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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 1:18 am

Tried Chocolate Flake, Medium Virginia Flake, and Best Brown.

No FVF, yet, but some of that's on the water soon enough.

AFAICT, some of them age well enough, that they are scooped up by the bucket load.

So far, admittedly after only a few bowls each, the conclusion is "Meh."

What am I missing?
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gravel

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 1:56 am

Straight VAs can be subtle. Once it clicks for you they are very flavorful.
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 10:17 am

It took me a while to get straight Virginia tobacco, too. When I first tried it, I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. I felt it to be, at best, lifeless, and at worst, a serious case of tongue bite. My introduction to Ginnyweed was MacBaren Va. #1 (which wasn't the ideal starting point I later discoverd, lol). I tried a few different blends and still had the same impression. Meh.

Eventually, however, I had one of those "magic smokes" when all the sweetness came through. It happened rather by accident. I later discovered that smoking it at very low temperature was what had brought out the flavor and nuance. Then I was able to repeat the experience regularly.

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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:19 am

My very first VA was Dunhill Flake. I smoked through most of the tin wondering why anyone would want to smoke fancified cigarette tobacco in a pipe. The first VA's that I really fell in love with were those of McClelland. And later on S. Gawith and many others.

Others have mentioned that VA's take time. I agree. In fact, for 3 years or so, whenever I opened a new VA, I would smoke the entire tin straight through & I would never use a pipe that had seen the likeness of a Latakia blend, Oriental or aromatic. At the time I wanted to experience each tobacco in different pipes, moods, temps, etc. I was running this experiment when I was looking for candidates to stock up my cellar with. It definetly helped me to understand what I preferred and to weed out some blends that I just didn't care for.

You could take a back door approach to straight VA's by finding a blend that has a small percentage of Perique in it. At lower percentages, perique is more of a flavor amplifier than a overt provider of flavor. Orlik Golden Sliced or Solani 633 would good candidates. If you desire a purist approach, find a rich VA blend that has a good portion of black stoved VA mixed with red, goldens, etc. This way you get a range of flavor in each smoke. Cut plays a big role in what you may experience as well. This is why so many VA smokers favor flakes.

Also with a lot of VA's I find that decanting the tobacco helps quite a bit to bring out more flavor. S. Gawith flake tobaccos typically require more dry time and more experimentation in prep than most flakes. I have dried whole FVF flakes overnight with excellent results. Cube them up the next day, smoke a bit and throw the rest into a small jar for later. I know an older gentleman who loves SG flakes but hates the prep, so he uses a "Santa Cruz Shredder" on his flakes for an easy breaking up of flakes. Very Happy

Anyway, just some random thoughts....
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:54 am

Slow down. Side stream. Try a Prince. Maybe they're not your thing.

Just a few ideas.

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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:56 am

Appreciated.

I do have a few that I like - Dunhill Flake is lovely, a few of the McC's are wonderful.

I keep some red cake in the truck with a smaller cob - bowl into the carpool meet spot, and one on the way home.

Yummy.

Some of the McC's have additives, I suspect (Steven Brooks swears the ketchup smell is added apple cider vinegar), but they smell and taste great to me. The Stave Aged 35 (again with a waft of bourbon) is my favorite morning weekender - in a huge deep bowl, and a couple cups of strong French press coffee - I find myself making quiet "nom nom nom" noises to myself.

The three SG's though have all tasted the same, and a bit muddy. The medium Va Flake I had was OK, but nothing spectacular.

I am wondering if age helps (the FVF is cellared to a ridiculous amount - must be a reason, I assume they get mellower and sweeter with age), if the Va variety makes a difference (US vs. African for example), and the age of the leaf (lemon vs. orange vs. mature) likely also makes a difference. I had my finger hovering over some Wessex Red Slice to see how it differed from the red cake - as I am sure it is.

The three SG's I have all are brown, and I assume them to be more "mature" leaves of Va. G&H Kendal Gold - bright and yellow - is that something that might work better, considering? Maybe the lighter Va's are just suiting be better "right now"?

What exactly is the difference in the leaf between the FVF and the Best Brown or Med. Va's for SG?

And D&B - if you have a suggestion on a black stoved/red/gold blend I'm all ears. I have come Orlik GS in the cabinet that needs cracking.

My plan is (I have a ton of blends) is to drop the ones I care for less into the storage drawer and see what happens in 6 months.
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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:58 am

Blackhorse wrote:
Slow down. Side stream. Try a Prince. Maybe they're not your thing.

Just a few ideas.

Inside, I am a pretty slow sipper, trying to keep the wife from objecting from too much smoke.

I have been eyeballing princes and pots though. I have a 320KS for English, and have been thinking about another for Va's.
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ftrplt

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 1:27 pm

Ginnyweed does take some getting used to. I gave up on it 40+ years ago; didn't like it and didn't see the point of it all!! About fifteen years ago, I ventured back with Dunhill Flake and several of the Georgetown Tobacco flakes. I especially enjoyed these in my clay pipes. Once falling in with this "Den of Thieves!!" years ago, I ventured into FVF, OGS, the various McClelland's, Rattray's, Solani's, and now Capstan's (I'm sure I've forgotten some, but you get the drift!!). Great change of pace from my Latweeds! Do gotta' smoke'em slow; that's part of their enjoyment. Don't give up on'em cheers FTRPLT
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Thomas Tkach

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 2:25 pm

Maybe the SG leaf is too wet. They are my favorite straight VAs, particularly BBF. It's got a little more of the brighter VA flavors than FVF. They definitely aren't flavor bombs like a 50% latakia blend, but they're subtle and nuanced. After smoking then for a while I began to be able to discern a difference between those subtle nuances and the relative lack thereof in blends like VA no. 1, PS LTF, and Newminster SNF. Those are bad blends, but the Gawith blends are a little more complex. It took me years to notice, so maybe as your palate develops you'll be able to tell.

P.S. I also like McClelland VAs.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 4:56 pm

GLP Union Square and SG BBF are what delivered me from continued practice of the old saw "...newbies should smoke aromatics."  The relief was immense and immediate.   I was made to smoke VAs, apparently.  

While Union Square still is a go-to and BBF is more of a rare re-visit, without Ginnyweed, I'd probably have given up the pipe.   It took me no time to like VA, but it took me a while to figure out why I liked it.  I still haven't decrypted many of its secrets; thank goodness for the tasty journey rather than the ultimate destination.

Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 5:31 pm

I'm sure you'll figure it out.

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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 6:04 pm

One thing you'll find in asking about SG VA's is that the opinions out there are many, varied and quite personal.

Ah...the voyage.

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 8:27 pm

DireWolf wrote:
What exactly is the difference in the leaf between the FVF and the Best Brown or Med. Va's for SG?

I'm given to understand that they are all the same blend and processed in the same way, except that FVF spend the most time in the press, BBF less, and MVF least of all. The extra time under heat and pressure seems like what produces the deeper character of FVF.

I've always found that for me, they have to be dried down thoroughly to burn well and taste good. Virtually until the point of brittleness in fact.

I'm predominantly a VA smoker and enjoy flakes, so my prep is always to rub them well out first before drying.

My preference is BBF, FVF, and MVF in that order. In fact FVF can be very fussy to get right even after drying. Don't know why that it, just that it is for me.

Another thing I'm come to know is that they all greatly benefit from ageing. When fresh, they seem to be somewhat one-dimensional and a bit bland. After 3-5 years they start to come into their own and 5+ years develop into something very nice indeed. Much more complex. And while this is true for any VA it seems especially the case here.

HTH


Cheers,

RR

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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 8:54 pm

I've smoked Va's for close to 30+ years and tried many of the offerings from the folks in the Lakelands over this time and for my taste, none of them really did "it" for me as compared to the offerings from the boys in KC. I think it mainly is the overall difference btwn the varieties of Va leaf and how they are prepared that are definately very different for BOTH  blenders. McC's using predominately domestic ( Carolina produced mostly) Red/Orange flue cured Va leaf as opposed to the African and European varieties of Yellow and Brightleaf Va's in the Lakelands blends. Remember, even if many of these blends might not have the "old lady soap" topping in them, they are STILL Lakelands blends as THAT"S where they are made, in the Lakelands district of England !!
As far as the other two domestic blenders of Va blends, C&D and GLP ( whose blends are MADE for him by C&D) they both seem to favor more of the brighter Va's in there blends and these are just not in my wheelhouse !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 8:58 pm

See? Many, varied and quite personal. I should have added..detailed...very, very detailed.

study

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 9:00 pm

monbla256 wrote:
I've smoked Va's for close to 30+ years and tried many of the offerings from the folks in the Lakelands over this time and for my taste, none of them really did "it" for me as compared to the offerings from the boys in KC. I think it mainly is the overall difference btwn the varieties of Va leaf and how they are prepared that are definately very different for BOTH  blenders. McC's using predominately Red/Orange flue cured Va leaf as opposed to the African and European varieties of Yellow and Brightleaf Va's in the Lakelands blends. Remember, even if many of these blends might not have the "old lady soap" topping in them, they are STILL Lakelands blends as THAT"S where they are made, in the Lakelands district of England !!
As far as the other two domestic blenders of Va blends, C&D and GLP ( whose blends are MADE for him by C&D) they both seem to favor more of the brighter Va's in there blends and these are just not in my wheelhouse !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Can't make sense of your bolded statement Michael. Almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Please clarify.

Question


Cheers,

RR

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 9:29 pm

He's just saying...if it's made in the Lakeland's, then it's a Lakeland. ie. stinky or not, as many err by not calling an unscented blend a Lakeland, even though it's produced in that district. My read, anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 9:42 pm

Blackhorse wrote:
He's just saying...if it's made in the Lakeland's, then it's a Lakeland. ie. stinky or not, as many err by not calling an unscented blend a Lakeland, even though it's produced in that district. My read, anyway.

Yes of course. But what was the point of the bolded statement? Seems to be an inference that they are all subject to the "Lakeland" character.


Cheers,

RR

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Blackhorse
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 9:54 pm

I think it's just an added point of lecture.

What baffles me is why so many guys misrepresent the original quote re old ladies, panties, soap, etc. My recollection is that it had to do with smelling like the cheap parfum that old ladies, esp. in nursing homes, often used to hide the smell of urine. The descriptive re soap is totally separate. The thing about panties...well, someone somewhere in the long line of nay sayers just dragged that along to be mean. Perhaps - orbiter dictum. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 10:10 pm

PS: I've always rather hoped that Gawith (either cousin) would put out a special stinky blend and name it 'Twisted Knickers'...an homage to all the interplay of comments re soap, old ladies and their panties. But they're just so stuffy.

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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 10:20 pm

I think he's not saying they all get some of the 'essence' (whatever that means), but that the term lakeland should be used geographically. In that case, they're all English blends as well. Although etymologically correct, I think that using the term lakeland to refer to the herbal/floral aromatics and English to refer to VA-Oriental-Latakia blends is more descriptive, and thus more useful, even if they're based on historical misinformation.

In the thread about R-blend and Epiphany (Revelation clones) someone asked what an American blend is. I suppose Monbla would have answered that it's any blend made in American; like 5100, FM2000, Sutliff's Molto Dolce, GLP's Abingdon, Carter Hall, or H&H Lakeland Brickle. But by using these terms in strict geographical sense only, the statement 'I like American blends' has virtually no meaning. I'd prefer to use the terms so that specifying 'I like English blends' tells you something about my taste for latakia, rather than telling you nothing at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:20 pm

Brewdude wrote:
Blackhorse wrote:
He's just saying...if it's made in the Lakeland's, then it's a Lakeland. ie. stinky or not, as many err by not calling an unscented blend a Lakeland, even though it's produced in that district. My read, anyway.

Yes of course. But what was the point of the bolded statement? Seems to be an inference that they are all subject to the "Lakeland" character.


Cheers,

RR

I don't know how it got put in BOLD type as that's NOT how I typed it nor how it appears on my 'puter screen. Gremlins at work I imagine !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:26 pm

Brewdude wrote:

HTH

Immensely. Thank you!
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PostSubject: SG VAs   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:31 pm

Three words: age, age, age.

There is really nothing quite like opening up a well aged jar or tin of SG flakes and seeing a thickly "sugar crystal" encrusted, sticky stack of empire leaf looking back at you. Good stuff indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Sam Gawith Virginias   Sam Gawith Virginias EmptyWed Feb 11, 2015 11:39 pm

Thomas Tkach wrote:
I think he's not saying they all get some of the 'essence' (whatever that means), but that the term lakeland should be used geographically. In that case, they're all English blends as well. Although etymologically correct, I think that using the term lakeland to refer to the herbal/floral aromatics and English to refer to VA-Oriental-Latakia blends is more descriptive, and thus more useful, even if they're based on historical misinformation.

In the thread about R-blend and Epiphany (Revelation clones) someone asked what an American blend is. I suppose Monbla would have answered that it's any blend made in American; like 5100, FM2000, Sutliff's Molto Dolce, GLP's Abingdon, Carter Hall, or H&H Lakeland Brickle. But by using these terms in strict geographical sense only, the statement 'I like American blends' has virtually no meaning. I'd prefer to use the terms so that specifying 'I like English blends' tells you something about my taste for latakia, rather than telling you nothing at all.

As far as things being labeled geographicaly, back in the dark ages, prior to our more enlightened 'puter age, many 'baccy's WERE catagorized in this manner. ENGLISH/BALKAN blends were what most blends made in England were, AMERICAN blends were what most OTC Aro's were refered to and Va's were mainly reffered to as that though sometimes by the cut ie Flake, Ribbon, Coin etc as it was mostly Va's found in these cuts. Things weren't as SPECIFIC nor were we in our pre-interweb ignorence Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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