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Buck

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PostSubject: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:30 pm

WASHINGTON Anti-smoking forces won a long-awaited victory Thursday as the House passed legislation that would give the federal government key controls over the tobacco industry for the first time.

The measure, passed 298-112, gives the Food and Drug Administration authority to regulate but not ban cigarettes and other tobacco products.

The Senate could take up its version of the bill later this month, and supporters are confident they can overcome opposition from tobacco-state senators. The White House supports the legislation, a shift from the Bush administration which threatened to veto a House-passed measure last year.

President Barack Obama has spoken publicly about his own struggles to kick a smoking habit.

"This is truly a historic day in the fight against tobacco, and I am proud that we have taken such decisive action," said Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the bill's sponsor. "Today we have moved to place the regulation of tobacco under FDA in order to protect the public health, and now we all can breathe a little easier."

Waxman and his Senate counterpart, Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., have promoted legislation giving the FDA regulatory powers over tobacco products since the Supreme Court in 2000 ruled that the agency did not have that authority.

That ruling came after years of lawsuits and debate on the issue, including Waxman's memorable 1994 hearing where the heads of big tobacco companies testified that nicotine was not addictive.

Waxman's Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act wouldn't let the FDA ban nicotine or tobacco outright, but the agency would be able to regulate the contents of tobacco products, make their ingredients public, prohibit flavoring, require much larger warning labels and strictly control or prohibit marketing campaigns, especially those geared toward children.

Kennedy plans to introduce his version of the bill after Congress returns from its April recess. Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., is expected to lead the opposition, but supporters are confident they can clear the 60-vote threshold needed to break a filibuster.

"FDA regulation of cigarettes the most lethal of all consumer products is long overdue," Kennedy said Thursday. "I am confident that the Senate will approve it expeditiously."

Opponents from tobacco-growing states such as top-producing North Carolina argued that the FDA had proven through food safety failures that it's not up to the job. They also said that instead of unrealistically trying to get smokers to quit or prevent them from starting, lawmakers should ensure they have other options, like smokeless tobacco.

That was the aim of an alternate bill offered by Rep. Steve Buyer, R-Ind., who would leave the FDA out and create a different agency within the Health and Human Services Department. His proposal failed on a 284-142 vote.

"Effectively giving FDA stamp of approval on cigarettes will improperly lead people to believe that these products are safe, and they really aren't," Buyer said. "We want to move people from smoking down the continuum of risk to eventually quitting."

Major public health groups, including the American Lung Association and the American Medical Association, wrote to lawmakers asking them to oppose Buyer's bill, contending it would leave tobacco companies without meaningful regulation and able to make untested claims about the health effects of their products.

Buyer pointed out that Waxman's bill is supported by the nation's largest tobacco company, Marlboro maker Philip Morris USA. Officials at rival tobacco companies contend the Waxman bill could cement Philip Morris' market advantage.

Lorillard Tobacco Co. said in a statement that among other problems, Waxman's bill "leads to an industry monopoly by locking in the huge market share of our largest competitor while eliminating our ability to communicate with our adult smokers."
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:34 pm

This should come as not surprise to you Buck. Didn't you support Obama and his constituents? I could be wrong and if I am I stand corrected but I have detected a note of defense for Obama's trickery in some of your posts.
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:37 pm

Further more, we better hope that this doesn't pass the senate becasue if it does, the small batch blenders of the high grade blends, such as Pease and C&D will be all but regulated out of business. Way to go socialist supporters!!!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:48 pm

"Buyer pointed out that Waxman's bill is supported by the nation's largest tobacco company, Marlboro maker Philip Morris USA. Officials at rival tobacco companies contend the Waxman bill could cement Philip Morris' market advantage.

Lorillard Tobacco Co. said in a statement that among other problems, Waxman's bill "leads to an industry monopoly by locking in the huge market share of our largest competitor while eliminating our ability to communicate with our adult smokers."

I don't think this is the definition of socalism JP. My impression is that it's yet another example of more unregulated big businesses with deep pockets & highly paid professional lobbiest getting their tentacles anywhere they can.
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:03 pm

EJinVA wrote:

I don't think this is the definition of socalism JP. My impression is that it's yet another example of more unregulated big businesses with deep pockets & highly paid professional lobbiest getting their tentacles anywhere they can.

EJ, that is why I said that the small batch blenders that I used as examples would be regulated out of business. I have been following this closely and yes the big tobacco companies are partly behind it for that reason and it will create a monopoly. How much more socialist can you get than to have a state run and regulated tobacco industry? And you might as well call them state run. Ask the citizens of Turkey!

Ask small farmers in the beef industry how they are being regulated out of business while we are forced to eat big farming corporations's mass produced hormone injected meat at the will of the state! Ask small dairy farmers that are all but non-existant anymore. I know many of them. The same thing will happen to the tobacco industry and if you smoke, the tobacco you smoke will be grown and processed in a fashion that God only knows where and how!
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:15 pm

Barack Obama and the current government might be a lot of folks daddy but they ain't mine and I ain't going to ackowedge them as so! I respect the US Constitution and the current adminstration doesn't, nor did the last in the last 4 years of their tenure! If they are trampling on our Constitution and especially the word of God then I am not obligated to follow them like a blind sheep! Some folks might feel like they are and I say shame on them!
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Doc Manhattan

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:16 pm

I tend to side with EJ here--this seems more like a power-grab by Philip Morris to have the first "FDA-approved" cigarette on the market.

I think the smaller craftsman blenders would actually be relatively unscathed, since they use no artificial additives and don't have to justify the safety of cigarette paper, binders, effect of filters, etc. Tobacco is the only "controversial" ingredient they employ, and the bill says they can't ban that.

(For the record, if this passes the Senate with the same majority as the House, it wouldn't matter if Barry Goldwater were President: it's a veto-proof majority, just like the SCHIP bill passed with. You don't get a supermajority on a party line vote. The Republicans who helped these measures glide through--and the party that still welcomes them to caucus--are a beam in the eye of conservative principles.)
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Buck

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:35 pm

Justpipes wrote:
Barack Obama and the current government might be a lot of folks daddy but they ain't mine and I ain't going to ackowedge them as so! I respect the US Constitution and the current adminstration doesn't, nor did the last in the last 4 years of their tenure! If they are trampling on our Constitution and especially the word of God then I am not obligated to follow them like a blind sheep! Some folks might feel like they are and I say shame on them!

With your Uber-conservative Republican beliefs this political forum
would be a good place for you to vent you political hatred for Obama
among people of like mind.

http://perspectives.com/forums/
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Buck

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:42 pm

One needs to remember that this bill hasn't passed the Senate yet.

That said, I doubt that it will with the heel dragging power of the party
of NO! Republicans doing their best to stop it.

Then we also have to remember that it's the cigarette companies that
are the central focus of this bill with good reason I might add. Cigarettes
NEED oversight to stop them from producing such a chemically toxic
product. Pipe tobacco may not be squeeky clean but it by no means has
all the toxic chemicals that are used to addict the consumers as cigarettes
do. Besides pipe tobacco is well below the radar here.
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:45 pm

The only part that concerns me is the "flavorings" regulation. I mean, I don't care if Primetimes and Captain Blacks are regulated out of the markets, but what does that mean for cased/topped pipe tobacco?

Quote :
especially the word of God
eh?
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kilted1
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:47 pm

Buck wrote:
One needs to remember that this bill hasn't passed the Senate yet.

That said, I doubt that it will with the heel dragging power of the party
of NO! Republicans doing their best to stop it.

Then we also have to remember that it's the cigarette companies that
are the central focus of this bill with good reason I might add. Cigarettes
NEED oversight to stop them from producing such a chemically toxic
product. Pipe tobacco may not be squeeky clean but it by no means has
all the toxic chemicals that are used to addict the consumers as cigarettes
do. Besides pipe tobacco is well below the radar here.

You seem curiously hell bent on castigating anyone not of a liberal mindset, expressing their views, yet astonishingly forceful in voicing your views about 'the heel dragging power of the party of NO! Republicans'. There IS a forum for this kind of discussion, it's called The Rubber Room.
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Buck

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:04 pm

kilted1 wrote:
Buck wrote:
One needs to remember that this bill hasn't passed the Senate yet.

That said, I doubt that it will with the heel dragging power of the party
of NO! Republicans doing their best to stop it.

Then we also have to remember that it's the cigarette companies that
are the central focus of this bill with good reason I might add. Cigarettes
NEED oversight to stop them from producing such a chemically toxic
product. Pipe tobacco may not be squeeky clean but it by no means has
all the toxic chemicals that are used to addict the consumers as cigarettes
do. Besides pipe tobacco is well below the radar here.

You seem curiously hell bent on castigating anyone not of a liberal mindset, expressing their views, yet astonishingly forceful in voicing your views about 'the heel dragging power of the party of NO! Republicans'. There IS a forum for this kind of discussion, it's called The Rubber Room.

I'm not the one who got all political here. It seems that when the heat
gets to hot for Republicans they start to wiggle and look for the door.
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:09 pm

I suppose the question that needs to be answered is just how much resistance there will be to this bill. Yes, an opposition leader was recognized, but I got the impression that nobody cared that much about it.

For a bit of context, we have this in Canada, and in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter all that much, in terms of products produced by big tobacco. There are very few small blenders and tobacco growers here.

But, on the plus side, our tobacco has substantially less additives, flavourings and preservatives. If you're interested, this business is outlined by Imperial Tobacco at this Link

I think Doc Manhattan makes a good point - the smaller blenders won't be too affected, because I imagine this is more targeted at cigarettes.

Though every time you smoke you'll get to see these! Razz Nice packaging is pretty much the best thing about buying tobacco in the U.S!
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Oddball

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:33 pm

I hate to think how much Capt Black I have attempted to smoke before I got wise.
More to the point, yeah CB and PT flavored sticks o "tobak" are at the bottom of the quality smoke but I would rather keep every tobak produced around. I can't think CB would be in production if there wernt still enough sold to justify it. Those folk are still our brothers even if they have poor taste.
Just my 0.02
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Doc Manhattan

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:56 pm

HistoryMajor wrote:
Though every time you smoke you'll get to see these! Razz Nice packaging is pretty much the best thing about buying tobacco in the U.S!
That's why you have a cigarette after you have sex! Have these people never seen an old movie?

(I don't care much for cigs, but it'll break my heart if they mess with the Lucky Strike package. That's an American classic.)
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:03 pm

Oddball wrote:
I hate to think how much Capt Black I have attempted to smoke before I got wise.
More to the point, yeah CB and PT flavored sticks o "tobak" are at the bottom of the quality smoke but I would rather keep every tobak produced around. I can't think CB would be in production if there wernt still enough sold to justify it. Those folk are still our brothers even if they have poor taste.
Just my 0.02

Oddball,

I hate to tell you this but if this thing happens to get signed into law, eventually about the only thing you will be able to get will be the mentioned tobaccos that are massed produced by the big tobacco conglomerates.

Of course that would probably work out good for me and the rest of us that like the "drug store" blends! Very Happy IMHO though this is not what this thing is about. It is about more regulations and state sanctioned monopolies! Of course if you are like Buck you just lay down and take what ever the state spoon feeds you! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:05 pm

Doc Manhattan wrote:
HistoryMajor wrote:
Though every time you smoke you'll get to see these! Razz Nice packaging is pretty much the best thing about buying tobacco in the U.S!
That's why you have a cigarette after you have sex! Have these people never seen an old movie?

(I don't care much for cigs, but it'll break my heart if they mess with the Lucky Strike package. That's an American classic.)

Doc, your light hearted view of things is refreshing........... Very Happy
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:06 pm

Jason,

You probably need to move this thread to the Rubber Room.
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:17 pm

Quote :
I hate to think how much Capt Black I have attempted to smoke before I got wise.
More to the point, yeah CB and PT flavored sticks o "tobak" are at the bottom of the quality smoke but I would rather keep every tobak produced around. I can't think CB would be in production if there wernt still enough sold to justify it. Those folk are still our brothers even if they have poor taste.
Just my 0.02
Yeah, I think that's a pretty fair point.
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Buck

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:25 pm

Justpipes wrote:
Of course if you are like Buck you just lay down and take what ever the state spoon feeds you! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Typical Republican snipe. A final parting shot to turn blame from
the Republican failures.

Yes, Take this to the Rubber Room since the info intent has been now
subverted into a political argument by a Republican. No
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Rail Man

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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:45 pm

How about Kennedy's line about tobacco being the most lethal consumer product? What about the average family car? The automobile is highly regulated yet look at all the deaths caused by cars every year? Typical scare tactic.

Also the Republicans have no power to even slow this down, they don't have the votes. The Dems can pass anything they want without one Republican vote (it's already happened). The idea that Republicans standing in the way and saying no is a myth. They may be saying no, but they're being promptly bulldozed over.
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PostSubject: Re: FDA tobacco control passes House   Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:46 pm

Phillip Morris supports the bill...
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