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 Factory Seconds - how to identify

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MartinH

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Age : 47
Location : The South
Registration date : 2011-01-04

PostSubject: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:25 pm

Hey Everyone!

I was at a local (monthly) "antiques" show/fair, and found this interesting churchwarden. The guy trying to sell it said it was "oak"!! Ha! I said, well it says "Imported Brian" right there. Smile Well, he gives me this story about the man who had this thing "special ordered" and made to his specifications. I would have believed him a little more if it actually had a trademark or logo stamped on it, but my fear is that it was really a factory second? Does this sound correct? I mean the guy wanted $95 bucks for this thing and I don't even how actually manufactured it. It definitely looked like a machine made pipe (at least to the best of the best of my abilities of observation.)

Let me know what you think.

Martin
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Brewdude

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Age : 65
Location : Near the Emerald city
Registration date : 2011-05-04

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:29 pm

Hey Martin, good to see you posting again. It's been a while!

If you included a pic I can't see it.



Cheers,

RR
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Ocelot55

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Location : Columbus, OH
Registration date : 2012-03-28

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:02 am

Identifying factory seconds is part knowledge part intuition. Spend enough time around pipes and you'll pick up on these things. For example, Dunhill, Comoy's, and Sasieni made a ton of other branded pipes in their factories that didn't meet the qualifications for their "flagship" lines. There are usually some nomenclature similarities such as similar fonts or the "Made in" stamps. Sometimes you can recognize the shapes or they might even use the same shape numbers. Either way, these pipes probably have cosmetic flaws that prevented them from earning the recognizable brand name. Belway, Old England, and Coventry are all Sasieni seconds. Malaga, Parker, and Hardcastle (early ones at least) are all Dunhill sub brands. Everyman, Josts, and Town Hall are Comoy's. Many times these seconds are great pipes that fly under the radar. Stanwell had a ton of second lines back in the day as well. Do some research. That's half the fun, after all.
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:45 am

Ocelot55 wrote:
Identifying factory seconds is part knowledge part intuition. Spend enough time around pipes and you'll pick up on these things. For example, Dunhill, Comoy's, and Sasieni made a ton of other branded pipes in their factories that didn't meet the qualifications for their "flagship" lines. There are usually some nomenclature similarities such as similar fonts or the "Made in" stamps. Sometimes you can recognize the shapes or they might even use the same shape numbers. Either way, these pipes probably have cosmetic flaws that prevented them from earning the recognizable brand name. Belway, Old England, and Coventry are all Sasieni seconds. Malaga, Parker, and Hardcastle (early ones at least) are all Dunhill sub brands. Everyman, Josts, and Town Hall are Comoy's. Many times these seconds are great pipes that fly under the radar. Stanwell had a ton of second lines back in the day as well. Do some research. That's half the fun, after all.

Not to be confused with Malaga that was made here in the states. Wink Malaga Pipe Co.
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riff raff

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Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:52 am

Ocelot55 wrote:
Identifying factory seconds is part knowledge part intuition. Spend enough time around pipes and you'll pick up on these things. For example, Dunhill, Comoy's, and Sasieni made a ton of other branded pipes in their factories that didn't meet the qualifications for their "flagship" lines. There are usually some nomenclature similarities such as similar fonts or the "Made in" stamps. Sometimes you can recognize the shapes or they might even use the same shape numbers. Either way, these pipes probably have cosmetic flaws that prevented them from earning the recognizable brand name. Belway, Old England, and Coventry are all Sasieni seconds. Malaga, Parker, and Hardcastle (early ones at least) are all Dunhill sub brands. Everyman, Josts, and Town Hall are Comoy's. Many times these seconds are great pipes that fly under the radar. Stanwell had a ton of second lines back in the day as well. Do some research. That's half the fun, after all.

Well said. Pipepedia has a lot of 2nds line information. Shape numbers are definitely your friend. A 2nds line Churchwarden, from a known maker seems a little unlikely, give the info you shared. Quality 2nds lines always had SOME kind of trademark or country of Manufacture. That one sounds like a run of the mill basket/wall pipe. Pass. (particularly at that price). Don't forget to snap a cell phone picture when you encounter these items, that helps considerably.
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joshoowah

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Age : 31
Location : Nairobi, Kenya
Registration date : 2011-09-24

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:21 am

Since no one else has said it, antique places, at least in my experience, tend to overprice crappy pipes simply because they are pipes and think they are antique-ish. Not saying this place is doing it, but it sounds like the guy was trying to upsale you. Without pictures I cannot be totally sure, of course, but that is what it sounds like. Nevertheless, if he said it is made out of oak when it in fact says imported briar, then he obviously doesn't know too much about it.
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riff raff

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Location : Western Maryland
Registration date : 2011-05-24

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:42 am

You nailed it Jooshwah, most antique/flea market places just assume all pipes are old and valuable collectors items. But, I keep looking and hoping! Last year, a buddy stopped at a Richmond flea market, and picked up an unsmoked Dunhill with box/papers for.........$15. He brought it to the show and sold it for $600. Instant show PAD money!
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MartinH

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Age : 47
Location : The South
Registration date : 2011-01-04

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:52 am

Hey! Thanks for all the responses! Yeah, I do think the guy was trying to upsell me and in a massive way. The comment about "antique" places pricing these things super high has also been my experience. I just like to look and hope for the "once in a life time find!" Smile I have much better luck on Etsy than anywhere else. A couple of years ago I snagged a Jobey, rusticated poker. It's a gorgeous pipe for a little under $40. I felt that wasn't a bad deal. But, yeah, I noticed quite a few "antique" dealers basically peddling trash as gold! But, that's half the fun of it for me! Smile

Later everyone!
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MisterE
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Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2009-08-24

PostSubject: Re: Factory Seconds - how to identify   Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:24 am

Hey Martin, great to see ya! Hope you've been well.

Sounds very basket pipe-ish to me. For $95 you could do much better IMHO.

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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