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 Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?

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DireWolf

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Age : 45
Location : NW Oregon
Registration date : 2015-01-13

PostSubject: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:58 pm

I have no idea what this is about, but thought I'd throw it out there.

I have no clue if this is blend related, pipe related, or me related.

I have had a few blends recently that give me a strange reaction - one has been in several pipes, and another in one.

Squadron Leader in bulk (But it's tasty!) and last night PS's LTF.

Both have yielded what I would describe at tongue bite. I get a peppery pickle/heat sensation on the side the bit is on, and generally across my tongue. Mellows with drink, but even a mellow sip will bring it and keep it.

It's not tongue burn, AFAICT, there is no lasting sensation, and I can smoke #5100, or other Va with no effect. Mild aros like shortcut to mushrooms, some of the 4th Gen (1957 and 1897(?)), and a few others are also fine.

I have several Va's open, a couple of aros, and for English it's only FMC and SL right now. McC's Drama Reserve is also not a problem.

As a rule, I am using taller narrow bowls for Va's and broader/shallower ones for English.

I have several tasters that just came in from Peretti that are all English, but I am trying to figure out what's going on. Thought maybe it was something in the SL - Perique or something - but there is none in there.

Is this a pipe thing? I have about 10 or so, but an trying to keep a couple for each type of tobacco, so that's a little limiting.

I wonder if it's something I am sensitive to, or what. It's strange that it's (so far) only these two blends.
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DrumsAndBeer

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Age : 46
Location : Northern, CA
Registration date : 2012-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:53 pm

My knee jerk reaction, especially with SL, would be to say "Welcome to the world of quality Oriental tobacco." I doubt it's bite, altough with LTF it could be. I think what you are experiencing with SL is good old fashioned spiciness, which is one of the first attributes I look for in a latakia/Oriental mixture. It's a welcome and sought after complexity. Peretti's Tashkent has it in spades, and it's glorious! Squadron Leader can be a bit spicy, which is most likely the work of the Turkish leaf that S. Gawith blends with. Most latakia has a tiny spice kick to it which can have a compounding effect with other Oriental leaf as well a certain VA's.

Now really spicy tobacco might feel like tongue bite at first, but unlike actual "bite," usually when you're through smoking a bowl, you're left for the most part, completely unscathed. Here's how I have learned to differentiate between spice and bite. Ever had a charlie horse? Tongue bite is like a charlie horse. Russ Ouellette even mentioned this somewhere, referring to tongue-bite feeling like a cramp. I agree. Spiciness on the other hand is akin to the feeling you get when you eat something that has a little heat on it. That said, is there any difference in the feeling you get from SL (VA/Turk/LAt) and that of LTF (Aromatic VA/Cav)?

Oriental Mixtures, like Tashkent and SL which is loaded with Turkish, should be smoked slowly with the same amount of care as a Straight VA, Vaper or Vabur as tobaccos from the Orient also have a good amount of natural sugars in them. Puffing away like a freight train on them can lead to a worn out tongue.


Last edited by DrumsAndBeer on Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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monbla256

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Age : 72
Location : DFW Metroplex, Texas
Registration date : 2012-01-15

PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:57 pm

DireWolf wrote:
I have no idea what this is about, but thought I'd throw it out there.

I have no clue if this is blend related, pipe related, or me related.

I have had a few blends recently that give me a strange reaction - one has been in several pipes, and another in one.

Squadron Leader in bulk (But it's tasty!) and last night PS's LTF.

Both have yielded what I would describe at tongue bite.  I get a peppery pickle/heat sensation on the side the bit is on, and generally across my tongue.  Mellows with drink, but even a mellow sip will bring it and keep it.

It's not tongue burn, AFAICT, there is no lasting sensation, and I can smoke #5100, or other Va with no effect.  Mild aros like shortcut to mushrooms, some of the 4th Gen (1957 and 1897(?)), and a few others are also fine.

I have several Va's open, a couple of aros, and for English it's only FMC and SL right now.  McC's Drama Reserve is also not a problem.

As a rule, I am using taller narrow bowls for Va's and broader/shallower ones for English.

I have several tasters that just came in from Peretti that are all English, but I am trying to figure out what's going on.  Thought maybe it was something in the SL - Perique or something - but there is none in there.

Is this a pipe thing?  I have about 10 or so, but an trying to keep a couple for each type of tobacco, so that's a little limiting.

I wonder if it's something I am sensitive to, or what.  It's strange that it's (so far) only these two blends.

From what you've described I would say it's probably a blend thing rather than something to do with the pipes you smoke. It's probably not tongue bite either but rather may be due to the variety of Va's used by the blender of the blends you're smoking. Many of the British blenders especially ones from the Lakes/Kendall district use African Va's which give me the same sensation you describe. Not all Va's are equal and those used by most of the US blenders. McC's, C&D, GLP etc are definately US Va's and thier is a difference in many of thier aspects smoking wise from the African varieties.
Your choice of style of bowl for your Va/English smoking is the exact opposite from what i have done over the last 40 years. I smoke almost ALL of my straight Va's whether Flake or ribbon in wide bowled pipes  particularly Pots and my English/Balkans in taller narrower bowls such as Billiards. The wider bowls let ALL of the nuances of the Va's come out for me and the taller narrower bowls concentrate the Orientals/ Latakia in the English/balkans. Twisted Evil
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DireWolf

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Age : 45
Location : NW Oregon
Registration date : 2015-01-13

PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:42 pm

DrumsAndBeer wrote:
That said, is there any difference in the feeling you get from SL (VA/Turk/LAt) and that of LTF (Aromatic VA/Cav)?

As best as I can tell (SL yesterday morning/midday, LTF at night) - the same sensation.  And the Drama Reserve had none of it.

Feels a bit like s light dusting of fine black pepper - prickly heat that's bearable, but characterless.

Packed a big ole bowl of FMC just now in the pipe I used yesterday (a Big Ben Ranger, whose size was making me wonder) and nothing but yumminess.

monbla256 wrote:
Many of the British blenders especially ones from the Lakes/Kendall district use African Va's which give me the same sensation you describe. Not all Va's are equal and those used by most of the US blenders. McC's, C&D, GLP etc are definately US Va's and thier is a difference in many of thier aspects smoking wise from the African varieties.

Huh - I'm wondering if that me be it/part of it.

I have had a few McC Vas, and nothing but goodness - especially with coffee, my god that's good.

A bulk order I made that the LTF came in also had some SG Va flakes (Best Brown, Med. Va, Chocolate) in there, along with some other McC's (#2015 and #2020).  I've tried some Best Brown and don't recall it being as pronounced, writing off a little tongue prick to over zealous puffing.

I may need to hole up with a bunch of them this weekend and see what's up.  Maybe scrub out some pipes with booze first and swap shapes around too.
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Fumus

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:04 pm

DW, thanks for posting this. I've noticed (and been wondering about), the same thing. I was thinking it was just my inexperienced tongue (non-tobacco user before this), reacting to stronger tobacco's. However when I checked TobaccoReviews.com, neither CC 2012 nor Escudo were considered any stronger than some of the aromatics Ive been enjoying with out the "peppery" sensation. I will say that I didn't notice this sensation with the CC until the pipe was abut to go out and I foolishly started "puffing like a steam engine" in an effort to get it going again. Once I slowed cadence back down at let things cool off a bit, peppery sensation was gone. As for the Escudo, didn't really notice "spiciness?" until 2nd half of bowl, and even then it wasn't that pronounced. Both blends were smoked in a smaller MM.
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RDPipes

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Age : 64
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:23 pm

Fumus wrote:
DW, thanks for posting this. I've noticed (and been wondering about), the same thing.  I was thinking it was just my inexperienced tongue (non-tobacco user before this), reacting to stronger tobacco's. However when I checked  TobaccoReviews.com, neither CC 2012 nor Escudo were considered any stronger than some of the aromatics Ive been enjoying with out the "peppery" sensation.  I will say that I didn't notice this sensation with the CC until the pipe was abut to go out and I foolishly started "puffing like a steam engine" in an effort to get it going again. Once I slowed cadence back down at let things cool off a bit, peppery sensation was gone. As for the Escudo, didn't really notice "spiciness?" until 2nd half of bowl, and even then it wasn't that pronounced.  Both blends were smoked in a smaller MM.  

Escudo has never nipped at me and I don't find much of a peppery note to it either, just smooth and creamy most the time. I find a little light tamping when the pipe feels as though it's going out brings it right back without puffing but, just a slow even draw as if you were sipping a ice tea through a straw. Can't say much for the other sensations some are getting cause I reckon I've never experienced them. If a tobacco is nipping at me I slow down. I have found some tobaccos demand a slow sip as to my regular cadence of long draws but, that's just the nature of the beast I reckon. The only time I experience any sensations out of the usual is when the tobacco is either a bit too wet, too dry, or I'm getting to quick with my draws. Wink
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DireWolf

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Age : 45
Location : NW Oregon
Registration date : 2015-01-13

PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:44 am

Not bad, but getting a bit of it tonight.

McC's #2020 Matured Cake in a big old churchwarden.

According to tobacco reviews it's VA (U.S. assumed), Oriental/Turkish (Xanthi), and Latakia.

Not as strong a sensation, but it's there.

Question
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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:19 pm

DrumsAndBeer wrote:
Ever had a charlie horse? Tongue bite is like a charlie horse. Russ Ouellette even mentioned this somewhere, referring to tongue-bite feeling like a cramp.

A concentrated pin prick cramp that raises eyebrows?

Yup.

Had my first with the Peretti Devonshire.

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Jevverrett

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:06 am

What I used to think of as tongue bite when I started out was when I burned my tongue. Like, it would hurt for a day after the fact and hot liquids were unbearable after smoking. This subsided with time, as my tongue toughened up some. Sort of like when you first start drinking whisky. All you can taste is the fire until you get accustomed to it, then you get the flavor and the nuance of it.
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alandadp

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:45 pm

I have only one word to add to this discussion - Latakia Twisted Evil 
Don't get me wrong, I quite like the smoky taste but for some reason it rips the living c**p out of my tongue Twisted Evil 
It's not instant, while smoking it I get that tingling tongue sensation which builds slowly through the bowl, but the next morning it feels like someone's attacked my tongue with a chainsaw Twisted Evil
Some perique blends give me a similar tingling tongue sensation but less distinct and it subsides quickly after smoking.
Guess it's down to one thing - chemistry.
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RDPipes

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:18 pm

alandadp wrote:
I have only one word to add to this discussion - Latakia Twisted Evil 
Don't get me wrong, I quite like the smoky taste but for some reason it rips the living c**p out of my tongue Twisted Evil 
It's not instant, while smoking it I get that tingling tongue sensation which builds slowly through the bowl, but the next morning it feels like someone's attacked my tongue with a chainsaw Twisted Evil
Some perique blends give me a similar tingling tongue sensation but less distinct and it subsides quickly after smoking.
Guess it's down to one thing - chemistry.

Lats seem to be the easiest on my tongue, while some Va's and Burley's can tingle a bit if not sipped slowly. Burley has always been my biggest offender of the bite but, with Lakelands I get that slow churn that develops into to a full blow retching.
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alandadp

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:38 pm

Cartaphilus wrote:
.... with Lakelands I get that slow churn that develops into to a full blow retching.  

Always handy if you need a good emitic then
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RDPipes

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:30 pm

alandadp wrote:
Cartaphilus wrote:
.... with Lakelands I get that slow churn that develops into to a full blow retching.  

Always handy if you need a good emitic then

God gave me two already, there called index fingers
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KevinM



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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:46 pm

I don't know what the heck it might be. Some decades back, I used to be bothered by being bitten, but the problem went away as I became a slower smoker and more proficient packer. As a method to ID your problem, you might spend some time over at Tobacco Reviews, visiting the blends you've identified and seeing if other have discussed experiences similar to yours. While you're at it, you could find other pipers who share your taste and are laying a trail for you to explore. Good luck.
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Scot's

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:00 pm

This thread has been idle for a while, but I haven't been here for a while so I thought I'd jump in with my thought(s).

For the 25 years I've been smoking a pipe, Mac Baren's Plumcake has been a solid player in my rotation. About five years ago, Matured Virginia earned a place right next to it. Four years ago life came along and there came a new job and a thousand mile relocation and pipe stuff needed to be put away and stored.

During this time I quit smoking cigarettes and would just have an occasional cigar or a pipe with the readily available Carter Hall in a cob. Fast forward to when things settled and all the boxes unpacked and I got to sit back in my easy chair with my 35 year old Pete and some Matured Virginia, (now 4 years old). the smoke was like a toxic cloud in my mouth, it assaulted every membrane and taste bud I had.

My first thought was the tobacco was stored improperly... I had an unopened tin that I popped but I experienced the same result. I then tried Plumcake, not as bad but still unpleasant... what the hell happened? I have 6 pounds of Mac Baren tobacco ready to be savored and the first couple of puffs on any of them ruins the night.

The thought "Oh yeah, my tongue has lost it' callouses" went through my head, "It'll get better"... 6 months later it seems worse. I wasn't being bitten, it was a chemical reaction. I went through my entire rotation of pipes and the driest smoking ones like the cobs or briars that use a 9mm filter work okay and the Peterson's were the worst...? So the culprit is something in the steam, (which is where all the flavor is), or (tongue in cheek), pipes that use dark stains.  Question

Somewhere along the line whether it was the fact I gave up cigarettes or that I am just getting older, my body chemistry is different and I am now sensitive to either a leaf, the casings or toppings they use in their blends, I don't know. It only happens with the Mac blends as all the Dunhill's, C&D's and SPC's are fine.

It comes down to the fact that it just is and I need to deal with it. I'll sell what I can and do my best to enjoy what's left. Cobs are cheap and I can add another 9mm briar to the collection. It's a shame though, gonna miss that Plumcake. Fortunately the Vintage Syrian still works, but oddly enough not anything with a Peterson stamp on it, "P" lip and all, odd...
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Timbo

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:25 am

I get this peppery sensation too but only from some oriental blends. Durbar and Nightcap both will set my tongue off if smoked too hot/quickly but Westminster and Arango Balkan Supreme don't.

The extra air movement generated when I walk also seems to get the baccy too hot to smoke well unless I'm extra careful with my cadence.

Good luck guys

Tim
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Ozark Wizard

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:06 pm

I had a similar experience the first time I got some Yenidji. Pulled out a few leaves, chopped them up, stuffed a pipe and lit up. Wanted to see what it was like alone before introducing it into blends.

Blistered my lips near the stem, burnt my tongue like a bee sting... Of course, I puffed away at it pretty fiercely, so I figured I had it coming.............

I have noticed it though with heavy Oriental influenced blends though. I now treat Oriental blends with more care than VAs......
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AJ

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:58 am

I've found that the more nicotine in the tobacco the more of a peppery sensation. The sensation covers all parts of my mouth. The peppery sensation I feel when the tobacco has Orientals and/or Perique the sensation is mainly on my tongue. Smile

AJ
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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tongue sensations. "Peppery?" "Tongue Bite"? WTF?   Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:13 am

Several months later, I think I have a sensitive tongue. Not to bite, but to this prickly pepper thing. Seems to come from orientals, being careless and puffing too fast, some VaPers, sometimes too much moisture. I used to chew and have mild lichen planus, and that also likely contributes.
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