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 "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends

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scotties22

scotties22

Age : 37
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-06-10

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PostSubject: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 2:41 pm

I had a chance to talk to Mike McNeil at the Greater Kansas City Pipe Club meeting last night. I asked him about the tin note that his Va blends have since it is discussed here quite a bit. Mike gave me some answers I thought I would share.

The Red Va that Mike gets is grown to have a much higher sugar content than what other blenders use (on purpose!). The sugar content is so high that it actually starts to ferment after about 3 weeks once Mike has it in his facility.

After it is tinned Mike does not vacuum all the air out of the tins as many blenders do. He leaves a little air to help the fermentation along. The ketchup smell is actually the aromatic byproduct of fermentation. If any of you have cigars and have ever noticed a slight "off" smell as they go through a fermentation cycle it's the same thing.

Mike does indead tin McCranie's Red Ribbon and Flake. It is a tinned version of 5100 Red Cake.

I'm not trying to start some big ass complicated old man pissing contest......ssssooooooo please let's not get this thread locked within the first 24 hours. I just wanted to share what the man behind the curtain had to say.

I hope I have helped Twisted Evil
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
Registration date : 2011-04-09

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 2:56 pm

Locked or not, it's a great post, Scottie. I suspected something like this. Thanks for posting.
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DrumsAndBeer

DrumsAndBeer

Age : 46
Location : Northern, CA
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 3:24 pm

While the info about the source of the ketchup like aroma is not news to me, the info about McCranies Ribbon being tinned Red Cake is. In fact I am really surprised that he would share that info. That's real insider kind of stuff.

Thanks Scottie! I really like McCranies Red Ribbon. Now I know that jarring up some Red Cake for a spell at a fraction of the cost will probably yield very similar results. Very Happy Cool
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 3:56 pm

Have been smoking McC's Va's since 1994 and for me I NEVER smelled this famous KETCHUP aroma just the aroma of the Red V'a that I used to smell when I went to Durham with my uncle to sell his tobacco when I was a kid. It was told to me then that THATS what Red Va's smell like when FLUE CURED ! Greg Pease has written about this many times and yet folks just seem to want to perpetuate this idea !! Oh well Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
And as far as the Red Ribbon being the same as 5100 RC, for anyone who's smoked much of both can tell that they are the SAME !! But it's good to hear these facts from the "horses mouth" as they say ! Thanks Scottie !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil


Last edited by monbla256 on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Carlos
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Carlos

Age : 61
Location : Chestnut, IL
Registration date : 2007-12-10

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 3:56 pm

I kind of take "a tinned version" to mean similar to, but not exactly the same. Georgetown Tobacco has tinned versions also. I seem to recall them being smoother. Probably due to age in the tin. But it could also be differing years of crops. Or a slight blend adjustment.

It's all good stuff! sunny

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"Never turn your back on a Breen".
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Kyle Weiss

Kyle Weiss

Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 4:08 pm

scotties22 wrote:
I'm not trying to start some big ass complicated old man pissing contest......ssssooooooo please let's not get this thread locked within the first 24 hours.  I just wanted to share what the man behind the curtain had to say.

I hope I have helped Twisted Evil

lol!  

Yes you did, on both declarations.   Laughing    You rascal.

lol!  


My only qualms with his statements are "vacuuming all the air" out of a tin--of course he doesn't do that, I don't think anyone does.   Because they can't. From what I gather, the machinery wasn't designed to do that, it's just to hold the lid on and keep the product moist, stable & sealed for a while. There's always a little atmosphere in the tins, and (again) from my understanding on the Pease side of things, there should be.   Same goes with the fermenting part, a lot more (and different) processes go along with what tobacco does in any given tin.   It's a nuance.   The good news is, whatever process/leaf he uses, obviously it's a marker to the consistency of the product.   In others, it's kind of like working at a bakery (or a ketchup factory)--you don't smell what those not around it day-in and day-out smell.   So they get nothing.  

Something tells me the dude gave you the scripted answer he probably gets from fielding the Monblahs of the world:  "I NEVER smell ketchup!  What are these people smoking?"  ...or the Nonblahs:    "What's WITH THE KETCHUP Mike?"    

Short, quick, gets 'em to go away.  

Cool
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scotties22

scotties22

Age : 37
Location : Missouri
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 4:39 pm

Kyle, if you ever get the chance to talk to Mike in person you'll know he tells ya the truth or nothing at all. And it's usually followed by the phrase "because I just don't give a shit." That's Mike. No pap, no "company line"....he will either tell you or not. Another club member, Steve Stein, was in on the conversation last night and gave Mike a good "ketchup" comment a few times.

Let me rephrase the vacuum comment. Mike says he leaves more air (he said a percentage, although he didn't give me the exact number) in his tins than others do.

Mike likes to talk too much to have trade secrets anyway Laughing



Carlos, McCranie's is just tinned up 5100. Maybe "version" was the wrong choice of words. McCranie's is from select years. The way I understand it Mike tins "years worth" at a time from a tin count standpoint. Then ships it as needed. The reason they are on the 2008 crop still is that they haven't sold all the tins that Mike made for them. Until they do he will just make 5100 out of whatever the crop yeilds.

He actually told me last night he has about 8 years worth (from a sales side of thing) of a blend (I don't remember which one) he thought would sell well and it hasn't taken off like he hoped. Needless to say he won't be making any more of it for a while.
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Kyle Weiss

Kyle Weiss

Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 4:50 pm

scotties22 wrote:
Kyle, if you ever get the chance to talk to Mike in person you'll know he tells ya the truth or nothing at all.  And it's usually followed by the phrase "because I just don't give a shit."  That's Mike.  No pap, no "company line"....he will either tell you or not.  Another club member, Steve Stein, was in on the conversation last night and gave Mike a good "ketchup" comment a few times.

Let me rephrase the vacuum comment.  Mike says he leaves more air (he said a percentage, although he didn't give me the exact number) in his tins than others do.

Mike likes to talk too much to have trade secrets anyway  Laughing

I'll probably never get a chance to talk to him, as I'm pretty far from any events that might occur...

...at the same time, I've also heard he's very no-bullpucky. I think you have to be like that to be a tobacco blender. Hence why I also would guess he has more a script for his own sanity dealing with the umpteenth repeated question over details--not so much a company line.

In any case, if I ever do meet him by chance, I'll be sure to wear my red shirt that has a huge Heinz ketchup label on it, but never mention a thing. Laughing

Cool

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SpeedyPete



Age : 74
Location : Cape Town
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Jan 17, 2015 3:45 am

McCranies also sell 5100 under their own label in bulk. They call it First Light.
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RDPipes

RDPipes

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Jan 17, 2015 8:11 am

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scotties22

scotties22

Age : 37
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Jan 17, 2015 10:19 am

lol!
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stapf

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Location : Cedar Hill TX (DFW)
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyTue Jan 20, 2015 1:57 pm

I'm not into ketchup. I'm waiting for someone to come out with mustard or hot sauce.
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Northern Neil

Northern Neil

Age : 35
Location : Calgary AB. Canada
Registration date : 2012-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 10:59 am

It was noted on another forum, discussing the same topic, that McCrannies Red Ribbon and Red Flake are actually single crop productions where McClelland 5100 is a blend of multiple redVA vintages to maintain consistency. So the Red Ribbon and Red Flake are similar to Christmas Cheer and 5100 is a more generic production.
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scotties22

scotties22

Age : 37
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-06-10

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 12:20 pm

5100 and Ribbon/Flake are the same thing. The difference is that Ribbon/Flake are tinned from a specific crop year because that's when they (McCrannie's) need more and it's what Mike has on hand at the time. So in that regard I guess Ribbon/Flake is a bit like the Christmas Cheer. I'll have to ask Mike about blending the 5100...whether it is single year batches or if he blends multiple vintages. I can't see Mike hanging on to a vintage just to blend it as a straight Va bulk....but, I could be wrong. I'll see him in a few weeks and ask.
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Thomas Tkach

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Age : 32
Location : North Dakota
Registration date : 2010-11-24

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Mar 13, 2015 7:08 pm

scotties22 wrote:
5100 and Ribbon/Flake are the same thing.  The difference is that Ribbon/Flake are tinned from a specific crop year because that's when they (McCrannie's) need more and it's what Mike has on hand at the time. So in that regard I guess Ribbon/Flake is a bit like the Christmas Cheer.  I'll have to ask Mike about blending the 5100...whether it is single year batches or if he blends multiple vintages.  I can't see Mike hanging on to a vintage just to blend it as a straight Va bulk....but, I could be wrong.  I'll see him in a few weeks and ask.  

Did you ever ask?
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scotties22

scotties22

Age : 37
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Mar 13, 2015 7:17 pm

I didn't....I forgot Embarassed The next meeting in on Thursday the 19th. If he's there I'll try to remember to ask.
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Thomas Tkach

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Age : 32
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Mar 13, 2015 7:36 pm

Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.
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Kapnismologist

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Mar 13, 2015 9:07 pm

Thomas Tkach wrote:
Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.

Dilettantes!

(btw - a great thread)
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monbla256

monbla256

Age : 73
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Mar 13, 2015 9:27 pm

Thomas Tkach wrote:
Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.

They don't. Red Flake is a flake and 5100 RC is a ribbon cut. Now McCranie's Red Ribbon and McC's 5100 RC are basicaly one and the same Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptyFri Mar 13, 2015 11:32 pm

I have also read that Peretti's London Flake is McClelland bulk 2015. That would be a good one to know for sure, because I love London Flake but the price difference between LF and 2015, for 8 ounces, is about $9.00 bucks.
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Thomas Tkach

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Mar 14, 2015 6:58 am

monbla256 wrote:
Thomas Tkach wrote:
Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.

They don't. Red Flake is a flake and 5100 RC is a ribbon cut. Now McCranie's Red Ribbon and McC's 5100 RC are basicaly one and the same Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

They have a lot in common: both are done by McClelland, both are VAs, both are Red VAs, and if you read this thread, both are the SAME red VA leaf. The only differences are tinned vs. bulk, flake vs. ribbon, and single vintage vs. blended vintage (maybe).
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leacha

leacha

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Mar 14, 2015 8:06 am

Excerpt from Red Cake is not Red Ribbon - A Message from the Horses Mouth

Quote :
My email to them

Good morning,I have a couple of question about the wonderful Red Ribbon 2008. To start, I just want you to know that I sing it's praises. But, after a conversation on the pipesmagazine forums, I wanted to clarify a few rumors. Are all of the 2008 Red Ribbon tinned at the same time, or different times? Meaning, should I be marking dates on the tin when they arrive to tell the difference in age?And, is this Virginia the same as McClelland's 5100 Red Cake. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Again kudos on this wonderful blend.

Their reply

Michael,Good questions. Glad you enjoy Red Ribbon. Depending on the size of the crop and other factors, there may be more than one tinning. However, the date of that tinning is on the bottom of the can already.Your next question gets to the heart of what makes Red Ribbon unique. Tobacco is influenced by the location, soil, climate, and conditions. Each year produces different characteristics in tobacco. Therefore, McClelland 5100 is a constant blend of several years to keep it consistent year-in year-out. It is a straight Virginia but one that is a mixture of crops over time. Red Ribbon is from a single crop. The result is a deep natural Virginia sweetness that no blend of crops can achieve. Similar to single-malt versus blended Scotch.

Let us know if this raises any other questions.

Thanks
Todd
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gravel

gravel

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Mar 14, 2015 9:36 am

Two horses. Two mouths. Two answers.
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Thomas Tkach

Thomas Tkach

Age : 32
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Registration date : 2010-11-24

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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Mar 14, 2015 9:50 am

leacha wrote:
Excerpt from Red Cake is not Red Ribbon - A Message from the Horses Mouth

Quote :
My email to them

Good morning,I have a couple of question about the wonderful Red Ribbon 2008. To start, I just want you to know that I sing it's praises. But, after a conversation on the pipesmagazine forums, I wanted to clarify a few rumors. Are all of the 2008 Red Ribbon tinned at the same time, or different times? Meaning, should I be marking dates on the tin when they arrive to tell the difference in age?And, is this Virginia the same as McClelland's 5100 Red Cake. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Again kudos on this wonderful blend.

Their reply

Michael,Good questions. Glad you enjoy Red Ribbon. Depending on the size of the crop and other factors, there may be more than one tinning. However, the date of that tinning is on the bottom of the can already.Your next question gets to the heart of what makes Red Ribbon unique. Tobacco is influenced by the location, soil, climate, and conditions. Each year produces different characteristics in tobacco. Therefore, McClelland 5100 is a constant blend of several years to keep it consistent year-in year-out. It is a straight Virginia but one that is a mixture of crops over time. Red Ribbon is from a single crop. The result is a deep natural Virginia sweetness that no blend of crops can achieve. Similar to single-malt versus blended Scotch.

Let us know if this raises any other questions.

Thanks
Todd

Thanks for the confirmation on that!

The comparison to single-malt scotch is not right. Single Malt refers to the malt being processed and distilled from a single distillery, but is often blended with different batches over the years to maintain a consistent flavor--just like 5100. Single Cask is like the McCranies--it's either form one actual barrel or multiple barrels of the same batch aged together. Blended Scotch is a blend of malts from different distilleries to get a bit of different flavors.

Cf. wikipedia:
Quote :
The age statement on a bottle of single malt whisky is the age of the youngest malt in the mix, as commonly the whiskies of several years are mixed in a vat to create a more consistent house style. On occasion, the product of a single cask of whisky is bottled without being vatted with other casks, and released as a "Single Cask" offering. However, it is not always clear what the term "single cask" refers to. At least some producers release vattings of multiple barrels that have been matured together for one final period in a larger single cask as "single cask" whisky.[5]

The upshot is that they are both using the same leaf, but from different years (single or blended). There's obviously a difference (one year's crop may be exceptionally good or bad or just different) but they should be pretty close. One year of RR may be on the sweeter end of the spectrum of the RC blend, another year might be on the less sweet end, and some years may be right in the middle and hard to discern any difference between RR and RC.
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Thomas Tkach

Thomas Tkach

Age : 32
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PostSubject: Re: "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends   "The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends EmptySat Mar 14, 2015 9:55 am

gravel wrote:
Two horses. Two mouths. Two answers.

But they're not two answers, are they? Scottie noted they're the same leaf. The link notes they're different vintages. These seem to be two sides of the same coin. Scottie's focusing on the similarity of leaf source, link is focusing on the difference of crop year. I don't think there's a contradiction.
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