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MAW

MAW

Age : 56
Location : Caracas, Venezuela
Registration date : 2019-07-22

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PostSubject: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyMon Sep 23, 2019 4:26 pm

As I said in another post I had my hands on a bunch of plain Burley ribbon cut, since I am running away from Captain Black Golden bite tounge I decided to give a try to the less sugar/more nicotine specie.
It cames pretty dry I guess are left over of cigar fabrication, I already smoke a few bowls in different pipes and found it kind of unideimensional flavor (not and expert not even sesoned smoker) but is what I felt, as a cigar smoker is a flavor I used to so no problem with it, mild to my taste but pleasant, wife aproved the room note and this is a plus to me and yes the hit of nicotine is very noticeable but we are smoking tobacco so we can spect some nicotine once in a while, did not we?
Since it was pretty cheap and easy to get I am planing to do some casing or topping (not even know the differences yet) I mean add some flavors and humidity., I would like to adventure my self to press some plugs or cakes.
Any suggestions will be useful and highly appreciated
Thanks in advance
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SourMilk

SourMilk

Age : 39
Location : Florida
Registration date : 2018-03-01

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyMon Sep 23, 2019 5:02 pm

There are several members here who dabble in home blending that will be able to give real advice but I’ve picked up (though not used yet) a noodle press for homemade crumble cakes.

https://www.amazon.com/Newcreativetop-Stainless-Manual-Noodles-Machine/dp/B019P8B1PU

This one was recommended by others and seemed simple enough that not even I could mess it up. Just use wax paper at the end to keep the tobacco/juices from escaping.

Maybe look into bulk Virginia/Perique/Orientals to add to the Burley?

Mixing up a good dressing seems an art form and not sure where best to look for info regarding that.
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GeoffC

GeoffC

Age : 52
Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2011-10-23

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyMon Sep 23, 2019 5:56 pm

The bite might be from all the PG Captain Black puts in their blend. Maybe giving it time to air out would help. Also puffing too hard and even quality of the pipe used can contribute to tongue bite.

For plugs, many are using this device:

https://www.amazon.com/Newcreativetop-Stainless-Manual-Noodles-Machine/dp/B019P8B1PU/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=noodle+press&qid=1569275290&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&sr=8-1

The one downside to that press is eventually the plastic top will wear out. I have recently ordered 2 of these bad boys that are all metal but the shipping is going to be very slow.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32755338569.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37a74c4d4SZLh3

And it is just about perfect for making 50g plugs. I do a Virginia/Perique blend that is my daily. You can find the recipe for it but the perique I use is 7 years old and from an unknown source so if you want to try it you may want to cut the perique percentage in half.

I have also found just pressing Sutliff 515 RC-1 Red Virginia to be heavenly sweet smoke. Like smoking French Pastry with dark fruit and sugary sweetness. I know other folks have pressed Elizabethan Match with great success.

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MAW

MAW

Age : 56
Location : Caracas, Venezuela
Registration date : 2019-07-22

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Sep 24, 2019 10:16 am

First of all thanks for the responses.
I have a workshop at home plenty of choices to press the plugs I guess hydraulic press is the way to go lol!
What interesting me most is the casing and topping techniques you guy use at home, in my actual circustances the access to foerings goods is limited, I can get stuff from the online vendors but beleive me when I say is a pain in the pockect to say something, in fact I decided to give a try to the corncobs so I am ordering a bag of three senconds and a couple of pouch of tobacco from Missouri Meerschaum but build my tobacco cellar will take long, back to the topic I would like to take advantage of the local products, this will be a faster and cheapper way to experiment.
My orignal plan is steamed the burley ribbons with an infusion of water, rum, cinammon, cloves or anise (few of them at least) then stove the tobacco and keep it in a jard for a period of two weeks to a month.
Another option is topping the burley with the above infusion let it air dry and the press it in to a puck for about two weeks long.
As I originaly said I am not looking to make a winner my goal here is to add some profoundness to the already flatness of plain burley I have, why not have some fun and maybe get a nice smokable tobacco at the end.
What do you think or suggest?
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GeoffC

GeoffC

Age : 52
Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2011-10-23

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Sep 24, 2019 6:58 pm

Ask and ye shall receive! This is the notes I gathered that Ernie posted on another forum.

Ernie

Okie dokie. I’ve left the ‘baccy Elves in charge of guarding your orders at the shop and have a bit more time to talk about pressing etc.

First things first...and I CANNOT stress this enough. Every tobacco you buy commercially, unless it is in leaf form, has been cased. Every. Single. One. McClelland’s red Virginia was cased. Even Sutliff’s and other’s blending tobaccos are cased. All of them. I may have pissed a few people off on another forum a while back by saying this, but if you smoke raw leaf and like it, either you are fooling yourself or have the taste buds of a dumpster Rat. Now pressing, aging and heating can mellow tobacco, but casing is necessary to bring out the complexity In a given tobacco and to sort of steer it towards a certain flavor profile. (I’m not talking about top notes or aromatic sauces here....that’s something that is used to give a tobacco a “specific” aroma and taste.) I’m talking about acidic compounds that tobacconists use to a) Lower the ph of the tobacco (all leaf, especially air cured stuff like Burley, has a high ph in its raw form. And high ph = tongue bite) and, b) to underscore the good natural flavors of a type of tobacco, and, c) As an antibacterial to prevent mold, and, d) as a humectant to keep the tobacco fresh. My point here, is that adding casings and etc. to commercial blends is not gonna do anyone any good....it’s just gonna add more sugar to a blend and make it burn hotter. It’s also going to make a commercial blend sticky and hard to press properly. My suggestion is if you want to change a commercial blend, add another tobacco to it and then press it. Which brings me to my next topic:

Why press? There are many reasons. Pressing marries tobaccos. By that I mean it pushes the “essential oils” if you will or “flavoring compounds” out of each individual tobacco in a blend and harmonizes them. Here’s a simple experiment that will educate you and help train you palate. Mix some blending tobacco together...say a simple Balkan (use 1 oz of perique if you hate Latakia or leave it out entirely. )

3 parts Turkish
3 Parts Latakia
5 Parts Red Virginia
5 Parts green river black (unsweetened Black Cavendish)

Mix it up. Put half in a ziplock and half in the press for several days. Squeezing the tobacco enough to marry tales a crap-ton of pressure so cram it down hard the first day. The tobacco will settle and slacken a bit overnight so the next day give it a few more cranks. Do this for three or four days, depending on how much your press can handle. Then let it sit for a week. Now grab some of the loose mixture you put in the bag. Smoke it. Wait a few hours or a day and with a clean palate, slice off some of the plug and smoke that. Now you probably thought the loose stuff was pretty good, but the pressed has complexity, depth and a certain mellowness to it. Probably a little sweeter too. Why? Imagine a symphony in which each of the players is playing a perfect rendition each of a different song. Your trumpet is playing Bach, the flautist is playing Peter and the wolf, the drummer is playing jazz etc....all perfectly playing their own songs, but together it doesn’t sound so hot. In fact, when they stop and start playing the SAME song, what they were doing before sounds downright awful. Same situation with pressing. In the loose mixture, you are tasting ALL of the different tobaccos at once each doing their own thing. In the pressed version, you are smoking 4 different tobaccos that play together as one. Aging can also achieve this. Heat can do it too, but it takes precise temperatures for periods of time in controlled environments. Casings also help...but nothing harmonizes a tobacco like pressing.

Now I said earlier that blending tobacco is cased. The thing is that in my opinion it isn’t cased enough. They sort of give you a start, but they only case enough to bring the ph down a bit and maybe take the edge off the raw leaf.

I start all casings with a 1:1 Sugar Water mixture. I add 1 part sugar by weight to 1 part Water by weight and drop in a tablespoon of white vinegar per quart. You can use apple cider vinegar if you want a nice sort of fruity undertone. Then I just bring the stuff to a boil for about 10 minutes..and that’s it. That is a basic casing for blending tobacco. Now here’s the fun part...the part where you get to really steer your blend. You can add traditional casing materials to the mix to subtly accent a base tobacco. Traditionally, Virginia’s are grassy and citrusy and traditional casing materials for Virginia’s are

-Fresh citrus peel (lemon, orange, bergamot...whatever whacks yer noodle) (a tablespoon per quart of solution)
-lemongrass (1 stick per quart)
-prune Juice (3 or 4 Oz per quart )
-Red Wine (1 cup per quart)
-Honey (a teaspoon per quart. too much bites)
-Brown Sugar (use it in place of the white sugar in the base mix or add a 1/8th cup to the boil)
-cinnamon bark (1/2 to 1 full stick per quart)
-Coriander seed- (1 to 2 tsp. Per quart)
Etc...

Traditional Burley casings are
-Brewer’s licorice 2” to a quart of solution
-Molasses (1 tablespoon per quart)
Cocoa Hulls (good luck finding them...you can use cocoa powder but let it settle to the bottom of the solution overnight before draining off the liquid and throwing the “slurry” away. ( 1 -2 tablespoons per quart)
Rum (like an Oz to a quart of solution)
Anise seed (Tbsp. Per quart.) do NOT use anis Oil...or god forbid wintergreen oil or other so called essential oils.msome will make you cough and some will kill you.
Etc..
Now don’t go putting every one of these ingredients in the same solution. Smell and taste your base tobacco and then think about what might accent it. Get your water, sugar and vinegar on the stove and choose 1, 2 or, 3 of the other ingredients. Better off with one or two. Boil sugar water and vinegar together with whatever ingredients you choose and strain it if need be. Nothing is more annoying than getting your sprayer clogged.

Heat up your base tobacco. Do NOT case Latakia, Cavendish, Fire Cured or Perique. They have been taken care of already. Add them last after your base blend has rested. You can mix, say, several grades of Virginia together and case them at once, or, if you are feeling ambitious, case each one differently. Same with Burley. Put a pound of tobacco in the microwave in a ziplock with holes punched in it. Heat it for 2 -3 minutes. Get a spray bottle and put abou1 oz of warm casing it (that’s it...less is really more!. Store the rest in a mason jar in the fridge. If you leave it out of the fridge it may ferment and explode Dump the tobacco in one of your wife’s best bowls and spray it a few times. Mix it up. Get your hands dirty. Repeat. Seal the tobacco in Tupperware for a week. Take it out, add your Latakia, perique or other spice tobaccos as needed. dry it down to smokeable consistency if it isn’t already.

If you are going to press, heat it up again until it’s warm-hot...maybe 2 minutes per pound. Press away.

Finally, for those of you using raw leaf, everything above applies with the addition of the following: mist distilled water on the leaf before heating in the microwave. A little is all it takes. Also, use more casing...like 2 oz per pound. Finally, add about 1 tsp. of food grade Gum Arabic to your 2oz of warm casing. Mix it up well. That is the “glue” that flake makers use to get their leaves to stick together. (I never told you that


That outta keep you busy for a while.

Quick vid on how little casing is actually needed when using commercial blending tobacco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=B7Gr0fwAQiw

Did you guys know that Sutliff TS3 Cavendish is like 90% Matured Virginia? It is a sweeter more matured Virginia...and may be what you are looking for.

Yeah it’s got that slightly vinegary Virginia aroma for an undertone. Ang some decent Virginia sweetness both front and back. Not sure how they mature it but I think there’s inverted sugar and pressure involved. No carmelized aroma or flavor to my senses so probably no heat used. Comes a bit too moist si I dry it a bit. If anyone has smoked my “Fat Bastard” there’s a good amount In there and also a decent dose in the new “Terrapin Station” I haven’t used it in any Virginia or non Latakia blends yet and as I write this I wonder why because its right up my alley as far as taste profile goes. It may blend well Simply Red and just a touch of Perique. Maybe I’ll get to name a blend “Dirty Red Haired MILF” after all!

Way i I was taught to use vinegar was like a couple capfuls diluted into around 2 oz of water applied to 5 pounds....but I like using Apple Cider Vinegar in slightly greater amounts to accent the hay and grass of good Virginia, and then add a casing of sugar/water/lemon peel/coriander to just steer and bring out that nice light citrus flavor. We’re talking boil it all together for 15 minutes or so and then strain and apply hot to heated tobacco. Let sit for a couple days, cure til dry and bring back to smokeable moisture level with distilled water. You could save a step and add the vinegar to the casing, but I’ve always considered them separate processes....

Drying it to “crinkly dry” state really messes with the flavor oils in the leaf. Too moist and your leaf smolders and doesn’t burn. I like to try and get it to just above dry where it doesn’t make that crunchy sound when squeezed in your fist. But doesn’t stay formed either.

With cigars it’s the same...a cigar that is about 60 percent humidity is perfect and smokes well without getting tarry right down to the point where your lips start to catch fire. Problem: as a retailer I have to keep cigars at 70 to 75 percent because at some point some dope decided that since Cuba has a 70 degree 70 percent climate, then “By golly goodness, that what I’m gonna tell folks to do in my bran’ spankin’ new magazine there!.” ....so I if I keep store shelves at 60, every miscreant and his Uncle Joe will destroy them when they inevitibly come in and squeeze them to death to “check for freshness”. 70 percent may be a good baseline for leaf fermentation and perhaps to continue the aging process (maybe) but it’s not ideal for smoking. Thank you. That’s my rant for this evening. I’ll see myself out....

If it's PG based and strong enough, then it should be fine. Just go easy on PG...it can actually seal too much moisture into a blend....and make it very hard to dry down. Wherever possible I like to use inverted sugar (ie: Karo Syrup, Simple syrup etc...) as a carrier.

You could, but I really don't recommend letting any alcohol touch tobacco. It can change the tobacco in bad ways. A littlie rum or whisket diluted with syrup is fine, but straight booze is something I avoid.

I've never used coffee for an infusion but food grade flavoring is not great for tobacco...it flashes off pretty fast and contains too much alcohol. In the trade, we use industrial strength natural and artificial flavorings...get a drop on you and you smell like coffee for days. Here's what I would do if I were to make a coffee blend : If you are looking for a coffee pouch and top note then, yes, just grind some beand and put them in glass in a sealed container with your tobacco for a week.
There's also coffee Liqueur, and being liquid it would assimilate into the tobacco much better than the aromatic compounds from grinds.
If you want to "steer" the blend's flavor profile towards coffee and then give an extra punch of aroma I'd do the following:

1:1 plain table sugar to water (by weight) in a saucepan. Add about a half a cup of finely ground coffee and a tablespoon of white vinegar. Bring it just to a boil and turn off the heat.

Cool and let the grounds settle. Pour off the liquid from the grounds into a container...you do NOT want ground coffee in your blend.

Heat up your base blend (If you are gonna use any perique, Latakia or Fire Cured...add that AFTER casing.) in the microwave as I've described before. Heat up about 1 oz of the colution per pound of tobacco and heat that up to just short of hot. Spray the tobacco a few times. Mix it. Spray a few more times. Mix it etc... Seal it and let it rest in a closed container for at least 72 hours. Dry it down testing it's moisture content as I did in the video. NOW seal it uo again with a shot glass of coffee grounds and leave it for a week. Press it and give it a taste.

Coffee is an acidic substance and has been traditionally used for years by cigarmakers to homogenize and take the edge off their leaf. It's a solution called "Bethune" that they make. All cigarmakers use it and not one of them will admit to it.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT use food starch. You will make a giant mess.
Now one of the top reasons a cake won’t press well is too much moisture. Our “Old Black Magic” is a perfect example....because of the nature of the humectants present in Black cavendish, no matter how many tons of pressure is exherted, it just wont stay together .

My best advice to you guys is this: when it comes to casing, less is more. Much less. If you ball up the tobacco in your fist and It doesn’t start to expand after 5 seconds of opening your fist....it’s too wet. Heat definitely helps press but judge its moisture content BEFORE heating, as the heat will open the tobacco’s pores and make it seem too moist.

Press it. A day later the tobacco will have settled. Crank it again. Next day? Crank it down again. Leave it for a few days. That’ll do it.

Also, if you are pressing tinned or bulk commercial blends, you really don’t need or want to add casing. These blends have already been cased and adding more is going to make them burn hotter.

So nobody puts anything in their tobacco that will make my

pucker just hearing about it, here are some traditional casing ingredients for Virginia:

-White Vinegar (like a capful diluted in a couple oz H20 and sprayed on 5 pounds. For a 50g batch? Like 3 or 4 sprays...spray once and mix. Spray again and mix. Mix after each spray.

-Simple Syrup: 1:1 sugar to water by weight. You can add

The bottom line is,

a) you don't need or want a lot of sugar. You want a simple syrup of 1:1 sugar to water.
b) YES the vinegar is essential. Heating the tobacco opens the pores, not the Vinegar. Vinegar brings the Ph of the tobacco down. High Ph = tongue bite. It also serves to convert the sugars to a more suitable for some scientific reason i could care less about...it just works
c) Yes you can use honey (I'm actually a bee keeper). Honey needs to be used with a very light hand or it will macerate your tongue. More later.

Moisture level. Too much sugar and moisture (Sugar is also a humectant and holds moisture IN the tobacco) will actually make pressing difficult. More on this when I'm out of work tonight.

thougjt you folks might like this. There’s a video at the end. This is the original “home tobacco press”.

https://mysticknotwork.com/blogs/ne...dford-or-a-pound-of-tobacco-and-a-shot-of-rum

You guys really should try the spirit infusion method instead of just spraying booze on the blend. You get a much nicer taste and pouch aroma and no bite from the alcohol left in the leaf. It’s simple...get a Tupperware container. Put your blend in it. Put a shot glass smack in the middle with your spirit of choice. Leave it for several days, dry it to smokable consistency and press for a week. Gives a real delicate yet noticeable aroma and flavor.

Ok...see the shine on that? That’s a damn good sign that the press has done what you want it to do...bring the oils out of the various tobaccos to marry them. This is actually the best home press I’ve seen.

I’d like to see somebody mess around with some Virginia leaf.

Get about an oz of cheap red wine, a teaspoon of honey, a half oz of apple cider vinegar and bring it to boil with 3 oz water and 3 oz cane sugar (all measurements by weight) and a bit of fresh lemon or orange peel (tbsp. Total)
Grab as much stripped leaf as will fit that press and microwave it for a minute or two in a sealed ziplock with holes poked in it. If the leaf is bone dry mist it lightly with water before heating. Strain your casing an if it’s cool, heat it up to around 150 degrees. Put it in a sprayer and mist on about an oz per pound. If the tobacco is then too moist, dry it down to where it’s smokeable, then let it rest for a couple days.

Heat it up again for around 45 seconds and stuff it in the press. Crank it down hard. Next day, it will have settled so crank it a bit more. Do this every day for few days and then let it alone in the press for a week. 2 is better.

If you did it right, you’ll wind up with a plug that’s about 3 times as dark as it was originally.

The trick here is moisture content. You want to put it in the press at about the same moisture level you’d smoke it at...maybe just a bit drier. Too dry and it’ll turn to powder when (If you even can) cut, too moist and it won’t press well...it’ll be the consistancy of a soggy brownie.

You really used your “noodle” with this idea.


The age old argument regarding what "true Cavendish" is, notwithstanding, here's how to sweeten up your own tobacco. I haven't found the need to make Cavendish as I think there are plenty of good ones out there to work with...but if'n ya got the urge, here's how I'd do it:

Get as big a steamer as you need for your batch. For those of you who are home-economically disinclined...that's a big pot with a basket in the middle with a lot of holes in it.

Choose your tobacco. You can make "Cavendish" out of just about anything, but stay away from Latakia and Perique. You can use Burley, Virginia, Even fire cured or Orientals or a blend. Keep in mind that this process will "mute" some of the flavors in Fire Cured and Orientals, though.

Don't bother casing your tobacco as in the method for casing I described in the sticky thread..it isn't necessary here.

Choose a "sugar" for your Cavendish, or, for a more natural sweetness, choose a tobacco that has a high natural sugar content....like a bright Virginia. You can use Molasses, Cane Sugar, Brown Sugar, Turbinado, Black Treacle, Golden treacle etc....just go easy on the Honey as it can really bite.

Make a solution by WEIGHT of:

3 Part Sugar
3 Part Water
1 Part Vinegar (White or Apple Cider is what I use)

Heat it up to just before boiling but let it cool to around 100 degrees so it wont mess up your spray bottle. You won't need to pre-heat your tobacco. Use about 1/2 cup of solution per pound of tobacco. Spray. Mix. Spray. Mix. Get your hands into it. it'll be sticky...suck it up, sissies!

Put the tobacco in your steam basket. Fire it up and let it rip, replenishing water as needed. Don't fill the reservoir so high that it boils up and hits the tobacco on the bottom as it will ruin it. Stir it up, bringing the bottom to the top several times per half hour. more is better. less is bad.

How long you steam for is dependent on what result you want. If you want to just sweeten up a base tobacco or base blend, a couple hours does a fine job. Want to start caramelizing sugars for that darker sweeter flavor? Go up to six hours. Want to go full on caramelized black Cavendish? Anywhere from 12 to 24 hours (watch the color) but are you really gonna stay awake for all that stirring?

When it's finished, scoop out the now limp, wet, disgusting looking tobacco with one of those strainer spoon thingies and lay it out on cookie sheets thinly. I would sun cure the sheets but a warm dry room or even an oven at VERY low temps (certainly under 90 Degrees) until crispy dry should be fine.

Grab some distilled water. Heat it. Mist it over the tobacco. come back a half hour later and see how the tobacco feels. If it's too dry still, mist again. Do this as many or as few times as you need to get it to the humidity level you prefer. Stuff it all in a bag or a jar, let it rest for a week and Bob's yer Uncle.
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pistolero

pistolero

Age : 50
Location : NC
Registration date : 2010-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Sep 24, 2019 7:28 pm

AWESOME! Thanks GeoffC!
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GeoffC

GeoffC

Age : 52
Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2011-10-23

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Sep 24, 2019 7:31 pm

pistolero wrote:
AWESOME! Thanks GeoffC!

Anytime. Ernie is the blender for Watch City Cigars. I have found nowhere on the the internet a wealth of knowledge as he dropped on the subject.
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MAW

MAW

Age : 56
Location : Caracas, Venezuela
Registration date : 2019-07-22

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Sep 24, 2019 7:47 pm

I will give it a good read with a smoking bowl Laughing
Thank you very much GeoffC
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MAW

MAW

Age : 56
Location : Caracas, Venezuela
Registration date : 2019-07-22

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyWed Sep 25, 2019 1:29 pm

Very enlightenment and profound reading you shared with us GeoffC thank you very much.
Beside to be called a dumpster rat lol! the Ernie lesson not only clarify some misconceptions about blends and tobacco process but give us some real life recepies to work with.
I will give them a try and let you guys know how it ends
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MAW

MAW

Age : 56
Location : Caracas, Venezuela
Registration date : 2019-07-22

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Oct 08, 2019 3:43 pm

I am back to report some of my results.
After more than a week I cased a bunch of the main Burley I have been smoking, using the suggestions give us by a GeoffC previous post I made a mix of water, sugar, vinager and cloves for the sauce, the ribbons were heated, misted with the sauce and vacum sealed in a jar for about ten days.
What I found was a green tea leaf type aroma and the taste was very similar to what I had before casing maybe and just maybe a little bit less rough, I should confess that after watch the video about how much solution must be using for casing I could end up using less than I should but since this was my first attempt I decided to keep things in the save zone.
I gonna try a couple of bowls more before re-casing to see if can I get a more substantial result.
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GeoffC

GeoffC

Age : 52
Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2011-10-23

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PostSubject: Re: Plain Burley   Plain Burley EmptyTue Oct 08, 2019 4:59 pm

Love hearing your experience with this!
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