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 A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS

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DoverPipes

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Age : 49
Location : HUDSON VALLEY NY
Registration date : 2009-05-24

PostSubject: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:15 am

A story about two completely different carvers.......
There seems to be a recent trend of new pipe carvers who get a shit load of hype on the forums, Facebook and Youtube nowadays. They blow up overnight and have "a following" of agog fanboys.

I contacted one of these fellas before they had "made it big" and got on his "list". I stayed in contact. I received numerous e-mails saying, "You are coming up VERY soon and I want you to be ready once I start the process". Great! I thought. Then months pass that turn into years and dozens of pipes fly out of his shop and into the hands of people who got in long after I made "The list". I got an e-mail stating something to the effect, "Sorry, been real busy. Waiting on getting that special stain color for your pipe. It's gonna be the most unique pipe I will have done".....Then two more years and several e-mails later, the same carver is now selling pipes in the $500-$600 range. When I first contacted him and was put on the top of "The List", his pipes were going for around $200-$250.
I gave up on owning a pipe from this particular carver after waiting nearly five years.

Fast forward to the early Spring of this year.
Another, "New up and coming pipe artist" started posting his pipes all over the place and I contacted him about getting one. I sent a PayPal payment for the total amount UP FRONT and I am told it will be a couple of weeks to get the pipe in hand. Well, just like the first guy mentioned above, this guy is apparently selling a shit load of pipes to people who have only just ordered them recently. How do I know this? I have friends who have ordered from him and they only waited a month max! Only difference is the price went up after the carver got "buzz worthy". I can only guess that he isn't in a hurry to fill my order because like before, I got in early and my money isn't as good as the new buyers who are now paying more. What really pisses me off is, the carver posts pipes for sale nearly everyday on the net and I still sit waiting, and waiting and waiting.
I'm about to send a message requesting a full refund. Hell, I should even ask for interest because I'm sure my money is long since spent on materials to make pipes for other people or whatever he wanted to buy for himself!

What is wrong with people these days? You make a commitment and you need to follow through.

Am I wrong or is this considered poor form? scratch
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Hermit

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Age : 64
Location : Ascension Parish
Registration date : 2008-04-22

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:31 am

Sounds like they're not so "completely different."   Evil or Very Mad
No, you're not wrong.
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Dutch

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Age : 52
Location : On the road.......
Registration date : 2010-11-06

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:42 am

Can't say I have had this type experience with a pipe carver, however I have had on more than one occasion, females engage in this type of behavior.
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:06 am

Next time buy from an established pipe house off of an established retailer.

No offense intended to the 'artisan' carvers (whatever that means) but you can't overnight be the greatest carver in the world worthy of fists full of $100 bills. No thanks, I'll buy a Dunhill/Castello/Etc if I have to pay those kind of prices.. At least then I have resale. When the 'artisan' is replaced by the next 'artisan' my $500 pipe becomes $47.38 plus shipping on eBay. No thanks.

That's not to say there isn't some really good guys/gals carving some real smokable pipes and doing business in a fair manner. We have quite a few on this board that does just that. But all that trying to catch a star business is for the rocket ships and space cadets. If you want to gamble go to the track and put $300 on the 4 horse in the 6th race... At least then you've got a shot at getting something out of it, even if it is mud on your shoes and a hangover.
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:34 am

DoverPipes wrote:
A story about two completely different carvers.......
There seems to be a recent trend of new pipe carvers who get a shit load of hype on the forums, Facebook and Youtube nowadays. They blow up overnight and have "a following" of agog fanboys.

I contacted one of these fellas before they had "made it big" and got on his "list". I stayed in contact. I received numerous e-mails saying, "You are coming up VERY soon and I want you to be ready once I start the process". Great! I thought. Then months pass that turn into years and dozens of pipes fly out of his shop and into the hands of people who got in long after I made "The list". I got an e-mail stating something to the effect, "Sorry, been real busy. Waiting on getting that special stain color for your pipe. It's gonna be the most unique pipe I will have done".....Then two more years and several e-mails later, the same carver is now selling pipes in the $500-$600 range. When I first contacted him and was put on the top of "The List", his pipes were going for around $200-$250.
I gave up on owning a pipe from this particular carver after waiting nearly five years.

Fast forward to the early Spring of this year.
Another, "New up and coming pipe artist" started posting his pipes all over the place and I contacted him about getting one. I sent a PayPal payment for the total amount UP FRONT and I am told it will be a couple of weeks to get the pipe in hand. Well, just like the first guy mentioned above, this guy is apparently selling a shit load of pipes to people who have only just ordered them recently. How do I know this? I have friends who have ordered from him and they only waited a month max! Only difference is the price went up after the carver got "buzz worthy". I can only guess that he isn't in a hurry to fill my order because like before, I got in early and my money isn't as good as the new buyers who are now paying more. What really pisses me off is, the carver posts pipes for sale nearly everyday on the net and I still sit waiting, and waiting and waiting.
I'm about to send a message requesting a full refund. Hell, I should even ask for interest because I'm sure my money is long since spent on materials to make pipes for other people or whatever he wanted to buy for himself!

What is wrong with people these days? You make a commitment and you need to follow through.

Am I wrong or is this considered poor form? scratch

This just proves there's no honor in this world anymore. Most people haven't a fricken clue and there word is as useless as they are and these so called Artisan pipe carvers included. I'd be knocking on his door demanding my money back, from both of them sir. Wink
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SPUD 15

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Age : 70
Location : Winter Springs Florida
Registration date : 2011-09-07

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:11 am

Cartaphilus wrote:
DoverPipes wrote:
A story about two completely different carvers.......
There seems to be a recent trend of new pipe carvers who get a shit load of hype on the forums, Facebook and Youtube nowadays. They blow up overnight and have "a following" of agog fanboys.

I contacted one of these fellas before they had "made it big" and got on his "list". I stayed in contact. I received numerous e-mails saying, "You are coming up VERY soon and I want you to be ready once I start the process". Great! I thought. Then months pass that turn into years and dozens of pipes fly out of his shop and into the hands of people who got in long after I made "The list". I got an e-mail stating something to the effect, "Sorry, been real busy. Waiting on getting that special stain color for your pipe. It's gonna be the most unique pipe I will have done".....Then two more years and several e-mails later, the same carver is now selling pipes in the $500-$600 range. When I first contacted him and was put on the top of "The List", his pipes were going for around $200-$250.
I gave up on owning a pipe from this particular carver after waiting nearly five years.

Fast forward to the early Spring of this year.
Another, "New up and coming pipe artist" started posting his pipes all over the place and I contacted him about getting one. I sent a PayPal payment for the total amount UP FRONT and I am told it will be a couple of weeks to get the pipe in hand. Well, just like the first guy mentioned above, this guy is apparently selling a shit load of pipes to people who have only just ordered them recently. How do I know this? I have friends who have ordered from him and they only waited a month max! Only difference is the price went up after the carver got "buzz worthy". I can only guess that he isn't in a hurry to fill my order because like before, I got in early and my money isn't as good as the new buyers who are now paying more. What really pisses me off is, the carver posts pipes for sale nearly everyday on the net and I still sit waiting, and waiting and waiting.
I'm about to send a message requesting a full refund. Hell, I should even ask for interest because I'm sure my money is long since spent on materials to make pipes for other people or whatever he wanted to buy for himself!

What is wrong with people these days? You make a commitment and you need to follow through.

Am I wrong or is this considered poor form? scratch

This just proves there's no honor in this world anymore. Most people haven't a fricken clue and there word is as useless as they are and these so called Artisan pipe carvers included. I'd be knocking on his door demanding my money back, from both of them sir. Wink


+1
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the rev

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Location : Oak View CA
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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:56 am

I am by no means an over night success. I haven't raised my prices much. My biggest problem is I have had three major injuries this year. I have not been in my shop more than a few days in months. I have some peoe waiting for pipes and I am really bothered by how long they have waited. I am actually not going to take commissions anymore once I fill mine as it bothers me so much. Nothing to do with honor on my part just plain bad luck

rev
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Rob_In_MO

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Age : 44
Location : Park Hills, MO
Registration date : 2011-01-19

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:12 am

Dutch wrote:
Can't say I have had this type experience with a pipe carver, however I have had on more than one occasion, females engage in this type of behavior.

lol!
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:04 am

That sucks, Sean! And, no, you're not wrong for being pissed about it. Even if a pipe ever shows up, the bad experience will probably leave a sour taste in it.

_________________
Many of the greatest pleasures in life are illegal, immoral, or smelly.

-Yak
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:18 am

It's things like this that has turned me away from people. There's just no excuse for it, they could have been up front with you and at least offered you a refund if they knew that the wait was going to be long.

Something just happened to me in the last few minutes that surprised the hell out of me. I had purchased an item on eBay and was the only bidder, it went for $9.99. No not a pipe but an item I needed just the same. The seller just contacted me and gave me a partial refunded for shipping charges. No, it wasn't the money but, the thought that some would refund me shipping charges because eBay had given them a discount on shipping. That put a little ray of light into my thoughts of people nowadays, there are some good left. It's just hard to find them under all the darkness. Wink
By the way I let them know how thankful I am and not to beat my own drum too much,I've done the same myself to my buyers on eBay and didn't even get a thank you. Rolling Eyes

Sorry Sean, if I rerouted your thread a bit but, I just wanted to let you and others know.
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AJ

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:25 pm

Check with PayPal. They may refund your money if you haven't received the goods paid for. Also I always check for references before I do business with anyone online. When buying artisan pipes I deal with people who are members of a pipe forum and that have a good reputation among the forum members. I've had commisions done by Dave Mathews (Blackhorse) (knives) and Todd Harris (taharris) (2 pipes) who are members of this forum but I checked the foums's BBB and asked other members about them. I got very good recommendations about both guys and I have been delighted with their work and their work ethic. By spending just a few minutes checking them out I avoided any unpleasant experiences. I buy a lot of items online but I do my homework before anyone gets my money. Please if you don't mind, take some advice from this old man who has bought thousand of items online during the past few years and I've never lost a dime: Do your homework, check references, understand the seller's return policy, look for money back guarantees, never pay in full up front for commisions (cautious partial payment is OK), and never ever send cash.

Sadly it's greed and power that drives people today. Understanding this and taking the proper precautions you can save yourself a lot of stress and misery. Getting stepped on, as you have discovered, isn't a pleasant experience and you have reason to be upset and disgruntled. I think by now you know it could have been avoided. Don't be offended, we all have to learn and the school of hard knocks is a good teacher. Smile

AJ
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:00 pm

DoverPipes wrote:
A story about two completely different carvers.......
There seems to be a recent trend of new pipe carvers who get a shit load of hype on the forums, Facebook and Youtube nowadays. They blow up overnight and have "a following" of agog fanboys.

I contacted one of these fellas before they had "made it big" and got on his "list". I stayed in contact. I received numerous e-mails saying, "You are coming up VERY soon and I want you to be ready once I start the process". Great! I thought. Then months pass that turn into years and dozens of pipes fly out of his shop and into the hands of people who got in long after I made "The list". I got an e-mail stating something to the effect, "Sorry, been real busy. Waiting on getting that special stain color for your pipe. It's gonna be the most unique pipe I will have done".....Then two more years and several e-mails later, the same carver is now selling pipes in the $500-$600 range. When I first contacted him and was put on the top of "The List", his pipes were going for around $200-$250.
I gave up on owning a pipe from this particular carver after waiting nearly five years.

Fast forward to the early Spring of this year.
Another, "New up and coming pipe artist" started posting his pipes all over the place and I contacted him about getting one. I sent a PayPal payment for the total amount UP FRONT and I am told it will be a couple of weeks to get the pipe in hand. Well, just like the first guy mentioned above, this guy is apparently selling a shit load of pipes to people who have only just ordered them recently. How do I know this? I have friends who have ordered from him and they only waited a month max! Only difference is the price went up after the carver got "buzz worthy". I can only guess that he isn't in a hurry to fill my order because like before, I got in early and my money isn't as good as the new buyers who are now paying more. What really pisses me off is, the carver posts pipes for sale nearly everyday on the net and I still sit waiting, and waiting and waiting.
I'm about to send a message requesting a full refund. Hell, I should even ask for interest because I'm sure my money is long since spent on materials to make pipes for other people or whatever he wanted to buy for himself!

What is wrong with people these days? You make a commitment and you need to follow through.

Am I wrong or is this considered poor form? scratch

You have every right to DEMAND a refund and should take ALL steps to effect this as the individual presented themselves as a BUSINESS and by accepting your payment contracted with you for delivery of a product in a timely manner!! As others have pointed out, there are OTHER custom pipe makers here on this Forum who have a history of honoring their commitments and as such, I would ONLY deal with them !! Twisted Evil
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scotties22

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:02 pm

Sorry to hear that Sean. It reflects poorly on newer carvers as a whole and there's just no way to change that. You will think twice before reaching out to a newer guy because of these experiences. And that really sucks because some times we just need a chance.

I have been doing this for a little over 3 years now and I still won't accept money up front, unless I am taking payments on something. It may take me a week or two longer than I say it will but I have never not made a pipe for someone. I also really like the price point I am at and don't see that changing drastically any time soon. Then again, I have no desire to be a rockstar....I just wanna make a great pipe at a great price. Cool
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:45 pm

Bums me out real bad to read this. I guess there's something to be said about factory pipes and direct in-stock purchases from reputable vendors.

I have only purchased a few artisan pipes, each purchase with results that more than exceeded my expectations. I agree with Scottie's formula for business in that money shouldn't change hands up front except perhaps for a minor percentage down to cover supplies or upfront costs for the carver (or whatever). Everyone I have dealt with on this board has been top notch and I would have no hesitation commissioning with one of them again.

Nonetheless this is a good cautionary tale of what can happen when considering branching out into the widening world of the "new carver"..
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:20 pm

I for one would be interested to learn who these new carvers are. Forewarned is forearmed they say.

Feel free to pm me with this info Sean if you don't want to post it. I'd really like to know as I'll be giving them a wide berth.


Cheers,

RR
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Ozark Wizard

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:22 pm

I'm with Ron on this one...........

Of course, out of 10 pipes I give away I might sell 2 or 3. Pipes are pipes. Art is art. Pay for a commission, get the art. You want a pipe? Grab one off the shelf or ask a buddy to cough one up.

Simple. But, that's only one of the names I've been called............
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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:51 am

DoverPipes, the younger people today only care about making lots of money, quickly, with minimal effort and resources. I was speaking recently with a european pipemaker taking apprentices and he told me that the young carvers today are sharks that only think about $$$ and nothing else. As where his generation were focused on creation and offering an excellent product, the young kids look at the selling price and only think about making money.
So, yea, damn right you should get a refund for your money, and right now. Because, indeed, this fellow thinks he's wasting his time making you a pipe at the price you paid for.
He's not respecting you at all.
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Briar Spirit

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Location : England UK
Registration date : 2012-08-30

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:16 am

DoverPipes wrote:
A story about two completely different carvers.......
There seems to be a recent trend of new pipe carvers who get a shit load of hype on the forums, Facebook and Youtube nowadays. They blow up overnight and have "a following" of agog fanboys.

I contacted one of these fellas before they had "made it big" and got on his "list". I stayed in contact. I received numerous e-mails saying, "You are coming up VERY soon and I want you to be ready once I start the process". Great! I thought. Then months pass that turn into years and dozens of pipes fly out of his shop and into the hands of people who got in long after I made "The list". I got an e-mail stating something to the effect, "Sorry, been real busy. Waiting on getting that special stain color for your pipe. It's gonna be the most unique pipe I will have done".....Then two more years and several e-mails later, the same carver is now selling pipes in the $500-$600 range. When I first contacted him and was put on the top of "The List", his pipes were going for around $200-$250.
I gave up on owning a pipe from this particular carver after waiting nearly five years.

Fast forward to the early Spring of this year.
Another, "New up and coming pipe artist" started posting his pipes all over the place and I contacted him about getting one. I sent a PayPal payment for the total amount UP FRONT and I am told it will be a couple of weeks to get the pipe in hand. Well, just like the first guy mentioned above, this guy is apparently selling a shit load of pipes to people who have only just ordered them recently. How do I know this? I have friends who have ordered from him and they only waited a month max! Only difference is the price went up after the carver got "buzz worthy". I can only guess that he isn't in a hurry to fill my order because like before, I got in early and my money isn't as good as the new buyers who are now paying more. What really pisses me off is, the carver posts pipes for sale nearly everyday on the net and I still sit waiting, and waiting and waiting.
I'm about to send a message requesting a full refund. Hell, I should even ask for interest because I'm sure my money is long since spent on materials to make pipes for other people or whatever he wanted to buy for himself!

What is wrong with people these days? You make a commitment and you need to follow through.

Am I wrong or is this considered poor form? scratch


So sorry this has befallen you, I can see why an individual would race towards the mighty dollar sign as becoming a big name quickly requires lots of money in the first place but that is not an Artisan in any way shape or form, that is a businessman and it sickens me to see the term Artisan attached to business people.

You are being messed about by a businessman, the situation here is not a lacking in means hard worker who simply cannot keep up with demand, this is essentially a businessman who has failed to keep a contractual agreement, you have every right and every reason to demand you money back, you mustn't feel you are in the wrong because you are not, not in my humble opinion at least.
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riff raff

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:10 am

I would also have been frustrated and angry by those experiences.

I would like to hope that carvers follow the process that Scottie describes. Although I have no problem putting a down payment on a commission.

I only have one commission to this point (Kelly Adylott, Royal Oak Briars), which was a great experience and pipe. I recently commissioned a pipe from Chris Asteriou in Greece. He quoted me a price, I accepted but he wouldn't take any payment up front. The pipe will be ready in 2-3 months. Hopefully I'll have the pipe sometime this Fall.
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Stick

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:26 am

Nicely put Kirk. Reminds me of someone I know Wink
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:21 am

Get your money back, like yesterday. Even if he should make you a pipe today, it's likely to be one he tosses off quickly, to reflect the loss of his current price. Know what I'm sayin'?  Wink
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docwatson

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Location : Central Massachusetts and midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2008-03-21

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:53 pm

Richard Burley wrote:
Get your money back, like yesterday. Even if he should make you a pipe today, it's likely to be one he tosses off quickly, to reflect the loss of his current price. Know what I'm sayin'?  Wink


Sean, the above quote would be my reply as well.

And like good friend Lee Von Erck told a roomful of guests at a recent pipe show while delivering a speech. Directed at the many younger new pipe makers. "Don't give up your day job". LOL
I have experienced the same situation as you have, where they all of a sudden become a popular pipe star and their prices average from $250-$300 and within a year jump up into the $400+ bracket. The majority of the new pipe makers are nothing more than a flash in the pan and will be gone in a few years. That's where the experienced pipe maker that has earned his/her keep and built a reputation over years of devotion to perfecting their craft comes into play. These are the makers that I admire and will buy their pipes.

I wish you luck and a pleasant outcome with this transaction. Hope to see you in the near future.
Andy
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DoverPipes

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Location : HUDSON VALLEY NY
Registration date : 2009-05-24

PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:57 am

puros_bran wrote:
Next time buy from an established pipe house off of an established retailer....... I'll buy a Dunhill/Castello/Etc if I have to pay those kind of prices.. At least then I have resale.  

PB: How long have we known each other? you know me better than that!Razz   I do and I have! I support several B&M shops and established / well known pipe carvers.

MisterE wrote:
Even if a pipe ever shows up, the bad experience will probably leave a sour taste in it.

Eric: Sadly, I think you are right......

monbla256 wrote:
As others have pointed out, there are OTHER custom pipe makers here on this Forum who have a history of honoring their commitments and as such, I would ONLY deal with them !! Twisted Evil

Monbla256: I have several pipes from carvers that are members here. Anyone that knows me or has seen my collection can attest, I do a very good job of supporting the Brothers & Sisters of Briar (Scottie is on my short list for something new!  Wink

scotties22 wrote:
Then again, I have no desire to be a rockstar....I just wanna make a great pipe at a great price. Cool

Scottie: You are a "Rock Star" in my book!!!! Wink

Richard Burley wrote:
Get your money back, like yesterday. Even if he should make you a pipe today, it's likely to be one he tosses off quickly, to reflect the loss of his current price. Know what I'm sayin'?  Wink

RB: My feelings exactly.......

docwatson wrote:
I wish you luck and a pleasant outcome with this transaction. Hope to see you in the near future.
Andy

Andy: You know me Andy, I won't let anyone pull one over on me! I really liked what I saw from these guys, but I guess I can always buy from someone I know and can TRUST!!!

PS: The Kaywoodie Holiday Extravaganza is being planned for December! santa  We are looking at shooting some Trap and Skeet before the event at the Gun Club that hosted us last year. Bring your "Boom Stick" and lots of AMMO!!!!!!! lol!
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docwatson

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:02 am

Skeet at the Holiday pipe extravaganza. ALL RIGHT. I'll be there. Sounds like a doubly good time. Pipes, tobacco, guns and ammo. LOL.... not to mention some great food and libations.
AC
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DGErwin11

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PostSubject: Re: A RANT ABOUT "NEW" PIPE CARVERS   Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:33 pm

This is why I prefer to sell pipes directly from my website. You see something you like, you buy at the listed price.

But I will do custom work on my terms. I only accept custom requests that I know I can do. I never do custom work that can not be listed on my website if the customer does not buy. I do not ask for deposits or prepayments. When done, I send pics to the customer. He likes, he buys. He doesn't like, it gets listed. I do tell them up front what the price will be.
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