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 I know there are some hunter & firearms types...

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LL

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PostSubject: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:35 pm

...on the BoB board.

And therefore at least a few big bore fans.

Y'all need one of these. Twisted Evil

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1264105714
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:52 pm

A real man would chamber it for a pistol! Laughing
Quote :
You may have to watch the recoil twice. Try to follow the gun. This video is basically a 'show and tell' of a custom built handgun on a Thompson Encore (fancy version of the Thompson Contender). The Caliber? ...600 Nitro Express.

That's right...an elephant gun round in a handgun. The story goes that the guy that built it is some kind of custom gun maker, and built this as an exhibition piece. He took it to the range with him just to show it off, and the big guy that shot it (in the video) had been bugging the builder to let him shoot it.

Only until fairly recently (early-mid '80's IIRC) the 600 Nitro Express was hands down the biggest, nastiest, hardest hitting, and heaviest recoiling weapon you could buy.

It was designed for one simple purpose...to knock an elephant flat on his butt... IMO, it was really built as an exhibition piece for guys 'compensating' .. This cartridge is known for breaking collarbones, arms and shoulders...of the shooter!

In the gun world they use what is termed a 'recoil index' to give prospective buyers an idea of what a gun kicks like..

A 30-06 gets a rating of a 1.0, which for many people is about the limit of what they can shoot multiple rounds thru comfortably. A 243 BR is rated at like a 0.4, a 270 was like a 08, etc.

The 600 Nitro Express is at a 9.4................9.4 times more punishing power than a 30-06. And this one is in a HANDGUN, not a rifle (which is what the 9.4 index reference is based upon).


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LL

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:07 pm

I hereby concede the Recoil Wars to j the hugget. There's no topping that. Laughing
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mark
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:00 pm

And I though I had some hand cannons !!!,,I'm still cringing watching these guys drop all that expensive gear on the floor,,,
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Carlos
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:32 pm

I wonder how they would fare with the adrenaline pumping though their veins from an elephant charge at 10 - 15 yards in thick scrub?

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:49 pm

The idea of shooting, what I will reluctantly call, a weapon of that caliber in that package isn't machismo, it is stupidity. With proper shot placement there isn't a creature in N. America a 30-06 will not kill. To be 100% truthful a .270 Winchester is perfectly adequate once the Brown bear is taken off the table. Sure hunting big bears its wise to step up a notch for safety sake, but it isn't necessary. The average adult male should, with proper training, be able to handle the 30-06 recoil in a standard bolt action rifle. I've watched so much stupidity with firearms it is painful to watch videos like that.

I know a man that,successfully, hunts wild boar with a SKS in the standard 7.62x39 caliber. He has friends that have taken every thing up to .460 Weatherby Mags.. When asked the diff? "I eat pork chops, they eat sausage".. Now I'll admit I almost pee'd on myself laughing the first time he said that, its funny, but its very true...

We men sometimes think of caliber as an extension of our sexual prowess, utter nonsense... If the max you can handle is a 30-30 be great with a 30-30, if you can handle a .600 nitro, be great with a 30-06 or at most a 7mm... Much more is just compensating.
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Justpipes
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:46 pm

I am hoping that the only rounds in those firearms are the ones that were discharged in the chamber.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:37 am

I shoot a Browning A Bolt .270, it's all the gun I need. When I decided to go elk hunting one year I began trying out a bunch of different big bore rifles like the 300 win mag, 7mm mag, etc. Went right back to my .270 and got a really good, heavy Nossler Partition bullet. Accurate shooting and good bullet expansion at impact is worth far more than bigger bang. I can't tell you how many guys I know of who either flinch at trigger pull (misplaced shot) or simply won't practice (poor shooter) because of the kick of these guns. Hit em a couple of inches behind the shoulder halfway down the rib and they go down, period.

Best bear gun, 12 gauge shotgun with a copper sabot slug. It will do your elephants too, if the need arises. Just use the Ron White method : "Shoot im in the head! I can see his f*@%*!g head!!" Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:41 am

Growing up in the hills of East Tennessee, my dad took me hunting quite often. He taught me to hunt squirrel using an old Remington single shot, bolt action 22. My buddies all went hunting small game like rabbit and squirrel with a 12 guage, but my dad would always make me take the 22 (even though I begged to use his 16 guage Browning or at least his semi-automatic 22).

He told me if I couldn't kill a squirrel with my single shot 22, then I needed more practice Exclamation As I grew up, our hunting trips graduated up to turkey, but dad still made me learn how to do it with a single shot 12 guage. His theory was if you couldn't hit it with the first shot, then it was time to quit and head for the house.

To this day I am a pretty dang good shot, and I credit the old man for teaching me.
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:42 am

Your dad was right. My favorite shotgun is my Browning Citori, a simple 26" over under 12 gauge field gun with each barrel choked a bit differently, one more open, one tighter. You need to quickly evaluate the target, select the barrel you want (simple switch on the tang where your thumb rests) and take your best shot. This keeps you from simply blasting away at an area like many do with pump or semi autos and wait to see what (if) drops. Forces you to be a good shot. About the only time I don't like using it is in a duck blind because of the mud and moisture, too nice of a gun to get all boogered up, so I use my Remington 870. Even then, I seldom take more than 2 shots.

I always wantd one of those little over unders that was chambered for 22 long in one barrel and .410 in the other. What a fun light game/upland gun that would be Smile

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shadrack

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:18 pm

I've seen both of those...great vids for a laugh. Here is another clip featuring a heck of a ricochet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53rtoxjfi0 Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:48 pm

The .577 was designed as a "last resort" gun. Not for hunters, but for guides--whose job it is to keep the hunter alive. With a muzzle brake and shocks, it's doable. The one in the video was plain--and painful. I think the round develops 11000-12000 lbs of energy. The 30-06 is, borderline, adequate for anything in NA--if there is a guide behind you with something bigger. The .577 was not intended for NA use. Cape buffalo and elephants can be really difficult to put down. Admittedly, Karamojo Bell killed 1011 elephants with a damned 7x57!
Funny story about recoil. I use to work in a gun shop. We had a very wealthy client with 10-15 African safaris under his belt, call us with a problem--dead trigger on a double rifle--600 Nitro. "Yeah, we can fix it." He brought in one of the most beautiful doubles you've ever seen. From memory, I think it was a Purdey with a ton of engraving. We took forever just finding the darn plate screws--they were integrated that well in the carvings. So, we replaced the spring. He left us two rounds to test fire it. We went to the bunker. Mike fired the first shot. When he quit complaining, it was my turn. OUCH! So, the owner shows up to reclaim his toy. I asked him (oh, he weighs, maybe 140, Mike and I are both well over 200) "how do you stand the recoil?" He said, "Oh, sonny, when an elephant is charging you, you don't notice the recoil!"
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Mikem
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:05 pm

I do a lot of shooting. My "fun" guns are 45-90's shooting a 519 grain bullet. Two 1885 clones (a Winchester and a Browning) and a Uberti Sharps. Since loosing all my weight (and built in shoulder padding lol! ) I wear a shoulder pad and can shoot them all day long. IMHO "recoil" to a degree is all in the eyes of the beholder. I have a hunting friend who hunts with either a 300 win mag or a 7mm mag yet is genuinely frightened to shoot my rifles because of their size and perceived recoil which to me is no worse than what he hunts with. We joke with him because of his saying that you need to build in your "flinch factor" when aiming and shooting any rifles with a heavy recoil.
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:42 pm

I like to shoot a lot as well. Caliber is only part of the equation along with powder capacity and to some extent barrel length. My 300 RUM loads 100 grains of powder behind the same 180gr bullet as my 30.06 with only 50 odd grains. Both are "30 caliber" but the RUM will hurt you after a while but you can shoot the 30.06 all day at the range. Those guys shooting the .577 were just dumb, no firearm should be subjected to that. Youtube sure brings out the worst.

I've been jonesing for an African style bolt rifle for a while. Regulated leaf sights, barrel band sling mount, the whole deal. Something in a .416 or larger. Not that there is a lot of practical use one in NA but nice to have in the collection.
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:10 pm

Hunter5117 wrote:
I've been jonesing for an African style bolt rifle for a while. Regulated leaf sights, barrel band sling mount, the whole deal. Something in a .416 or larger. Not that there is a lot of practical use one in NA but nice to have in the collection.

Interesting you mention the .416 Rigby, as it was the lower limit cartridge allowed in Jeff Cooper's invitational Fourth of July African simulation matches in the late 70's. (He was developing an "ultimate" thick brush/quick handling rifle, and thought a contest was the best way to see what actually works under practical conditions. The same process he used in the 50's and 60's that led to the IPSC and modern defensive pistolcraft.)

Anyway, I showed up with a Marlin 1895 45-70 lever gun (of modern manufacture), loaded with 53gr of 3031 under Speer's 400 grain soft point---ballistically identical to the .416---and won handily. Several times. Cool He didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

The dropped stock kicked like a bitch, but there was no beating the rapid follow-up shots afforded by the lever action + the tubular magazine's capacity for the course of fire. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:10 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:


I always wantd one of those little over unders that was chambered for 22 long in one barrel and .410 in the other. What a fun light game/upland gun that would be Smile

My late brother had a .410 over/under. It was a great gun for small game hunting, and as I recall, it was what he usually had with him when we were out in the woods.

I have a gun cabinet out in the garage that is packed full of shotguns (mostly ones I have inherited). The only "brand new" gun I have ever bought is a .410, but for some reason it's also my least used one out of them all.
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:27 pm

I saw a 45-90 snub nose revolver in a gun store once. The barrel was about half the length of the chamber. The owner of the store said he fired it once just to say he did it. He told me that if you can hold on to it the recoil sends the gun up over your head so that it swings around on your arm and the hammer digs into the back of your head.

No thanks.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:22 pm

LL wrote:
a Marlin 1895 45-70 lever gun
That is the exact gun I was just thinking of when considering what would be the one high powered rifle I'd actually like to own. What a fun gun to have! Would actually be a good, useable gun for pig and even elk in brushy regions. When I hunted the Big Hole mountains in Idaho the fall landscape was so overgrown with brush you were actually at a disadvantage with a scoped rifle. Most of the work was calling bulls in close, perfect for archery or open sighted rifles.

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:09 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
LL wrote:
a Marlin 1895 45-70 lever gun
That is the exact gun I was just thinking of when considering what would be the one high powered rifle I'd actually like to own. What a fun gun to have! Would actually be a good, useable gun for pig and even elk in brushy regions. When I hunted the Big Hole mountains in Idaho the fall landscape was so overgrown with brush you were actually at a disadvantage with a scoped rifle. Most of the work was calling bulls in close, perfect for archery or open sighted rifles.

I look at several of those and Winchester Model 94's when I was at the gun and knife show last week. I have been contemplating purchasing one of the two. Folks are rather proud of those rifles these days.
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:53 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
LL wrote:
a Marlin 1895 45-70 lever gun
That is the exact gun I was just thinking of when considering what would be the one high powered rifle I'd actually like to own. What a fun gun to have! Would actually be a good, useable gun for pig and even elk in brushy regions. When I hunted the Big Hole mountains in Idaho the fall landscape was so overgrown with brush you were actually at a disadvantage with a scoped rifle. Most of the work was calling bulls in close, perfect for archery or open sighted rifles.
Bingo. I used it for elk in AZ's Coconino and Kaibab NF's, sticking to the thick stuff. Hunted them (basically) the same way you'd hunt squirrels. Laughing

Under those conditions you want something that will reach the vitals from any angle, and the .45/400gr/1800fps combo did the trick every time. Just drilled a clean hole, and there was always a blood trail since it came out the other side. No bloodshot meat, either. Most of the guys I hunted with used .300 & .338 mags, and would ruin a couple cubic feet of meat with them, and didn't drop the animals any faster. Usually less quickly, in fact.

Always wanted to go after those hybrid Russian/feral boar that populate the TN/NC state line with it, but never did.

Still have the rifle, but haven't used it in many years. Last time was at a "cowboy combat" match, in fact, loaded with cast bullets and black powder. (All the smoke made for a great crowd pleaser, but you couldn't see a damn thing after the third shot Laughing )
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:41 am

Well, it's easy to see that most of the guys in the vid are not shooters. You can tell by their stance. Shooting like that, many would have been defeated by a smaller caliber anyway. I would love to try that rifle.
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:39 pm

Over the years, I've hunted every type of game, worthy of hunting, within the USA using a Marlin 1895G Lever Action 45/70 Guide Gun. It's a short, easy to carry rifle with an 18" barrel. I always used a slow moving (by today's standards) 405 grain Remington Factory Load, with very modest recoil and tons of knock down power.

The rifle and handgun featured in this thread are ridiculously over powered, basically unmanageable!!!
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Hunter5117

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:19 am

Justpipes wrote:
I look at several of those and Winchester Model 94's when I was at the gun and knife show last week. I have been contemplating purchasing one of the two. Folks are rather proud of those rifles these days.

I had 2 model 94's prior to Winchester stopping production, but neither was in 30-30 which I consider the classic caliber for that rifle. About a year ago I found one at a Cabela's at a ridiculously low price at today's standards - ended up buying it for under $200 after redeeming my few buyers club points. Shoots great and is a perfect rifle for carrying in the bush for quick shots at close range.
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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:19 am

Hunter5117 wrote:
Justpipes wrote:
I look at several of those and Winchester Model 94's when I was at the gun and knife show last week. I have been contemplating purchasing one of the two. Folks are rather proud of those rifles these days.

I had 2 model 94's prior to Winchester stopping production, but neither was in 30-30 which I consider the classic caliber for that rifle. About a year ago I found one at a Cabela's at a ridiculously low price at today's standards - ended up buying it for under $200 after redeeming my few buyers club points. Shoots great and is a perfect rifle for carrying in the bush for quick shots at close range.

Man, I sure would love to find one for under $200. What a deal! Here I have seen them in the $600-$1000 range and a few for even more.
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Hunter5117

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PostSubject: Re: I know there are some hunter & firearms types...   Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:29 am

I should have mentioned that the rifle was badly "blood stained" on the sides of the receiver, the blueing had been stripped down to metal but no etching or other damage to the metal itself. Makes the rifle look bad, much worse than it is as close inspection of the innards makes me believe it was not shot hardly at all. Had the usual dried out oil gunk all over it so it didn't cycle rounds very well until I gave it a disassembling and good cleaning. Someday I may get it reblued but not worried about it, it does what it was designed to do.
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