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 Dangerous Times.

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Jack Straw

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Age : 34
Location : Brooklyn
Registration date : 2009-08-27

PostSubject: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:17 am

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqktgycAyeF0R8mrqKao1iGAT3dwD9C15KSG2

Cliff's notes: RYO tobacco companies have started remarketing their products as pipe tobacco to get around the huge SCHIP tax. The gov't says they are working on stricter or more specific definitions of each, but who knows what could happen.

Does anyone know if they gave specific rationale for not taxing pipe tobacco with SCHIP? I hope they don't arbitrarily say, "Well let's just tax pipe tobacco too."
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:03 pm

They did SCHIP pipe tobacco, just at a lower rate than the others.

I've wondered how this will affect us also. From where I sit,The RYO'ners basically threw us under the bus with this one. They will use this as an excuse to jack up our taxes.

'We shall all hang together or we will all hang apart'..
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Wet Dottle

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Location : Littleton, CO
Registration date : 2008-02-27

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:35 pm

puros_bran wrote:
From where I sit,The RYO'ners basically threw us under the bus with this one.

Yeap, I saw that comming the day they started making "pipe tobacco". I can't really blame them for looking for the loop hole, but that is going to accelerate what is impending on pipe tobacco. It's just a matter of time. Crying or Very sad
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jlong

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Age : 59
Location : Northeast Wisconsin
Registration date : 2009-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:26 pm

Lets hope the feds define RYO and pipe tobacco by cut and dryness level instead of nailing pipe tobacco across the board.

Retailers could have been a bit more discrete by not stocking the said pipe tobacco in the RYO section.
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:56 pm

jlong wrote:
Lets hope the feds define RYO and pipe tobacco by cut and dryness level instead of nailing pipe tobacco across the board.

I can't see the feds cooperating anywhere when the "evil tobacco" is involved.
Many out there don't make any distiction between Marlboro's and Union Square, if it's tobacco it's "bad". They won't rest till it's outlawed.
Our battle cry should be: "I Will Give Up My Baccy When They Peel it from my Cold Dead Nicotene Stained Hands".
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:03 pm

What we ought to do is vote out every member of George Herbert Walker Bush's party of 'Read my lips, no new taxes' and Barrack Hussien Obama's party of 'I assure you, no one making less than $250K a year will see a tax increase'..

Go on defend him (whichever him you prefer) the fact remains we keep electing liars and claiming its someone elses fault.
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:31 pm

puros_bran wrote:
Go on defend him (whichever him you prefer) the fact remains we keep electing liars and claiming its someone elses fault.

Amen Brother! Yer preachin to the choir now!

Course, if we vote for the one that's not a liar there's no one to vote for.
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jabuhrer

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Location : Denver, CO
Registration date : 2009-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:10 pm

EJinVA wrote:

Course, if we vote for the one that's not a liar there's no one to vote for.

Wasn't that the basis for Wavy Gravy's "Nobody for President" campaign?

Who is going to lower your taxes?

Nobody!

Who will keep all of their campaign promises?

Nobody!

Who is going to look out for the little guy?

Nobody!

Who is qualified to have that much power?

Nobody!

Nobody is perfect! Nobody bakes apple pie better than Mom! Nobody is in Washington right now, working for you!

Nobody for President!

Wink
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Rail Man

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Age : 34
Location : North Dakota
Registration date : 2007-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:41 pm

As stated earlier there is no distinction between cigarettes, RYO, machine made cigars, premium cigars, snuff, chew, and pipe tobacco, it's all tobacco and it's all evil in the minds of statists like Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., and Matthew Myers the president of the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids (and make no mistake about it Myers not only doesn't want tobacco in the hands of kids, which is fine, but he also doesn't want any one of legal age to have it either. In these types of people's minds we are all kids and the government is our parents!). We can't be delusional on this, the solution will simply be to tax pipe tobacco at a much, much, much higher rate! Hell while they're at it they might as well raise taxes on cigars and cigarettes again too! Smokers are evil!

I don't see the RYO manufactures as throwing us pipers under the bus because they were just trying to save their ass. Did the RYOs raise taxes and set the rules? No, it was congress and our President that raised these taxes an outrageous amount! The RYOs are just following one of the rules of taxation; if you want less of something tax it more, more of something tax it less. Pipe tobacco is taxed less so it makes sense they would all of a sudden start making "pipe tobacco." In the news story I read it said the manufacturer of Farmer's Gold, M&R Holdings, cut staff from 40 people to a dozen! This is what happens when you tax things!

And what about this line from the AP article? "The tax implications could be huge. As much as $32 million a month could be lost in taxes if the sudden spike in pipe tobacco is just cigarette tobacco in disguise." They talk as if though the government is entitled to this money, as if they are working to produce it themselves! That's our money! It's not even the "evil" tobacco company's money because those taxes are simply passed on to us! It's our user fee for using a legal product.

Until we either get rid of these statists the continue to vote for tobacco taxes and regulations or change their minds we can expect continued taxation until no one can afford to smoke anything, then it will just be on to the next vice, probably alcohol, McDonald's, and gasoline, which will then be taxed and taxed to fill the tobacco monies void. We better stock up our cellars while we can still afford it.

Remember the floor tax that came with the SCHIP bill? I wonder how long before someone tries to introduce a personal floor tax on tobacco people already own? Ready for ATF agents to pay you a visit to take inventory?
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Sasquatch

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Location : The Garage
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:44 pm

"He never come back from Copperhead Road"
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:56 pm

That always enters my mind when I see guys post up these huge tobacco hordes.

Plus something a lot of guys fail to think about: they could get you on technicalitys too... Ever thought that a 50,100,200, tin celler could be portrayed as a unpermitted,out of zone, non tax paying tobacco dealer?

Any of which could land you in prison, the Tax Evasion charge could land you in prison for a long long long time while the froze and confiscated whatever other assets you may have.

"Can't happen here!"
"Can't happen to me!"

Bull Crap.
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shootist51



Location : Indianapolis, Indiana
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:46 pm

EJinVA wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
Go on defend him (whichever him you prefer) the fact remains we keep electing liars and claiming its someone elses fault.

Amen Brother! Yer preachin to the choir now!

Course, if we vote for the one that's not a liar there's no one to vote for.

I would just take this opportunity to mention that there is at least one other "national" party, the Libertarian, and if we all vote that way it ceases to be "a minor, throw your vote away" party.

It's how the Republican Party was started in the 1800's.

Think about it.
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Sasquatch

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Location : The Garage
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:56 pm

There are certainly rules where I live about how much tobacco I can keep that isn't signed and delivered as having been taxed and sold in Canada, and the limits are small. Luckily the limits on homebrew are rather generous. Very Happy
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Kapnismologist

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Registration date : 2008-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:12 am

If you look at the most recent TTB statistical report, the drop in claimed 'pipe tobacco' vs. claimed 'RYO' tobacco produced as taxable from August last year compared to August this year is astounding:

http://www.ttb.gov/statistics/200908tobacco.pdf

In short:

August 2008: RYO removed taxable = 1,645,638 lbs
August 2009: RYO removed taxable = 660,922 lbs

August 2008: Pipe Tobacco removed taxable = 269,157 lbs
August 2009: Pipe Tobacco removed taxable = 1,727,151 lbs

A decline and a jump that big is not unlikely to escape notice, and it is obvious the two are related to one another. The tax man cometh....
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JohnnyO

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Location : Sacramento, CA
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:47 am

Heh was just going to post this! If they just say screw it and add a $24/pound tax on pipe tobacco we're screwed...

Everyday I feel like I am losing my country...my governator banned all online/mailorder/phone orders of ammunition and we will have to basically register our names an provide fingerprints when buying ammo...

The two things I love are fading fast...although I always knew they would never be banned, just taxed/regulated/limited so bad no one will be able to buy/use said products
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:47 pm

This is troubling indeed.

I applaud the tobacco companies trying to help out our RYO brothers, but they essentially bent us over here. Which is tough, because now if a RYO customer were to consider a pipe as an alternative, there will soon be a higher tax on them.

I imagine we have a couple of months to fill cellars before the next Mass Taxation. What ever happened to no taxation without representation?

Oh wait, were electing these dipshits.
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:59 pm

Hear Hear
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The Janitor

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Age : 33
Location : Erie, PA
Registration date : 2009-03-25

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:33 pm

I for one am not contributing to this. When I buy pipe tobacco, it's for my pipe. I use actual RYO for my cigarettes. One person won't make a difference, but at least I know that nobody can blame me if pipe tobacco gets hit hard.

The Janitor
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 pm

The Janitor wrote:
I for one am not contributing to this. When I buy pipe tobacco, it's for my pipe. I use actual RYO for my cigarettes. One person won't make a difference, but at least I know that nobody can blame me if pipe tobacco gets hit hard.

The Janitor

It's not the users that did it; it's the tobacco industry. But, they tried to do a good thing by trying to keep prices affordable. Just a lapse in thinking of the slippery slope that will ensue.
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CACooper

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Age : 57
Location : Parker, Colorado
Registration date : 2009-07-20

PostSubject: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:02 pm

Greetings all,

Remember, we did vote for "change". And boy, are we getting it! SCHIP, FDA. Ouch. affraid

As always, stock up while you still can. And prepare for $75 - $100+ a pound pipe tobacco (not factoring in state taxes) in the near future. "Hope" I can still afford it.

CACooper
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:11 pm

CACooper wrote:
Greetings all,

Remember, we did vote for "change".

CACooper

You got a mouse in your pocket?
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Centurian 803
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Age : 67
Location : Oak Ridge, TN
Registration date : 2008-09-10

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:11 pm

CACooper wrote:
Greetings all,

Remember, we did vote for "change". And boy, are we getting it! SCHIP, FDA. Ouch. affraid

As always, stock up while you still can. And prepare for $75 - $100+ a pound pipe tobacco (not factoring in state taxes) in the near future. "Hope" I can still afford it.

CACooper

I assume that you are using the editorial we and referring to our fellow citizens. I for one did not vote for change. I heartily concur with your "hope" that we will still be able to afford our lifestyle in the years to come.
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CACooper

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Age : 57
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PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:40 pm

Texas Outlaw wrote:
CACooper wrote:
Greetings all,

Remember, we did vote for "change".

CACooper

You got a mouse in your pocket?

More like a knot in my stomach.

CACooper
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CACooper

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Age : 57
Location : Parker, Colorado
Registration date : 2009-07-20

PostSubject: Re: Dangerous Times.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:47 pm

Centurian 803 wrote:
CACooper wrote:
Greetings all,

Remember, we did vote for "change". And boy, are we getting it! SCHIP, FDA. Ouch. affraid

As always, stock up while you still can. And prepare for $75 - $100+ a pound pipe tobacco (not factoring in state taxes) in the near future. "Hope" I can still afford it.

CACooper

I assume that you are using the editorial we and referring to our fellow citizens. I for one did not vote for change. I heartily concur with your "hope" that we will still be able to afford our lifestyle in the years to come.

You are correct, sir. "We" refers to the slim majority. But with all the ACORN voter fraud around the nation, I have my doubts about that "majority". But enough political discussion, even though tobacco use has gotten very political, lately.

Smoke in peace.

CACooper
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