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 So This is Where You All Been Hiding!

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:39 pm

Meerorbriar wrote:
many women that want to learn about the hobby are a little intimidated by what others will think inside the hobby. We try to bring them into a safe comfortable environment to ensure them they're not alone

...most women aren't as bold as me.




Is the presence of men intimidating in itself, jeopardizing a "safe, comfortable environment", or is this an instance of a subset of women who aren't "bold" being intimidated by men?
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Accipeter

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Location : Newport Beach, California
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:07 pm

Hiya Meer! Always nice to see another SOB here!! Or would that be LOB...
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regor



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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:12 am

I can't speak for others but I am happy as can be that you all are here!!! I bet a few are as well. cyclops sunny
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:46 am

regor wrote:
I can't speak for others but I am happy as can be that you all are here!!! I bet a few are as well. cyclops sunny

That makes two of us Regor!

Ladies are always welcome as far as I am concerned!
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Meerorbriar

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:20 pm

10-96 wrote:
Meerorbriar wrote:
many women that want to learn about the hobby are a little intimidated by what others will think inside the hobby. We try to bring them into a safe comfortable environment to ensure them they're not alone

...most women aren't as bold as me.




Is the presence of men intimidating in itself, jeopardizing a "safe, comfortable environment", or is this an instance of a subset of women who aren't "bold" being intimidated by men?

Some of the women are afraid that people will perceive their passion for pipes odd cyclops and also know there are some male pipe smokers that might be too interested in them Shocked I love you or harrassing to women in the hobby. Also in the group we discuss other hobbies and interests that woman are more likely to share as well as "girl talk" This builds a family bond between us. This extra support may get them to the point when they can smoke their pipes in the open (or wherever the smoke nazis allow) and come visit some of the great shows and clubs this hobby has to offer. Hope that makes more sense.

Happy puffin'
Meer
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Meerorbriar

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:27 pm

Accipeter wrote:
Hiya Meer! Always nice to see another SOB here!! Or would that be LOB...

Hi Accipeter it's always great to meet other Ladies of the Briar! So what brought you into the hobby? (I'm always curious to find out what has drawn other women to the gentle art of pipe smoking)

Happy puffin'
Meer
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:53 pm

Meerorbriar wrote:
We try to bring them into a safe comfortable environment.... Some of the women are afraid that people will perceive their passion for pipes odd and also know there are some male pipe smokers that might be too interested in them or harrassing to women

So the presence of men makes the environment uncomfortable and unsafe, and the sole justification for discriminating against men is to prejudge them as sexually-obsessed and harassing to women?
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Meerorbriar

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:26 am

10-96 wrote:
Meerorbriar wrote:
We try to bring them into a safe comfortable environment.... Some of the women are afraid that people will perceive their passion for pipes odd and also know there are some male pipe smokers that might be too interested in them or harrassing to women

So the presence of men makes the environment uncomfortable and unsafe, and the sole justification for discriminating against men is to prejudge them as sexually-obsessed and harassing to women?

It sounds like it doesn't make a lot of sense to you, but our ladies do appreciate it. Sometimes women feel more comfortable talking about things with other women, and we provide that place. It's a "Birds of a feather flock together" thing. Most of the first time posts we get are "Thank God I found you, I thought I was the only one!" There are quite a few women (over 100 that I know of because of LotB) in the hobby and many more who want to learn and point blank yes they are afraid or uncomfortable to discuss it with men - at least in the beginning. So am I a female chauvinist pig? LOL! not really- If a person wants to learn more about the hobby they'll find a way, and I'm proud to be able to help, regardless of the gender, race, creed....

Happy puffin'
Meer
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:57 am

Crap. I just got around to reading this thread, for whatever reason I seldom read the 'Welcome Aboard'/'What are you smoking' run up the post count threads. When I saw the flower in another post the light finally went off. MEER.

When my stapdad speaks of Stokers 2 names always come up Meer and Yarnie. Smile Smile
Welcome Aboard!!!!!!!!!!!
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Meerorbriar

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:14 am

puros_bran wrote:
Crap. I just got around to reading this thread, for whatever reason I seldom read the 'Welcome Aboard'/'What are you smoking' run up the post count threads. When I saw the flower in another post the light finally went off. MEER.

When my stapdad speaks of Stokers 2 names always come up Meer and Yarnie. Smile Smile
Welcome Aboard!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, PB, I'm glad I was led here! BTW, your step-dad?

Happy puffin'
Meer
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:01 am

Meerorbriar wrote:
It sounds like it doesn't make a lot of sense to you, but our ladies do appreciate it. Sometimes women feel more comfortable talking about things with other women, and we provide that place. It's a "Birds of a feather flock together" thing. Most of the first time posts we get are "Thank God I found you, I thought I was the only one!" There are quite a few women (over 100 that I know of because of LotB) in the hobby and many more who want to learn and point blank yes they are afraid or uncomfortable to discuss it with men - at least in the beginning. So am I a female chauvinist pig? LOL! not really- If a person wants to learn more about the hobby they'll find a way, and I'm proud to be able to help, regardless of the gender, race, creed....

You have defended your policy pretty reasonably and admirably, but you still cannot justify casting ALL MEN as sexually interested in the women in your group. That would be no different than if I made the claim that women were "always trying to pick up men", which would probably make women angry and justifiably so.

I can see your discrimination policy being a good idea if your group was for survivors of sexual assault. But itís a social clique no different than the one you joined here, and your insinuation that the double-standard is okay because ďmen might try and hit on usĒ is hypocritical. Why donít you just remove the men who are idiots from your club?

If the roles were reversed, and I said I created a men-only group and that we discriminate because the presence of women makes the atmosphere uncomfortable and unsafe, and that ďthere are some females who come on there because they are too interested in men and are trying to pick up menĒ, I would expect every woman in America to come to my house and drag me from my living room to burn me at the stake. Rightfully so, I might add. Most men I know donít sexually degrade women, make sexual advances to ones they do not know, and donít sexually harass women. Apparently you think otherwise. (It might be noted that you've been on this board here for a few weeks, and not one man has made a sexual advance towards you or has sexually harassed you, in fact, they have welcomed you with open arms despite the fact that you have insulted men.)

Would you have a problem with a whites-only group who excluded blacks because they were afraid of a stereotype? Or what about a black-only group who excluded whites because of a stereotype? Or what about a group that excluded Jewish pipe smokers because of a stereotype?

And "birds of a feather flock together" isn't what it says on your website. It says:

Quote :
You will feel comfortable at LOTB. No worries about being ridiculed or called names. No worries about receiving unwanted solicitation. We do not allow men to join LOTB so please do not request membership if you are a male. All membership requests are carefully screened and we will deny those that we feel are inappropriate for our club. Those few that happen to get past our screening will eventually be found out and banned.

If I created a club like yours banning women, using that exact same language, I would be on the front page of USA Today and FoxNews as the biggest sexist in the history of sexists.
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Carlos
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:33 am

10-96, it's called "women's prerogative".


This is supposed to be a "Welcome" forum. You might wish to start a thread for continued discussion of board differences in another forum.

_________________


"Never turn your back on a Breen".
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:13 am

10-96 wrote:


You have defended your policy pretty reasonably and admirably, but you still cannot justify casting ALL MEN as sexually interested in the women in your group. That would be no different than if I made the claim that women were "always trying to pick up men", which would probably make women angry and justifiably so.

Would you have a problem with a whites-only group who excluded blacks because they were afraid of a stereotype? Or what about a black-only group who excluded whites because of a stereotype? Or what about a group that excluded Jewish pipe smokers because of a stereotype?

And "birds of a feather flock together" isn't what it says on your website. It says:

Quote :
You will feel comfortable at LOTB. No worries about being ridiculed or called names. No worries about receiving unwanted solicitation. We do not allow men to join LOTB so please do not request membership if you are a male. All membership requests are carefully screened and we will deny those that we feel are inappropriate for our club. Those few that happen to get past our screening will eventually be found out and banned.

If I created a club like yours banning women, using that exact same language, I would be on the front page of USA Today and FoxNews as the biggest sexist in the history of sexists.

10-96,

Give it a rest man! There are plenty of exclusive clubs in every facet of life........hello!!!..........It is called freedom in America! And, a good majority of those exclusive clubs are for men. If you don't want to be a part of one that is your right as American and just as freely you have the right to start and/or be part of some exclusive organization.

Meer, you are providing a great service by having a venue that the better half of our species can be introduced into our great passion of the pipe without being subjected to the dumbassedness that men have a tendency to display, until they feel comfortable mingling and sharing the hobby with men.

Forgive me Meer for displaying my chauvinist side but I rather think that a lady smoking a pipe is quite sexy and thoroughly enjoy the company of one smoking a pipe.



Hopefully some of the other ladies from the LoTB will be gracious enough to bless us with their company over here! I believe that I can honestly speak for most everyone here in saying that they will be more than welcome!


Keep up the good work Meer, and please, by all means invite some of your friends over!

Mark
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:31 am

10-96: Chill Bro its her house let her run it.

JP: Quit sucking up Very Happy

Meer: he went by the handle of WestonDin. I think he lurked more than he posted,but he loved the place. I had a Stokers Bosi he had bought.
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:55 am

puros_bran wrote:
JP: Quit sucking up Very Happy

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:54 am

Justpipes wrote:

It is called freedom in America! And, a good majority of those exclusive clubs are for men. If you don't want to be a part of one that is your right as American and just as freely you have the right to start and/or be part of some exclusive organization.

Meer, you are providing a great service by having a venue that the better half of our species can be introduced into our great passion of the pipe without being subjected to the dumbassedness that men have a tendency to display, until they feel comfortable mingling and sharing the hobby with men.

Forgive me Meer for displaying my chauvinist side but I rather think that a lady smoking a pipe is quite sexy and thoroughly enjoy the company of one smoking a pipe.



You call men "dumbassed" for saying the exact thing that you say in the very next sentence. Perfect! I hope she doesn't go running away screaming now that you behaved like all those men they're afraid of.

Or maybe there's a difference in you saying she's sexy here, as opposed to over there. Here it's okay, but over there you get "found out and banned". I understand!! Now I'm getting with the program!
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Meerorbriar

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:09 pm

OK - let's go through your last post issue by issue

Quote :
You have defended your policy pretty reasonably and admirably, but you still cannot justify casting ALL MEN as sexually interested in the women in your group.
That would be no different than if I made the claim that women were
"always trying to pick up men", which would probably make women angry
and justifiably so.

If you look at my earlier post this is the wording used in relation to being sexually interested


Quote :
Some of the women are afraid that people will perceive their passion for pipes odd and also know there are some male pipe smokers that might be too interested in them or harrassing to women in the hobby.

Please note the use of the word some in the quote above.

[quote]I can see your discrimination policy being a good idea if your group
was for survivors of sexual assault.[/quote}

Some of our members are survivors, they have the ability to let us know or not, but if they choose to share that in our group because they feel safe or comfortable, that is their prerogative


Quote :
But itís a social clique no different than the one you joined here, and your insinuation that the
double-standard is okay because ďmen might try and hit on usĒ is
hypocritical. Why donít you just remove the men who are idiots from
your club?
and

Quote :
Most men I know donít sexually degrade women, make sexual advances to
ones they do not know, and donít sexually harass women. Apparently you
think otherwise.


This is not only a question of being "hit on" it is an issue of sexual harrassment. There are some men in our hobby who have a fettish about pipe and/or cigar smoking women. I have met some who have this interest and I appreciate and respect them for their honesty; however, I am not so ultruistic to believe that all with this interest are as forthcoming and as benign as those I've met. If any of the women in the group were to come to harm because they weren't aware of this possibility, I personally would feel remorse if it occurred.

Quote :
(It might be noted that you've been on this board here for a few weeks,
and not one man has made a sexual advance towards you or has sexually
harassed you, in fact, they have welcomed you with open arms despite
the fact that you have insulted men.)

Many of the men here know me from other discussion boards or at shows and have become great friends, I appreciate the mutual respect we've gained from knowing each other and sharing knowledge about this hobby as well as the joking around. As stated above I don't believe all men or even most men would sexually harass women, in fact many would defend a woman if they noticed this behavior.

Also if you feel offended or insulted by my posts, this group give gives you the option to put me on your foes list so you won't be subjected to them again.


Quote :
Would you have a problem with a whites-only group who excluded blacks
because they were afraid of a stereotype? Or what about a black-only
group who excluded whites because of a stereotype? Or what about a
group that excluded Jewish pipe smokers because of a stereotype?

Again, as stated above, this is not a stereotype, it is a minority that exists and some women worry about it. Also this is not a group of women who hate men, many of us discuss our relationships with our husbands or significant others, coworkers,children, etc.

There are groups of people who do exactly what you say because of a stereotype. Our group was formed with the encouragement from many great and kind gentlemen at yahoo ps2 who thought our hobby would benefit from a women's group who would share with other women interested in the gentle art of pipe smoking.


And "birds of a feather flock together" isn't what it says on your website. It says:

Quote :
"You will feel comfortable at LOTB. No worries about being ridiculed or called names. No worries about receiving unwanted solicitation.
We do not allow men to join LOTB so please do not request membership if
you are a male. All membership requests are carefully screened and we
will deny those that we feel are inappropriate for our club. Those few that happen to get past our screening will eventually be found out and banned."
If
I created a club like yours banning women, using that exact same
language, I would be on the front page of USA Today and FoxNews as the
biggest sexist in the history of sexists.

Please note, that I am a co-founder of the group, and due to personal reasons beyond this hobby I am no longer a member of the management of the group. The words stated are those of the current management, and I will be happy to express your concern with them.

I hope our dialog on this issue has been resolved.


Happy puffin'

Meer
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Muleskinner



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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:31 pm

I want to welcome you to the board. I too am a lady pipe smoker who enjoys the hobby along with my husband. We are proud to see you join this BB. Will look forward to your posts.
Lady Muleskinner "Cheryl" and Muleskinner "John"
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Meerorbriar

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:32 pm

puros_bran wrote:
10-96: Chill Bro its her house let her run it.

JP: Quit sucking up Very Happy

Meer: he went by the handle of WestonDin. I think he lurked more than he posted,but he loved the place. I had a Stokers Bosi he had bought.

I'm glad your step-dad enjoyed Stokers. I joined after the deadline for getting the Bosi pipe. At one point Yarnie decided to move the group from yohoo to a forum style similar to this, but several people had problems with logging on and it was off the beaten path and not as easily publicized as a yahoo group. When he gave me the group, we were in that format and losing more participants. I have re-established the group on yahoo, but as yet we haven't been able to rebuild the group to what it was. To be honest, I've been thinking of pulling the plug on the group, We only have a few active participants, and we enjoy talking with each other, maybe in time others will want to join in - or maybe not.

Thanks for sharing about your step-dad, I really appreciate hearing about him.

Happy puffin'
Meer
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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:36 pm

Muleskinner wrote:
I want to welcome you to the board. I too am a lady pipe smoker who enjoys the hobby along with my husband. We are proud to see you join this BB. Will look forward to your posts.
Lady Muleskinner "Cheryl" and Muleskinner "John"

Thanks for the welcome Lady Muleskinner and Muleskinner. I'm sure I'll enjoy reading your posts as well.

Happy puffin'

Meer
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PipeLeisure

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:04 pm

I normally dont post on threads this old but what the he11....MEER WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN...I miss you and yarnie and the rest of the crew Crying or Very sad
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PipeLeisure

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PostSubject: Re: So This is Where You All Been Hiding!   Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:07 pm

Meer if you still have your ears on I just sent you a PM Very Happy
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