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Puffy

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Age : 75
Location : North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-23

PostSubject: Smoking Bans   Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:49 pm

There's something about this rash of smoking bans that
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kilted1
Great Scot!
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Age : 56
Location : North Georgia, USA
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:58 pm

really burns my shorthairs Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:19 pm

NCguy wrote:
There's something about this rash of smoking bans that
sucks ash...
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Justpipes
The Duke
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Age : 58
Location : Randolph County, NC If you don't know, you wouldn't understand.
Registration date : 2007-12-17

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:09 am

I live in NC and January 1st we will no longer be able to smoke a pipe at our pipe club meeting. This past Tuesday was the last smoking meeting. Everyone agreed to continue meeting but I have a feeling that the membership will decline. The next step will be that they will tell us that we can't even meet to discuss pipes and tobaccos.

Hey folks, let's give it up for the knuckleheads that railroaded all the liberals into office this past cycle with the straight party vote...........for........drum roll please.........OBAMA! cheers
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cutshot

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Age : 56
Location : Bluegrass State
Registration date : 2009-01-30

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:25 am

I'm in Michigan for the weekend and just heard on the radio that they just passed legislation to become the 38th state to ban smoking in public.

Another one bites the dust! Evil or Very Mad
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Smokey Joe

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Age : 53
Location : Georgia Boonies
Registration date : 2009-10-29

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:43 pm

This outta get ya' blood boiling. There is a gentleman in town who built, owned and operated a barbershop since the early 60's. His son took over in the 90's and moved the shop to his property by converting an old barn. The upstairs was converted into a smoking parlor for pipe and cigar smokers to relax after a cut and shave. This was the last business in town that we could smoke our pipes.
Turns out, even though the business was on private property, it was zoned as public property because of the owner's advertisements in the local paper! So now the smoking ban includes the barbershop which sits on private property Evil or Very Mad
Seems to me that folks ought to have the freedom to run their businesses as they choose, on their own damn property.
Just another example of a small business getting kicked in the arse by our liberal big brother Evil or Very Mad
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ftrplt

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Age : 71
Location : Split between Raleigh, NC and OKC, OK
Registration date : 2007-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Oh JP, I really can't believe we won't be able to smoke at Duffy's!!!!!!!! I'm really disappointed in my home state!!!!! FTRPLT
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Anthony

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Age : 32
Location : Denver Colorado
Registration date : 2009-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:08 pm

Call me ignorant, but honestly is there any chance of undoing the damage politically?

Can things like that/this ever be rescinded? I'm not too edjumukated when it comes to politics.
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shortcircuit



Registration date : 2009-10-12

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:09 pm

I hate to say it, but not any time soon. When legislation is going to place some sort of restriction on smoking the majority of people either are in favor or don't care because it does not affect them. Such an attitude makes it really easy for anti-smoking legislation to get passed. Couple that with vague definitions of 'private property' and 'individual freedom' and suddenly you have an entire industry that can feel the noose tightening.

Of course, if the mind of the general public was somehow turned away from it's anti-smoking behavior then certainly smoking bans and perhaps even taxes on tobacco could be reversed. Like I said though, I don't see this happening any time in the near future.
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Ol'Dawg

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Age : 71
Location : Northeast Georgia
Registration date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:33 pm

Another thing to consider is the fact that anti-smoking is a really big business funded mainly by the tobacco industry from law suits a few years ago, donations to the the various health organizations such as the American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, and by the pharmaceutical companies and the makers of smoking cessation products.

Here are a few websites that provide info from the "other side" of the war.

Second Hand Smoke Facts

In Defence of Smokers

The Evidence Archive

Where's the Consensus on Second Hand Smoke

A Pack of Lies

Foundations, Government Bankroll Anti-Tobacco Crusade

Jim
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HistoryMajor

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Age : 28
Location : Alberta, Canada
Registration date : 2009-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:38 pm

Quote :
Hey folks, let's give it up for the knuckleheads that railroaded all the liberals into office this past cycle with the straight party vote...........for........drum roll please.........OBAMA!
It's hardly a liberal/conservative issue...the smoking bans in Alberta were passed by a Conservative government, and recent legislation banning flavoured tobacco came in under a federal Conservative government. It's a bipartisan issue, and there is no recourse through the legislature.


Quote :
Call me ignorant, but honestly is there any chance of undoing the damage politically?

Can things like that/this ever be rescinded? I'm not too edjumukated when it comes to politics.
Because of the entrenched nature of property rights in teh United States, I think there probably is...but I don't know. Honestly, since Canada has a much larger tradition of anti-tobacco sentiment, I think we will actually have an easier time fighting it.

First off, government has embarked on a campaign which not only targets the health aspects of smoking, but it has also denormalized smokers - this is an explicit part of the Canadian tobacco war. This has made smokers immoral. This is an attack on smokers and not smoking and because of this, there will be - in the next decade - a legitimate challenge to be made to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, because the government is violating S. 7 (Life, Liberty and Security of the Person). That's not to say there aren't other arguments to be made - violation of freedoms regarding smoking (property + right to do whatever the hell ya want to your body) have been justified under S. 1 of the Charter, which states that government may restrict liberties and rights if there is reasonable grounds to do so. This is determined through the application of the legal test, the Oakes Test. However, smoking bans fail the Oakes test, because they restrict freedoms in light of legitimate, moderate and reasonable alternatives. Ie. Restricting smoking to smoking bars would be a legitimate alternative, which would cause general smoking ban policy to fail the Oakes test in Canada.


Quote :
Of course, if the mind of the general public was somehow turned away from it's anti-smoking behavior then certainly smoking bans and perhaps even taxes on tobacco could be reversed.
I frequently get most of my Canadian news from CBC, which has an open discussion forum on each news topic that they report. When a topic about tobacco control, the overwhelming majority of people that comment on it are in favour of reducing tobacco controls. Again and difference between the US and Canada...we've been pushed so far that the government only needs to push a little harder before public opinion swings against them. The US is lagging probably 10-15 years behind us...so it'll be interesting.

Even when full smoking bans were instituted, over 50% of people were opposed to such excessive policy...so we shall see.
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epr64



Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:33 am

Yup, happening over and over again.

Now, they are looking on the soda drinkers, the hamburger eaters, etc..

Let's not do the same error as they did. Let's fight together.

Smokers are a minority, they can be ignored.
Soda drinkers are probably a minority, they can be ignored.
etc..

But how namy non-smoker, non-soda-drinkers, non-hamburger eaters, etc.. are there (I mean, all of that TOGETHER)? A VERY TINY MINORITY.

It's the only way to kick the nannies back into their shoes, and stop having them sniffing ours.

Just my 0.02

Y
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Justpipes
The Duke
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Age : 58
Location : Randolph County, NC If you don't know, you wouldn't understand.
Registration date : 2007-12-17

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:07 pm

ftrplt wrote:
Oh JP, I really can't believe we won't be able to smoke at Duffy's!!!!!!!! I'm really disappointed in my home state!!!!! FTRPLT

Believe it! NC has been taken over by the progressive liberals as a result of the influx of transient yankees. No offense to my good yankee brothers but it has a lot to do with it. Duffy exhausted all avenues in trying to work something out but it is just too cost prohibative to satisfy the state's requirements (intentionally so). From what I hear even the few high end cigar bars down town are giving up too.
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ftrplt

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Age : 71
Location : Split between Raleigh, NC and OKC, OK
Registration date : 2007-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Smoking Bans   Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:15 pm

Justpipes wrote:
ftrplt wrote:
Oh JP, I really can't believe we won't be able to smoke at Duffy's!!!!!!!! I'm really disappointed in my home state!!!!! FTRPLT

Believe it! NC has been taken over by the progressive liberals as a result of the influx of transient yankees. No offense to my good yankee brothers but it has a lot to do with it. Duffy exhausted all avenues in trying to work something out but it is just too cost prohibative to satisfy the state's requirements (intentionally so). From what I hear even the few high end cigar bars down town are giving up too.

I have no idea how I've lived this long without someone in government telling me what to do and how to do it!!!!! FTRPLT
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