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 First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of

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Jevverrett

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Age : 35
Location : Meriden, Ct
Registration date : 2014-12-13

PostSubject: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:42 pm

I kind of expected this one when I read through the FDA regs a bit. Russ Ouellette is canning his monthly blend line. I've personally never tried one that I can remember, a lot of people have though. Nothing about his standard house blends though. Yet anyway.

I'm guessing this would indicate stuff like the C&D small batch line is gonna go too. I would imagine that seasonal offerings are planned months, or even years in some cases. I doesn't seem as bad as I thought it was going to be. The timeline issue is an unknown for me, but nothing else in the summary of the news regs seems too off though. With acception of the fees structure.
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:54 pm

We are still in the grace period.
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flytyer

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Age : 51
Location : N E Pa.
Registration date : 2009-03-22

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:10 pm

I read that email about the monthly blends to. I cant help but think its there way of weeding out an item that maybe wasn't worth there time selling, maybe the monthly blend wasn't selling well. Just my thought on it.
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Ozark Wizard

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Age : 53
Location : Mark Twain National Forest, MO
Registration date : 2014-10-11

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:36 pm

Yup, got that notice as well.....

I figured that some of the 'spur of the moment' or 'seasonal' blends were going to 'follow the dinosaurs'. Russ, or whomever 'secures bottom line decisions' at P&C, saw which way 'the wind was blowing' and are most likely clearing out 'financial decisions' in favor of 'Grandfathered' products.

Good business sense, yet sad to see such artistic ability 'culled' by yet another 'Nanny States of America's' meddling..........

Good grief, I used a lot of buzz lines....

I need to get busy on my stash of plants, bales and blends.... I'll miss the TADs, but what can a guy do?

I looked, and I see that I have yet to try any of those blends. So, perhaps you can't miss what you never had? Right?
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Jevverrett

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Age : 35
Location : Meriden, Ct
Registration date : 2014-12-13

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:21 pm

I doubt he could launch a new product every month, without having to work ahead by several months. I dont know what the time period is for launching a new line with the fed, but it can't be too crazy. Microbreweries and wineries have the same sorts of regulations. Except that a grape is a grape by definition. Tobacco is tobacco too. Its just going to take some time to work out with the Feds. There is only so many different combinations of pipe tobacco you can have. That and the treatments for them are somewhat limited outside of natural products and mechanical processes.
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Ozark Wizard

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Age : 53
Location : Mark Twain National Forest, MO
Registration date : 2014-10-11

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:41 pm

Jevverrett wrote:
I doubt he could launch a new product every month, without having to work ahead by several months. I dont know what the time period is for launching a new line with the fed, but it can't be too crazy. Microbreweries and wineries have the same sorts of regulations. Except that a grape is a grape by definition. Tobacco is tobacco too. Its just going to take some time to work out with the Feds. There is only so many different combinations of pipe tobacco you can have. That and the treatments for them are somewhat limited outside of natural products and mechanical processes.

Oh my, yes! It takes a while to create palatable blends. It's rarely a moment in the morning of, "Today I will create!" If I'm reading the paperwork right, the product would need to be made to what the blender was after, then an up to two year testing period would be undertaken, lists of ingredients like on food products, health risk labels proposed, marketing, most of the usual stuff. The big issue I see at hand is the price tag. If alleged numbers hold true, a limited edition of 2400 tins would demand an astronomical price tag to warrant production, just in fees.

 It'll be cheaper to get your stuff from the UK or Australia than at home. At least for anything post 2007.....
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mgtarheel

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Age : 66
Location : The Tarheel State
Registration date : 2011-09-13

PostSubject: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:06 pm

FYI, Jack Lee Blends quit doing business about 4 weeks ago. Crying shame too, they had some great blends.
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idbowman

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Age : 35
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:51 am

I'm pretty sure I'd read/heard that Russ/P&C had flirted with ending the Blend of the Month program due to demand beginning to fade...my guess is the impending regs made that tough decision a little easier, but I don't think it was the only (or maybe not even the biggest) factor in the decision.

This is still very young - suits and countersuits have yet to be filed; injunctions, stays, and exemptions have yet to be sought. I doubt very much that the real-world lay of the land two years from now will look the way it does on paper, today. I'm guessing (hoping) that most of the major producers are of a somewhat similar mind and are waiting to see how the next 6-12 months play out before making any painful decisions.
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Old Nate
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Age : 34
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PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:41 am

It seems P&C are the only major retailer (e-tailer) addressing these FDA regulations. I have not heard nor seen anything from Smokingpipes, 4noggins, cupofjoes.... nadda. I could be missing it, as I have not spent countless hours reading or searching, but it looks to me like most retailers are treating it like it's going to drag on and this Aug 8th wont be the final nail in the coffin...

... am I right about this?
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
Registration date : 2011-04-09

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:08 pm

Old Nate wrote:
It seems P&C are the only major retailer (e-tailer) addressing these FDA regulations. I have not heard nor seen anything from Smokingpipes, 4noggins, cupofjoes.... nadda. I could be missing it, as I have not spent countless hours reading or searching, but it looks to me like most retailers are treating it like it's going to drag on and this Aug 8th wont be the final nail in the coffin...

... am I right about this?

Who knows? They may cut a deal or delay or compromise. Even if true, the ratchet tightens. Government is out of control, in case no one has noticed. The whole thing is B.S. We're supposed to control it, not the other way around. The Founders told me so. The acquiescence and acceptance bothers me as much as the regs.
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Old Nate
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Age : 34
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PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:02 pm

Can't say it any better than that! Amen.
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idbowman

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Age : 35
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:22 pm

Old Nate wrote:
It seems P&C are the only major retailer (e-tailer) addressing these FDA regulations. I have not heard nor seen anything from Smokingpipes, 4noggins, cupofjoes.... nadda. I could be missing it, as I have not spent countless hours reading or searching, but it looks to me like most retailers are treating it like it's going to drag on and this Aug 8th wont be the final nail in the coffin...

... am I right about this?

Aug 8th is when things go into effect on paper, but everyone has two full years to comply with the new regulations.  That means we've got about 26 months before the post-2007s are either approved or off the market.  A lot can happen in two years.

I'd bet dollars to to donuts that the reason we haven't heard of any action yet is because no one can take action yet, as the regulations aren't in force, yet.  The earliest we could possibly expect to see the industry pursue legal action/relief is on the August effective date, but I'd imagine it will be a few months after that before anything starts to move.

In short:  The relevance of August 8 is nothing more than that's the earliest companies can begin submitting products for approval and/or begin pursuing legal means to challenge the regulations/process.


I should add: I'm no lawyer.  I work with contracts and legalese all day, every day, so I have a reasonable understanding of the situation, but that doesn't make me anything close to an expert.  I have a few lawyer friends who agree with my interpretation, but none of us have read the 500 pages in their entirely, so take this all with a grain of salt.
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Old Nate
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Age : 34
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PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:26 pm

Thanks, Ian. Sums it up pretty well.
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idbowman

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Age : 35
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:29 pm

Old Nate wrote:
Thanks, Ian. Sums it up pretty well.


And RB is right, too. It's not even a Republican/Democrat thing anymore...it's the whole system. It's just too big, too present, too much. I'll leave it at that lest I tempt the powers that be into kicking this over to the RR.
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Jevverrett

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Age : 35
Location : Meriden, Ct
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PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:27 pm

I have a lot of trouble believing our government put something together that is going to work the way it was intended to. Trying to set up a system as large as this and get it moving is going to take the full two years at the least. I think the smaller outfits of the tobacco world are pulling out bc they don't have the infrastructure to handle the legal aspect of this. Maybe the smaller fish will band together into schools in time.
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oldmansmokingpipe

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Age : 63
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PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:52 pm

sucks.
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Ozark Wizard

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Age : 53
Location : Mark Twain National Forest, MO
Registration date : 2014-10-11

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:07 pm

oldmansmokingpipe wrote:
sucks.

Indeed....... A damn shame..........
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idbowman

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Age : 35
Location : Painesville, OH
Registration date : 2011-12-19

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:14 am

Jevverrett wrote:
I have a lot of trouble believing our government put something together that is going to work the way it was intended to. Trying to set up a system as large as this and get it moving is going to take the full two years at the least. I think the smaller outfits of the tobacco world are pulling out bc they don't have the infrastructure to handle the legal aspect of this. Maybe the smaller fish will band together into schools in time.

Bingo.

I expect the "big fish" to win a few battles worth fighting and that'll let the smaller ones work their way back into the pond.



This, by the way, is new territory for me. I'm pretty much always the eternal pessimist.
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ftrplt

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Age : 71
Location : Split between Raleigh, NC and OKC, OK
Registration date : 2007-12-15

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:34 pm

Usually the "law" requires that the plaintiff (that's them what makes the product!!) show that "harm" has been done by the actions of the accused (that's the scum-sucking gummamint pukes!!). As of yet, no harm, I guess. The feathers will fly in the next two years or so. cheers FTRPLT
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Jevverrett

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Age : 35
Location : Meriden, Ct
Registration date : 2014-12-13

PostSubject: Re: First FDA regulation casualty I've heard of   Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:05 pm

I be interested to see an American counterpart to the STG personally.
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