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 All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.

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Buck

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Registration date : 2008-12-17

PostSubject: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:47 am

For those like me who depend on online mail delivered
tobacco and supplies some really bad news to share.......

Please read the text of the bill to see that any mail delivered
tobacco will be banned.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1400:
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Doc Manhattan

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Age : 39
Location : Land of Steady Habits
Registration date : 2008-05-26

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:12 am

On the one hand, boo hiss government meddling. On the other hand, UPS.
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john-in-kc



Location : Flyover Country USA
Registration date : 2009-01-09

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:36 am

Yes, it's worth fighting.

No, it's not everything.

Read the text of the legislation:
Sec. 3002b. Nonmailability of certain tobacco products

`(a) In General- Except as provided in subsections (g) and (h), cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, and roll-your-own-tobacco--

Cigarettes
Chewing/snuff/snus
RYO

It's worth fighting because folks can add to it down the trail
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:41 am

So far it allows personal mailings of 10 oz or less

It could become a very large pain in the rear end by the time they finish with it

and it didnt especially name pipe tobacco


Quote: (1) the terms `cigarette' and `roll-your-own-tobacco' have the meanings given them by section 5702 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;

`(2) the term `smokeless tobacco' has the meaning given such term by section 2341 of title 18; and

`(3) the term `State' includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.'.
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Yooper



Age : 66
Location : U.P. Michigan
Registration date : 2009-02-01

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:42 pm

Rights and freedoms are eroded in much the same way as a mouse eats an elephant, one small bite at a time.
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HistoryMajor

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Age : 28
Location : Alberta, Canada
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:22 pm

That's aggravating...seeing as I'd rather not be spending twenty to thirty bucks for a 2 oz. tin... Evil or Very Mad
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Rail Man

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Age : 34
Location : North Dakota
Registration date : 2007-12-23

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:24 pm

Let's face it, the government won't stop until it has total control over everything we do. The biggest mistake that people make and have made is that if a particular thing doesn't affect them, or a "get even with them" attitude is taken, at some point there will be something that comes along to affect them, and by then it will be too late.

This bill doesn't have anything concerning cigars and pipe tobacco, but at some point it will. There has to be a strong effort to put a stop to anything that limits personal freedom, even if it's something that doesn't really affect us personally, because someday something will.
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HistoryMajor

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Age : 28
Location : Alberta, Canada
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:26 pm

Yep...we all owe George Orwell big for his contribution to our rhetoric lol!

In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
~ Pastor Martin Niemoller
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Pseudo Nim

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Age : 64
Location : Lancashire England
Registration date : 2009-01-15

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:25 pm

Could it be that if the right questions were asked, this bill might fail ? for instance, if one were to ask "How dare you put this Bill through because I can't get my tobacco ?" The Anti's would be all over you like a bad rash, however, if this were rephrased to something like "The abolition of mailing of tobacco would not only reduce the revenue of the postal service and the tobacco industry, but also of the Federal Government. Therfore, during these troubled times, would it be prudent to reduce the tax revenue to the economy while at the same time, providing tax dollars for bonuses of senior AIG executives ?"

Just a thought.
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Doc Manhattan

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Age : 39
Location : Land of Steady Habits
Registration date : 2008-05-26

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:50 pm

I don't like this bill, because it's a drag on small businesses who have invested in USPS infrastructures, but honestly I can't see how it limits my personal freedom to purchase or smoke tobacco. This legislation is the federal government setting policies for a federal business. The government has no right to say we can't privately transport a legal substance, by ourselves or through a courier, but they have no obligation to provide that service. (Just as the second amendment doesn't mean the government has to open a store to sell you a gun.)

The USPS is self-sufficient--for all intents and purposes, they're just a store that the government runs. A customer has no right per se to tell a business what they must sell. They are free to ask, of course--and we can ask by writing our representatives to kill this bill... I certainly will.

If this bill forbid *any company* from transporting tobacco, it would be a genuine prejudicial restriction of free trade, and would be overturned the way the blanket ban on courier companies shipping alcohol was a few years ago.
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LL

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Location : KCMO
Registration date : 2007-12-29

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:50 pm

Misleading thread title. Snuff and RYO is hardly "all".
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Yooper



Age : 66
Location : U.P. Michigan
Registration date : 2009-02-01

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:21 pm

What purpose is served by passing this bill?
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HistoryMajor

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Age : 28
Location : Alberta, Canada
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:17 pm

Likely forces people to buy tobacco where it is not as expensive, ie. at stores, which due to the added cost, will compel people to smoke. I think anyhow, that would be my guess.
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Doc Manhattan

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Age : 39
Location : Land of Steady Habits
Registration date : 2008-05-26

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:20 pm

Yooper wrote:
What purpose is served by passing this bill?
If the rumblings in NY are any indicator, it may be a backdoor way of cracking down on the legal grey area of mail-order cigarette sales by American Indian nations, and by extension the people who resell those products without paying taxes. (The exempted 10 oz. is a lot of cigarettes--about nine packs--so the legislation is definitely targeting higher-volume sales.)

You can't ask a federal agency to enforce a state's tax laws--they lack jurisdiction, and would lose any court case. And interstate commerce and tax lawas are so complicated that it's not practical to make every postal clerk a paralegal. But you can eliminate the service that leads to the alleged violations of the laws.
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Yooper



Age : 66
Location : U.P. Michigan
Registration date : 2009-02-01

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:36 pm

It makes little sense to me to crack down on legal trade. If private couriers will move the product, then how has the government cracked down on anything?
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HistoryMajor

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Age : 28
Location : Alberta, Canada
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:42 am

True...however, from where I stand up here, it worries me, because courier services are scrutinized much more closely at the border, so using USPS is the safest bet for getting tobacco to Canada without it being vandalized or taxed to high hell.

As it stands now, I don't think you can sell cigarettes online in Canada. There are a couple of cigar stores, and one that sells pipe tobacco...but compared to US prices they're way high. Either way, it's a rather interesting policy issue in my opinion, but here I think they cracked down before internet sales became popular. The sad thing in the US is that it would put people out of work. There are quite a few retailers who deal only in snuff and RYO tobacco, so it would pose a serious threat to their business...if SCHIP hasn't demolished the RYO industry...
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Stefanos

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Location : Illinois
Registration date : 2008-10-29

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:46 pm

It may come to the point when a young man with an uncertain future would consider studying for the smuggling profession. I don't think the risk/reward ratio is high enough yet, though.
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HistoryMajor

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Age : 28
Location : Alberta, Canada
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:03 am

Quote :
It may come to the point when a young man with an uncertain future would consider studying for the smuggling profession.
I'm pretty sure it's only smuggling if it's engineered to deceive customs...what the retailer labels the package as, or what customs does/doesn't do is out of my hands.Wink

It was that profitable for a while in Eastern Canada in the early 1990s, because taxes were about as high as they are now. The federal government had to drop them just to restore legal purchases of cigarettes...

Whether or not it'll get there again, I'm not sure. Hopefully not, the last thing we need is more crime.
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gkhanna74



Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2008-06-04

PostSubject: Re: All mail delivered tobacco to be banned.   Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:55 pm

Unless all mail carriers ban tobacco shipments (UPS; DHL; Fedex; USPS), the ones that don't will get all the tobacco business. It seems really silly that one carrier would ban shipments --- if they are standing up on "principle", they will be punished economically, which imay be the only way to get our message across.
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