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 A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices

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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:04 pm

Go to miscellaneous links...

Canadian Tobacco Tax Calculator

http://homepage.mac.com/ericmelby/Pipes/links.html

In Alberta, tobacco is $120.00 a pound for taxes alone

200 pounds = $24,000 Laughing Laughing

Think about it... that's on top of shipping and the price of the tobacco... oh, the taxes just went up in the recent budget in Alberta...

Shocked Shocked Shocked
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TallSmoke

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:23 pm

That's in Canadian dollars, right?
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:47 pm

The exchange rate is factored in at about the current rate of exchange... yes Canadian $$ but it was only a few months ago the USD and CND were on par.
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:02 pm

Just read this....

http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090412/EDM_smoketax_090412/20090412/?hub=EdmontonHome

Quote :
Updated: Sun Apr. 12 2009 17:19:26

ctvedmonton.ca

A new tobacco tax hike introduced by the provincial government last week, which will dramatically increase the price of loose tobacco, has smokers outraged.

Under the new tax structure the price of a 200 gram carton of packaged cigarettes will rise by about $3, but the price for the same amount of loose tobacco will jump by about $23. "It's going to cost me if I want to continue smoking my pipe, about $600 a year or so," said smoker Dave Scott.

The owner of Burlington on Whyte Tobacconists says he has been selling tobacco for years and can't believe the Alberta Government made the province's tobacco amongst the most expensive in the country.

"I can't begin to imagine why they would have such a huge discrepancy between the increase in loose tobacco and the increase in cigarettes," said tobacco store owner Chris Hansen.

Some smokers see the hike as a cash grab disguised as a health promotion.

"I think alcohol and tobacco products, they're the easy ones to raise taxes on and you don't get too much of a backlash," said smoker Dave Scott.

However, the tax hike is being applauded by anti-smoking advocates who welcome any increase to the price of the tobacco.

"Tobacco taxes are the single most effective means of reducing and preventing tobacco use, especially among young people," said anti-smoking advocate Les Hagen.


This is unbelievable... tax increase

cigarette tobacco increase.............. $3.00
same amount of pipe tobacco.........$23.00

that's new tax on top of our huge taxes already...

Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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pipetongue1
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:23 pm

Don't worry Puffs, if I got it, you got it!!We'll stage a raid on Parliment! It will be Easter 1916 all over again! Ken alien tongue
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:08 pm

Oh my god...I didn't realize it affected pipe tobacco so much.

Iris Evans is getting a helluva angry email in the morning.
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:15 pm

I should also say that tomorrow morning, I'm going to spend what money I can afford to at Chris's store, and let him know that his customers are here for the long run.

Plus, I've Facebook messaged all my smoking friends to inform them to bombard Ms. Evans.
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Joseph76

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:32 am

this is why I'm building a lifetime supply...

SCHIP taxes in the USA were suppose to raise pipe baccy 1.70$ a lb... I'm seeing increases of $2 on 100gr tins.

If you plan on smoking your pipes long into the future you'd be wise to buy as much as you can now.
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Mikem
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:04 am

I make my wife RYO cigarettes. The price for a one pound bag of tobacco use to cost me around $17. As of April first it is that same $17 with a $25 tax added onto it. My bulk pipe tobacco only went up about $2 a pound. I see were a couple of the larger RYO cigarette blenders have quit doing cigarette tobacco and cutting it in ribbon and flake form and re-distributing the "new" cut tobacco as pipe tobacco. I bought seven pounds of cigarette tobacco before the April 1st schip tax went into affect. It should last here about six months. Tried to no avail to get her to give up the cigarette and go to pipes. Ain't gunna happen.
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:53 am

Maybe I'll have to start stockpiling... Mad
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beaupipe

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:58 am

Joy of joys.

But I'm confused: is tinned tobacco considered 'loose tobacco'?
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:17 am

Quote :
But I'm confused: is tinned tobacco considered 'loose tobacco'?
Should be, yup. I think loose tobacco refers to everything but cigars, cigarettes, beedis, and cigarillos. Basically everything that isn't rolled...

Mind you, perhaps an argument could be made for flakes and stuff.

If I end up going in to see Chris, I'll ask him, and report back.
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SmokeyTweed

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:18 am

Absolutely ridiculous! Didn't N. America invent buying in bulk as a way to save money? Bunch of hypocritical government bs if you ask me.

I will also still be buying at Chris' and still be buying loose because i like his blends...on another note any brothers interested in sending me their most disliked tobacco in bulk i would be happy to make sure when the tobacco raids come i'll be smoking up the stash...even...gulp...Walnut.
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:04 pm

BTW, there was a video of Chris on the Edmonton Journal website yesterday. I could figure out how to get the link to post it here.
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Troll

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:46 pm

I realize this is a useless post. However, I think an unified effort could be made to aid our North country brothers. I know we (YANKS) have our own unfair tax problems, but nothing like what confronts the Albertans. I'm quite unfamiliar with things like international duties, taxes, etc. Perhaps this is just another dumb pipe dream.
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:19 pm

It's not a "useless" post. It's a very kind post Troll.

Actually, the damage has been already done. It began in the early-mid 90's.

The ones that are really hurt are the local B&M's. They are so regulated and taxed.

It discourages "new" people who might consider taking up a pipe. It discourages "cellaring" and the availability of a wide diversity of blends.

This is just "piling on"...
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kilted1
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:21 pm

Troll wrote:
I realize this is a useless post. However, I think an unified effort could be made to aid our North country brothers. I know we (YANKS) have our own unfair tax problems, but nothing like what confronts the Albertans. I'm quite unfamiliar with things like international duties, taxes, etc. Perhaps this is just another dumb pipe dream.

IIRC Our Canadian brothers were helpful during Prohibition in assisting 'entrepreneurs' get whiskey to us, time to return the favor cheers

I think I know a 'candle maker' or two in Canada in short supply, perhaps a 'candle maker' or two in the USA can help Basketball
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:28 pm

Here's a practical example:

Taxes on 200 grams of pipe before $54.15

Now add... $23.00 in new tax and it is: $77.15

whether it is Walnut or Haddo's Delight it is $77.15 (in taxes) now add the cost of the tobacco to the B&M and his profit...
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kilted1
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:30 pm

Slow Puffs wrote:
Here's a practical example:

Taxes on 200 grams of pipe before $54.15

Now add... $27.00 in new tax and it is: $81.15

whether it is Walnut or Haddo's Delight it is $81.15 (in taxes) now add the cost of the tobacco to the B&M and his profit...

OMG and what 'services' do you get in exchange for those taxes? Is the tax paying for a memorial park bench somewhere like it would be here?
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Doc Manhattan

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:50 pm

kilted1 wrote:
IIRC Our Canadian brothers were helpful during Prohibition in assisting 'entrepreneurs' get whiskey to us, time to return the favor cheers

I think I know a 'candle maker' or two in Canada in short supply, perhaps a 'candle maker' or two in the USA can help Basketball
I was thinking the same thing... maybe we could send our Canadian Brothers some "fragile glass jars," and pack them in an environmentally-friendly, 100% natural "packing material".

If you claimed your religion was Santerķa, would the PC Canadian government let you have tobacco tax-free "for religious purposes"?
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:53 pm

Well.

In terms of taxes, prices are insanely high here.

The plus side, though, is that our border is very permeable...I have had shipments come through labeled exactly as to what the contents are, and have been duty free.

I think so long as you don't have a package coming through every couple of days, you're OK. Because when yo travel from the U.S. through customs, you can declare your tobacco (so long as you have a very small amount!) and you might not get taxed.

The unfortunate thing though, is even though we can get stuff from the U.S., because our dollar is so weak currently, it's very hard to make frequent/large purchases. That's for me anyhow, it could be different for the other members.

My point is that it isn't actually a pipe dream. It certainly rests in a grey area in terms of legality, but it isn't a pipe dream.

As for that video, it can be found on the CTV website I believe, in the little player thing off to the right of the screen.

Also, I'm with Tweed on this one. Perhaps, if anything, this has encouraged me to concentrate my efforts on spending money at Chris's shop, instead of online. I mean, yes, I enjoy trying new blends, and it's great fun receiving packages in the mail and trying them out. I think I will continue to make those purchases, probably in bulk, for cellaring, but I think the average purchase I make, unless it's to try something new that's tinned, will be made at Burlington. It's not easy to spend that kind of money, but it makes me feel good to support local business...and, as was said, Chris has some phenomenal blends that I love smoking.

...or we could all start smoking cigarettes, it would appear they are cheaper now! lol!
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:13 pm

The intentions of sending tobacco to friends up here is very warming. However, we do have, and all international customers have, a friendly etailer in the USA who is very helpful. He is our honorary "Monarch".
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HistoryMajor

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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:17 pm

Yes, Puffs is quite right about that.

Here's the letter I sent to my representative in the legislature. Cool

Quote :
Dear Ms. Evans,

I am writing this because I am hurt, astonished and appalled that my government would be so foolish. I mean, I can't complain that much; I've only been around for twenty years, and have seen none of the major problems that previous Alberta governments have had to deal with. However, what I see now is an absolutely obscene mismanagement of this province's finances.

And the sad part is you, not our government Ms. Evans, you, have decided to target a specific group of people to finance your errors. And so, you decided to pick smokers - the majority of whom have no political voice, no lobby groups, and no organization. Whether you have caved to pressures of lobby groups, or simply came up with this on your own, I really don't want to know. But I do want you to know that I am ashamed, and deeply disheartened that my representative would be so ambivalent, and so ignorant of the desires of society.

I don't need to harken back to legislation like smoking bans, when over 60% of the Canadian population were opposed, and I don't need to repeat what I have already told you about the increase in criminal activities. Those are irrelevant...you can always spend more of our money on fighting them, right?

What I do need to make very, very clear to you, is that you have decided to place a tax on the smallest cohort of the smoking population; pipe smokers. Pipe smoking has very few of the same health effects as cigarette smoking. Pipe smokers do not inhale, and pipe tobacco is unprocessed - there are no preservatives, the loose pipe tobacco one can buy goes not even contain the food grade preservative propylene glycol. They have a minor casing or topping, which is light flavour added, and that is it. When placed in a pipe and burned, filters can be added to greatly reduce tars and other acids produced.

The point, though, is that none of the rhetoric about health can justify this. Governments complain about how much smokers cost the health care system. What that rhetoric forgets is that even in 1993/94, when federal excise taxes were dropped drastically to fight smuggling (it worked, by the way) governments were still recovering all of the government-funded costs associated with smoking. No, I am afraid that at this point, there is no justification.

Pipe smokers do not quit because of taxes, because pipe smokers do not smoke for the nicotine. In the same way that one drinks wine, bourbon, or scotch; not in the way that an alcoholic guzzles down Smirnoff, that is how pipe smokers enjoy their libation. Therefore, pipe smokers do not quit because of tax increases. We will continue to spend what we can, continue to enjoy what little we have. Nor will Big Tobacco be hurt. You have taxed such a small percentage of annual sales that it will go unnoticed.

Health consequences are nearly irrelevant. You will not hurt Big Tobacco. People are not going to quit.

So what was the point of this, Ms. Evans? You have decided to cover your mistakes by taxing a voiceless, low income population. You have taxed a product that is enjoyed for its subtle qualities, not for its stimulating nature. You have taxed a product that is by and large used by an older, often retired population, who have trouble enough as it is affording to live in this province. You have betrayed the very ideals of a Conservative government.

I don't need Mr. Hagen, or any other advocates, nor government representatives to tell me what to do with my life. And I'm not sure why all of you think it is necessary to tell me how to live. I don't know where that ideology came from, where somehow, government representatives know what's best for their constituents.

This is a cash grab to cover your mistakes. There is no other way to justify this. Indeed, if your government is following Keynesian economic policy, it will fail on an epic scale; you do not raise taxes in a recession. Perhaps some MLAs could use some post-secondary education. It's a darn simple thing, and I don't know why representatives insist on doing it wrong.

Maybe I'll have to switch to cigarettes...they're cheaper. I can only hope that somehow my medical bills will take back what I've had taken from me by yourself.

Furthermore, you aren't going to hear about it. You are going to get away with this. And I am deeply ashamed that you represent my constituency. You should be ashamed as well.

All the best.

Tyler Dawson
P.S. Naturally, if there is any way of reversing or reforming this legislation, I would be more than happy to schedule a meeting with yourself, or any committees in the future that need an outside voice on the matter.
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kilted1
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:28 pm

cheers cheers cheers BRAVO HM Very well done young man!!! cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:34 pm

Damn good letter there HistoryMajor, I wish you folks luck with it all.
Let this be a lesson to those of us here in the U.S. of A. to write to those in charge, make the phone calls send that email, make some noise.
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