've wanted from them have been priced reasonably and their service, for me anyway, has been stellar.

But, I reckon this argument will be going on for quite some time. Laughing
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JimInks

JimInks

Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2012-08-31

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:20 pm

I talked to several retailers about this a few months back when the price gouging started. They all told me that every vendor pays the same price for Esoterica products. So the excuse that different vendors pay different prices is untrue. If they tell you otherwise, they are not being honest.
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idbowman

idbowman

Age : 36
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:30 pm

Just to clarify, no one has told me anything about the prices they pay - I'd hate for anyone to read my post thinking I'd been given info from the retailers, and assume that makes them dishonest (in light of Jim's research).

As it turns out, it seems I'm wrong here. That said, I guess it goes back to the usual "if someone will pay for it..." argument.


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JimInks

JimInks

Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2012-08-31

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:33 pm

idbowman wrote:
Just to clarify, no one has told me anything about the prices they pay - I'd hate for anyone to read my post thinking I'd been given info from the retailers, and assume that makes them dishonest (in light of Jim's research).

As it turns out, it seems I'm wrong here.  That said, I guess it goes back to the usual "if someone will pay for it..." argument.



I understood where you were coming from. I originally posted my comment some time back when all this started, and your post gave me the impetus to repeat what I had learned from back then.
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RDPipes

RDPipes

Age : 65
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:53 pm

After reading many of the post here it seems I'm also correct.
There's a definite "If it don't affect me, I don't care attitude!"
So, don't anyone dare complain about anything that they could have fixed
by sticking together and doing something about it. And that about covers most
everything that is complained about here in one way or another. Wink
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puros_bran
Nightrider
puros_bran

Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:11 pm

What would you have us do Commander Cart? Boycott Esoterica? Well I haven't bought any of their product in 5 years...
Boycott Pipesandcigars? Never ordered from them..
Who else do I need to boycott?? Cause I'm tellin ya I have this down pat.

All I know is when I said 'guys quit supporting this nonsense' everyone got pissed at me... I quit saying saying 'guys quit supporting this nonsense' and I'm still wrong somehow.
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Simple Man

Simple Man

Age : 57
Location : North of Atlanta, South of Chattanooga
Registration date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Cartaphilus wrote:
After reading many of the post here it seems I'm also correct.
There's a definite "If it don't affect me, I don't care attitude!"
So, don't anyone dare complain about anything that they could have fixed
by sticking together and doing something about it. And that about covers most
everything that is complained about here in one way or another. Wink

We still love ya', Cart. Laughing

I went to compact vehicles during the first gas crisis, and you bastards kept driving big, comfortable suv's. Well, I ain't going back to compacts, I don't care what y'all say! Wink tongue
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RobJ

RobJ

Location : Mukilteo, Washington USA
Registration date : 2014-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:58 pm

So Ron, what would you have us do? I don't get gouged because I refuse to pay what I feel are unreasonable prices. So in effect I'm already protesting, though I don't think for a moment my protestation amounts to a blip on the vendor's radar (because others do pay the higher prices and perhaps then grumble about it on public forums).  geek

I suppose I could burn one of my wife's bras in protest but that would likely cause me untold grief at home.

Smile
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balkan_boy

balkan_boy

Age : 42
Location : Sofia, Bulgaria
Registration date : 2014-02-17

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:03 pm

It seems to me that you all get too emotional on it.

Just don't buy the stuff, and eventually they'll bring down the prices to the market level. No big deal. There's plenty of awesome tobacco out there, isn't that much of a loss.
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MisterE
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MisterE

Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:27 pm

I think the market will even itself out. If not now, eventually. For the moment, Esoterica and Balkan Sobranie are hot items people feel pressured to get. It will hit a ceiling and come back down. Maybe not in time for Christmas, though. Wink

Some of you will remember the FVF balloon about five years ago. There was the same Ebay gouging going on. However, FVF is again available and reasonably priced. Nobody "did" anything.

I think that's the nature of free market. Prices will always reflect what the market will bear. Don't think it's worth it? Don't buy it. Pretty soon many will come to the same conclusion and the spike will come back down. The dissent is already happening. This thread proves that.

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Briar Spirit

Briar Spirit

Age : 50
Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

PostSubject: Re: Price Gouging Esoterica Tobaccos...   Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:49 pm

The retailer can charge what they want for products, they owe nothing to any one, it's just business to them, why sell a product for $24 when people will pay $45, I don't like it either but that's just the way business is.

On a side note, I just can't connect with the general feeling about these blends you guys across the pond feel are over priced, 8oz (well, 250g with our measurements) here in the UK costs us around $90. So to us this $45 area of pricing is dirt cheap, this notion of $24 for 8oz is pure fantasy for folk here, if only we could get tobacco for next to nothing. Neutral
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