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Vito

Number of posts: 823 Location: Earth Tobacco: ...is for smoking. Registration date: 2007-12-10
 | Subject: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:34 am | |
| Idiots. We're surrounded by idiots. The guy's blog is here: http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/ Original full-length recording is here: http://imgs.xkcd.com/verizon_billing.mp3 At then end, when she says, "It's obviously a difference of opinion." ...there you have it. People don't recognize the principle that "What you say is supposed to mean something." In this case (Verizon math), "cents" means "dollars". It's just a difference of opinion. OMFG! Maybe we're not really all the same species. That could explain it. Maybe the people who think it's only a matter of opinion whether $1 = 1˘ are really the mutants, and they'll breed themselves out of existence. Alas, it seems more likely that they're multiplying.  |
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jhuggett BoB's Pioneer & Founding Father

Number of posts: 5232 Age: 41 Location: Olympia, WA Tobacco: Davidoff Flake Medallions, Reiner Long Golden Flake Pipe: Sara Eltang Christmas Pipes 11 and 18 of 30 Registration date: 2007-12-09
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:35 am | |
| Man do I understand his frustration!!! I ended up dropping Verizon after 8 years because of a series of phone calls involving two separate issues. The first issue took me 6 calls and I was still unable to resolve the other took me 14 calls and that was resolved thankfully. It was still enough to make me switch.
I can't believe how calm he was on that. _________________ Jason
"Freedom, Security, Convenience: Choose Two" "For me, I will take freedom over security and I will take security over convenience." ~ Dan Geer
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Vito

Number of posts: 823 Location: Earth Tobacco: ...is for smoking. Registration date: 2007-12-10
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:24 am | |
| | jhuggett wrote: | | ...I can't believe how calm he was on that. | Right...and the video is the edited version. In the full-length version, it's even worse. I'd have had a very hard time keeping cool. I'm definitely not wired to accommodate that degree of stupidity.
I don't think it's actually a math problem. I mean, it shows up as a math problem, but it's really a thinking problem. The boneheads at Verizon are skipping a step (converting cents to dollars), and they don't realize it. They're attaching the wrong units to the answer.
As it turned out, the real rate is .002 dollars per kB. They're billing it correctly, but they're not selling it correctly. They repeatedly quote "point zero zero two cents per kilobyte", which would mean they should bill at $.00002/kB.
The problem is that they never learned dimensional analysis. I got it in science, not in math. In the real world, numbers are usually measurements of something, and you have to say what the something is:
"How far is it to Xanadu?" "Twelve." "Twelve? Twelve what? Miles? Kilometers? Cubits? Leagues? Angstroms?" "Just twelve. It doesn't matter. It's just opinion anyway." "Grrrrr..." That's the problem with using calculators. They don't have units. They just crunch numbers, and if you don't know what the numbers represent, you're boned. If they had written it down on paper and kept the units intact, they'd have seen their mistake:
.002 cents/kB x 35893 kB = .002 x 35893 (cents/kb x kb) = 71.786 cents There aren't any dollars involved anywhere in the calculation, so there can't be any dollars involved in the final answer. My physics profs used to require us to carry the units all the way through the calculation, because it's a check on your final answer. If you're looking for dollars in the answer, you have to convert to dollars somewhere along the way.
Unless you're a Verizon supervisor.
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SmokeyTweed

Number of posts: 714 Age: 30 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Tobacco: Sweet Killarney, dark star, Dunhill 965. Pipe: Savinelli Autograph 98', Lorenzetti Borgo freehand,Peterson st.pats XL15 Registration date: 2008-10-13
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:39 am | |
| Vito, the real problem is that they don't make kids do math problems anymore without calculators. I believe i was in the last generation that never used calculators until grade 12 and then they FORCED me to buy a Texas Instruments 83 calculator. I would have loved to invest in TI stock when they landed all of N.American schools contracts for forced graphic calculators. At $84 dollars a pop you would need a very large calculator to compute that profit margin!  |
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Vito

Number of posts: 823 Location: Earth Tobacco: ...is for smoking. Registration date: 2007-12-10
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LL
Number of posts: 2000 Location: Hoth (a.k.a. Bowman, ND) Tobacco: Strong Pipe: Briar Registration date: 2007-12-29
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:34 pm | |
| A couple generations ago, Issac Asimov wrote a short story titled, "A Feeling of Power" that used the rediscovery of mathematics as its plot. How in the far future humans had utterly forgotten any and all mathematical concepts---computers ran the world's infrastructure seamlessly without interference---until a minor technician realized if you assigned symbols to quantities and experimented sufficiently, rules and patterns emerged that exactly matched the output of The Computers. (gasp!)
There was a twist at the end I won't divulge in case someone wants to read it, but the historical significance lies more in the marketing of the story at the time: Even though Asimov was a respected writer, magazine editors didn't want to buy it because they thought Man forgetting mathematics was too preposterous an idea, even for science fiction. |
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puros_bran Nightrider

Number of posts: 9207 Registration date: 2007-12-10
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:59 pm | |
| See what happens when 'relativitism' is the norm... If there is no absolute truth, there is no absolute wrong...its all just a matter of opinion. _________________ "Pacem en Puffing!"
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jhuggett BoB's Pioneer & Founding Father

Number of posts: 5232 Age: 41 Location: Olympia, WA Tobacco: Davidoff Flake Medallions, Reiner Long Golden Flake Pipe: Sara Eltang Christmas Pipes 11 and 18 of 30 Registration date: 2007-12-09
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:04 pm | |
| I thought relativism was what you all called "dating" down south.  _________________ Jason
"Freedom, Security, Convenience: Choose Two" "For me, I will take freedom over security and I will take security over convenience." ~ Dan Geer
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kilted1 Great Scot!

Number of posts: 3514 Age: 51 Location: North Georgia, USA Tobacco: GLP Haddo's Delight, SG 1792, Condor Original Long Cut Pipe: Ardor, Viprati, L'anatra Registration date: 2009-01-11
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Vito

Number of posts: 823 Location: Earth Tobacco: ...is for smoking. Registration date: 2007-12-10
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:44 pm | |
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kilted1 Great Scot!

Number of posts: 3514 Age: 51 Location: North Georgia, USA Tobacco: GLP Haddo's Delight, SG 1792, Condor Original Long Cut Pipe: Ardor, Viprati, L'anatra Registration date: 2009-01-11
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:50 pm | |
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Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:32 am | |
| I have a math degree, and made it to my senior year without purchasing one. THen I took Linear Algebra which was a requirement for the class because it handled matrices.
I tried to barter with the professor, explaining I was pretty good at this math stuff, but to no avail, to be in the class I needed a TI-85.
Public education is what made TI-85, most math oriented people prefer Casio or HP (the prior for me, due to their capacity to handle fractions). Similarly, the US government made Beretta a popular firearm; I've never owned one that works. |
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Number 6

Number of posts: 60 Age: 38 Tobacco: Tending towards flakes these days. G&H Dark Flake, and McConnell's Folded are favorites. Pipe: Petes, Stanwells, Kaywoodies, and assorted others. Registration date: 2009-01-26
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:37 am | |
| Using dimensional analysis on this problem is akin to nuking a mosquito. It'll get the job done, but there's a simpler solution. Working with decimal places is, IIRC, a fourth or fifth grade requirement. Not only that, but converting from cents (the word itself means hundredth) to dollars and back is a daily occurrence. Any adult who can't grasp the concept that cents=/= dollars is, essentially, subliterate. I say this as a guy who is anything but good at math. |
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Vito

Number of posts: 823 Location: Earth Tobacco: ...is for smoking. Registration date: 2007-12-10
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Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Verizon Math Fail Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:20 am | |
| Here is how the dude paid them:  |
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