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 Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it

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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:07 pm

hi all i had some thing happen to me to day that just really tick me off my 94 grandpa lives in a apartments for older folks and they have a bible study class today and there is one older lady that i go and get smokes for she cant go get them so i get them for her i stoped and pick some up be for going to pick up my grandpa i get to the apartments and go in and bible study is over and all the older ladys and the preacher that does the bible study are siting at the table talking i walk in and give the old lady her smokes i got for her and out of the preachers mouth he said are you saling drugs you know smoking a sin and some of the other lady where saying that it was a sin but out of respect for my grandpa i did not say a word but lord i was hot as hell about and then my grandpa asked the preacher to go out and eat with us and then the preacher brings up my grandma that past away a year ago today and kinda up sets my grandpa about it what would you do if this happen to you
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Justpipes
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Location : Randolph County, NC If you don't know, you wouldn't understand.
Registration date : 2007-12-17

PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:22 pm

I'd probably load up a bowl and light or put a big ole dip of snuff in my mouth! Laughing

Seriously, that is a misconception by many christians. Smoking or tobacco use is not the sin, allowing it to control your life is the sin, or doing it in front of someone else that may stumble because of it.
You did the right thing by holding your tongue Robert. Now I don't know what was brought up about your grandma but depending on what it was, if it upset your grandpa you might have been justified in saying something to the preacher about it.

Keep bringing the older lady her cigarettes, as long as she is not dying of cancer or something, the act of kindness is probably is a huge blessing to her!
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:28 pm

yeah it is the older lady i bring the smokes to she smokes out side in all kind of weather she is a tuff old lady she has had a tuff life so i do enjoy doing that for her it make her happy
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shootist51



Location : Indianapolis, Indiana
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:36 pm

Just so you know, I hold the record in Indiana for distance in pitching priests off of balconies. The result of an unfortunate choice of words on his part when my ex-wife sought to have our 10 yr old marriage annulled so she could re-marry her live in boyfriend in the church.

I am often reminded of the story of the young man smoking on a street corner who is approached by a man of the cloth and informed that smoking is bad for his health. He replies that his grandfather lived to be 87 years old. The preacher asks,"Was he a smoker?' "No", replies the young man."but he knew enough to mind his own damn business."
shootist51
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:41 pm

shootist51 wrote:
Just so you know, I hold the record in Indiana for distance in pitching priests off of balconies. The result of an unfortunate choice of words on his part when my ex-wife sought to have our 10 yr old marriage annulled so she could re-marry her live in boyfriend in the church.

I am often reminded of the story of the young man smoking on a street corner who is approached by a man of the cloth and informed that smoking is bad for his health. He replies that his grandfather lived to be 87 years old. The preacher asks,"Was he a smoker?' "No", replies the young man."but he knew enough to mind his own damn business."
shootist51

today i was about ready to set a new record in nebraska for pitching a preacher lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:47 pm

I have attended churches in the past where this was an issue, the more "legalistic" the more bothered they were by it. They saw anyone who smoked as "destroying the temple" of the Holy Spirit (an individuals body) as described in the new testament. They held the same views toward drinking alchohol too. Funny thing was they didnt seem to realize that overeating could be worse.
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 2:53 pm

EJinVA wrote:
I have attended churches in the past where this was an issue, the more "legalistic" the more bothered they were by it. They saw anyone who smoked as "destroying the temple" of the Holy Spirit (an individuals body) as described in the new testament. They held the same views toward drinking alchohol too. Funny thing was they didnt seem to realize that overeating could be worse.

yeah it just shock the heck out of me when he said it and then my redheaded temper started going up
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Terry292

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Registration date : 2009-04-14

PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:03 pm

Smoking most definitely is not a sin; living others' lives for them most assuredly is.

I'm the only smoker I know of in the church we attend. There's this one woman, who, every time she sees me standing over by the car with my pipe going, says, "Normally, I hate smoke, but, Terry, that pipe smells so good!"
It never fails, she always says it. I, also, never fail to thank her for her kind comments.

Robert, you just keep on keepin' on. That old lady has lived a long life; she deserves a little respect from someone. You keep giving it to her.
Terry
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:09 pm

Terry292 wrote:
Smoking most definitely is not a sin; living others' lives for them most assuredly is.

I'm the only smoker I know of in the church we attend. There's this one woman, who, every time she sees me standing over by the car with my pipe going, says, "Normally, I hate smoke, but, Terry, that pipe smells so good!"
It never fails, she always says it. I, also, never fail to thank her for her kind comments.

Robert, you just keep on keepin' on. That old lady has lived a long life; she deserves a little respect from someone. You keep giving it to her.
Terry
i will terry i get a real kick out of her she will go out and smoke in snow and -20 temps she is one tuff gal
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jmallen5

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Location : Oklahoma
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:12 pm

Ask him to show you the scripture referring to smoking or if he is presuming to know the mind of God
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:18 pm

jmallen5 wrote:
Ask him to show you the scripture referring to smoking or if he is presuming to know the mind of God


yeah if my grandpa was not there i would have jumped all over him about it but out of respect for my grandpa i did not say any thing as much as i want to jump all over him about what he said
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Number 6

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Age : 43
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:26 pm

I'm not religious, but I spent sixteen years in religious schools. So, take this for what it's worth.
The sin argument hinges on whether one's body belongs to himself or to God. From the Christian point of view, there is no real wiggle room here; God created us for his purposes, and maintains deed and title to our bodies and souls. Free will does not change that. We can choose to act as though God doesn't own us, or as though we owe God nothing, but that doesn't affect the reality of his ownership of us.
So, the question then becomes what sort of wiggle room we have. One can make a logically consistent argument that to smoke is to damage the body God has given us. Of course, the same argument would require us to recognize eating unhealthy foods and failing to exercise daily as sins.
The counter argument is that God never prohibited smoking, and never had much to say about maintaining the body's health (although the Jewish dietary restrictions did have everything to do with avoiding food poisoning, parasites, and other maladies that can come from eating poorly). Given God's tendency to lay down all sorts of rules about everything, it would be hard to call that an accidental oversight, especially if one wants to hang on to ideas like omniscience and omnipotence.

Personally, I reject the concept of sin, at least as it relates to a deity, as being meaningful or useful. But one can make a case either way and stay within the bounds of Christianity.
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Buck

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Registration date : 2008-12-17

PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:28 pm

robertw1249 wrote:
yeah it is the older lady i bring the smokes to she smokes out side in all kind of weather she is a tuff old lady she has had a tuff life so i do enjoy doing that for her it make her happy

In my view this is the ultimate forum of respect for the lady as your elder to continue
to let her control her life her way.

The brain dead minister can go fish with a bent rusty empty hook! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:33 pm

Doc Manhattan mentioned this verse awhile back in a similar discussion (about Winslows childhood sunday school teacher):
Genesis 1:12 (King James Version)
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

You could quote this to that preacher next time you see him.
(bold and underlining mine)
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:35 pm

Number 6 wrote:
I'm not religious, but I spent sixteen years in religious schools. So, take this for what it's worth.
The sin argument hinges on whether one's body belongs to himself or to God. From the Christian point of view, there is no real wiggle room here; God created us for his purposes, and maintains deed and title to our bodies and souls. Free will does not change that. We can choose to act as though God doesn't own us, or as though we owe God nothing, but that doesn't affect the reality of his ownership of us.
So, the question then becomes what sort of wiggle room we have. One can make a logically consistent argument that to smoke is to damage the body God has given us. Of course, the same argument would require us to recognize eating unhealthy foods and failing to exercise daily as sins.
The counter argument is that God never prohibited smoking, and never had much to say about maintaining the body's health (although the Jewish dietary restrictions did have everything to do with avoiding food poisoning, parasites, and other maladies that can come from eating poorly). Given God's tendency to lay down all sorts of rules about everything, it would be hard to call that an accidental oversight, especially if one wants to hang on to ideas like omniscience and omnipotence.

Personally, I reject the concept of sin, at least as it relates to a deity, as being meaningful or useful. But one can make a case either way and stay within the bounds of Christianity.

yeah thats true i have been on other pipe fourms that had preachers that smoked pipes so it just depends on the way each preacher feels about tobacco
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robertw1249

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Age : 48
Location : norfolk ne
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:37 pm

Buck wrote:
robertw1249 wrote:
yeah it is the older lady i bring the smokes to she smokes out side in all kind of weather she is a tuff old lady she has had a tuff life so i do enjoy doing that for her it make her happy

In my view this is the ultimate forum of respect for the lady as your elder to continue
to let her control her life her way.

The brain dead minister can go fish with a bent rusty empty hook! Rolling Eyes

i will keep buying smoke for her has long as she want me to
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HoosierPuffer

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PostSubject: smoking   Thu May 28, 2009 3:38 pm

Hi, fellas, as an elder in my congregation, I can definitely address this question.

For those not in the know, an elder is a position equivalent to the pastor in our circles, yet the pastor is the chief elder.

Here is what God clearly lays out as sin:


  1. Having something in your life that comes before God.Ex 20:3
  2. Serving a master other than The Master. Matt 6:24
  3. Abusing your body (this is where it is grey - some smoking doesn't hurt you, but a lot does) 1 Cor 6:18-20
  4. Knowingly doing that which causes the weaker brother to stumble. Rom 14:19-21
  5. Not remaining in control of your body, or letting something other than the Holy Spirit control you.
  6. Disobeying your earthly authorities (obviously there are some exceptions here, but we don't have time for that rabbit trail)


Now, in Acts 10, Jesus demonstrates to Peter how the entire ceremonial law of the old testament had been removed after having been fulfilled by Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Thus, all dietary restrictions were removed and Peter was commanded to eat pigs, etc. (This is very important as non-Christians often often misrepresent the old testament to try and show Christians as legalistic / intollerant, etc.)

So, Jesus Christ Himself removed restrictions on all substances.

This is profoundly freeing in our Christian liberty, which far surpasses the restricted liberties of other major religions. (Think of Hinduism with its dietary restrictions, Islam with theirs, Judaism with theirs, etc)

It is the use of substances and our motivations for using them that becomes the core issue. This is much more difficult. When given this kind of freedom, we then have a much higher standard to live up to - good motives and intentions, coupled with personal responsibility for those decisions.

This can really be applied to any substance. Is morphine wrong? No, but how it is used and why I'm using it can be.

In my life, this is played out by smoking my pipe in circumstances that will not cause me to offend my weaker brother who may struggle with the use of tobacco. It means I don't ever let it control me, so I do it only occasionally. It means the hobby is trivial enough to me that I could leave it with no struggle should it cause others around me to be concerned.

Charles Spurgeon was a cigar smoker. When asked to officially endorse one brand, he got a lot of feedback that those in his congregation would see it as him pushing the hobby and potentially abuse themselves. He walked away from it.

C.S. Lewis also smoked a pipe.

The focus of Christianity is on the heart and spirit. If those are properly set, you will live a life of extreme freedom in Christ, for not only will you be free of vices and addictions, but you will be empowered beyond anything you can ever imagine to succeed. You will no longer be limited by your individual strength!
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:40 pm

Two Words: Burnt Offering

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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erratum

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Location : Kansas City
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 3:50 pm

I'm certain they'll tell me when I'm dead.


I'll let you know Very Happy
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Number 6

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Age : 43
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 4:01 pm

EJinVA- That argument can blow up on your face. After all, not every plant and herb is good for us (although within the theist worldview, it may well serve a good purpose that has nothing to do with us). Hemlock and poison ivy come right to mind.
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TallSmoke

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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 4:22 pm

Some good answers here. My Presbyterian Pastor smokes a pipe as well as about half the men in our church. Just like alcohol the tobacco leaf is a blessing from God and should be used wisely and in moderation.
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Ol'Dawg

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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 4:30 pm

shootist51 wrote:

I am often reminded of the story of the young man smoking on a street corner who is approached by a man of the cloth and informed that smoking is bad for his health. He replies that his grandfather lived to be 87 years old. The preacher asks,"Was he a smoker?' "No", replies the young man."but he knew enough to mind his own damn business."
shootist51

One of my favorite stories along the same line occurred when a fellow was digging worms for fishing on a Sunday morning when a lady passed by and said "Sir, don't you realize this is the Lord's day?" He replied "No, I was too busy minding my own business." I use the reply when I've had enough of someone obnoxiously trying to tell me how to live my life.

Jim
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HoosierPuffer

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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 4:33 pm

Number 6 wrote:
EJinVA- That argument can blow up on your face. After all, not every plant and herb is good for us (although within the theist worldview, it may well serve a good purpose that has nothing to do with us). Hemlock and poison ivy come right to mind.

Good for us in some respects, bad for us in others. Depends on why and how they're used Wink But the substance isn't the issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 4:36 pm

Ol'Dawg wrote:
shootist51 wrote:

I am often reminded of the story of the young man smoking on a street corner who is approached by a man of the cloth and informed that smoking is bad for his health. He replies that his grandfather lived to be 87 years old. The preacher asks,"Was he a smoker?' "No", replies the young man."but he knew enough to mind his own damn business."
shootist51

One of my favorite stories along the same line occurred when a fellow was digging worms for fishing on a Sunday morning when a lady passed by and said "Sir, don't you realize this is the Lord's day?" He replied "No, I was too busy minding my own business." I use the reply when I've had enough of someone obnoxiously trying to tell me how to live my life.

Jim

Jim, Your the wisest feller on this forum!
I just love your bits of wisdom spread with humor.
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Tennessee Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Is smoking a sin whats you thoughts on it   Thu May 28, 2009 4:39 pm

Interesting topic to me as I have members of my family who are convinced that I am going to hell for smoking. It will be hotter than normal for me according to some of them because I also have been known to have a drink as well and sometime even simultaneously. I try to live a Christian life and be a good example. Sometimes though because of all the legalism in today's churches it is extremley difficult to meet their standards. Being a Christian I don't even try because as I understand it the price paid on the cross was sufficient for whatever sins this old man has committed. I'll put my faith in that, not some gluttonous overweight preacher who has to know that eating to the point of morbid obesity is every bit as sinful as smoking a bowl of tobacco. But let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I guess we'll find out judgment day, heh? Smile
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