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 The coming age

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LL

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PostSubject: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:10 pm

Man's dark need for Conquest and Control of Others has always been limited by technology. For several million years, that limit was only as far as a rock or spear could be thrown.

For a thousand years or so after that, machinery gradually extended the range. But it still had to be physical.

Orwell understood that the nightmare of the next phase was only a technical breakthrough or two away. All he could imagine in 1949 was helicopters peeping in windows and TV screens that could look back at you, though.

That has now (officially) changed:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020304057_pf.html
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:27 pm

I'm a little skeptical about this one myself. Really it's been commercial entities that have driven much of the progress in security, not the government. The only thing I can see the NSA bringing to the table is intelligence data that could help them focus their defenses more but that landscape changes so quickly I don't see a huge benefit. Of course I don't really know what the NSA knows so it's hard to say. Hell they can't properly secure government networks, how much can they help out a private company? Especially one as far reaching as Google.

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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:52 pm

jhuggett wrote:
I'm a little skeptical about this one myself. Really it's been commercial entities that have driven much of the progress in security, not the government. The only thing I can see the NSA bringing to the table is intelligence data that could help them focus their defenses more but that landscape changes so quickly I don't see a huge benefit. Of course I don't really know what the NSA knows so it's hard to say. Hell they can't properly secure government networks, how much can they help out a private company? Especially one as far reaching as Google.

In the near term, that's probably true. There's a strategic shift signaled by this that will have profound long-term effects, however: 1) The government controller types---after a couple decades of trying to recruit the best & brightest without (much) success---have finally given up and decided to buy what they can't make themselves; and 2) they intend to make it impossible for the best & brightest to work EXCEPT for them.
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:08 pm

You might be on to something there. That is pretty scary really.

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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:52 pm

jhuggett wrote:
You might be on to something there. That is pretty scary really.

More than scary, it will mean the literal end of personal freedom. Living "off the grid" is already nearly impossible, and soon will be completely so.

The method is one we know well, too, from gun control and smoking/tobacco prohibition: Relentless "nibble" pressure. (The old "how to cook a frog" technique being key---raise the temperature of the water slowly enough that the frog succumbs without realizing what happened.)

Like this:

(nibble, nibble)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10446503-38.html?tag=mncol
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:58 pm

Aww but then rises the hacker freedom fighters! Twisted Evil

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Jason

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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:06 pm

jhuggett wrote:
Aww but then rises the hacker freedom fighters! Twisted Evil

They'll be dealt with easily: A 24/7 channel that airs only Star Wars and Star Trek episodes, plus offers an unlimited free lifetime supply of SF role playing & FPS games for download during breaks.
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Doc Manhattan

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:07 pm

LL wrote:
jhuggett wrote:
Aww but then rises the hacker freedom fighters! Twisted Evil

They'll be dealt with easily: A 24/7 channel that airs only Star Wars and Star Trek episodes, plus offers an unlimited free lifetime supply of SF role playing & FPS games for download during breaks.
Or an army of girls. We're Those guys are terrified of those.
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:34 pm

lol!

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Jason

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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:05 pm

jhuggett wrote:
Aww but then rises the hacker freedom fighters! Twisted Evil

Good call. It appears they're already organizing:

http://i.imgur.com/i24Kl.jpg
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jhuggett
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:25 pm

Those are just Linux geeks (LUG=Linux Users Group). For real hackers do a search for "defcon pictures". It might change your perceptions though, they are real freaks. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:37 pm

"The objective is to better defend Google -- and its users -- from future attack."

^^^

Seriously? How naive do they think we are?
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:02 pm

Frost wrote:
"The objective is to better defend Google -- and its users -- from future attack."

^^^

Seriously? How naive do they think we are?

Historically, the rationale-slash-excuse "Give us control of the money, weapons, and information so we can protect you" is a slam dunk. People (in general) are too lazy, short-sighted, and self-interested to not outsource their protection, and the aspiring Controllers know it.

In short, you might not be a sucker, but most people are. And they outnumber you to the point of irrelevance.
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:35 pm

Sadly, you are of course correct. Sometims I forget (or just don't want to believe) that so many people actually are the way that they are...
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:46 pm

Frost wrote:
Sometims I forget (or just don't want to believe) that so many people actually are the way that they are...

Definitely the latter, because forgetting is impossible. The power-grabbing dynamic is the very fabric of human history, and the root cause of every event of historical significance. (Natural disasters & etc. excepted, of course.)

The "don't want to believe" thing is a subtle---indeed, probably unconscious---sort of self delusion that most people have. It's a way of ducking responsibility for not taking action by flattering those who might otherwise criticize that lack of action. Put another way, it allows people a socially acceptable "out"---a way to be excused by their peers for making a selfish decision.

When the vast majority behave that way, the circle closes and creates an Emperor's New Clothes situation. A consensual delusion.

The only thing that breaks the hold of such consensual delusions is when the cost of maintaining it exceeds the benefit. (In the case of countries, that usually means a decline in the citizens' standard of living sufficient to create an armed insurrection/revolution. Until then, nothing whatsoever happens.)
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Frost

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:57 pm

An then of course the cycle begins anew...hooray...
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:45 pm

Frost wrote:
An then of course the cycle begins anew...hooray...

Yup. Laughing

Until the behavioral characteristics that Man evolved to compete as a species in a primitive world stop being effective in a civilized one, so it will forever be, too. DNA is stubborn stuff.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:21 pm

The scariest aspect of the current technology is the extent to which 'they' can see into every aspect of your life..
Imagine the cameras of London invading your mind, thats the extent it will come too..

How do you rally the family and raise a revolution (which,with the exception of one, never really has been, and even the exception was quickly nuetered) when they have the ability to snuff it out in your head, or in your mouth, or in your actions?

The Superhackers will be made examples of or harnessed for TPTB like they are in China....
The man that sprays "Evil Empire" graffiti will be almost instantly caught and his message whited out...


The time to act is for all intent just behind us, and people are still to comfortable to care.. by the time enough get uncomfortable it will be to late.. Technology is a bitch, and I think it has finally caught up and shifted the ability of the pitchfork and torch crowds ability to quash the evil baron away from them.
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: The coming age   Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:59 pm

puros_bran wrote:
The scariest aspect of the current technology is the extent to which 'they' can see into every aspect of your life..
Imagine the cameras of London invading your mind, thats the extent it will come too..

How do you rally the family and raise a revolution (which,with the exception of one, never really has been, and even the exception was quickly nuetered) when they have the ability to snuff it out in your head, or in your mouth, or in your actions?

The Superhackers will be made examples of or harnessed for TPTB like they are in China....
The man that sprays "Evil Empire" graffiti will be almost instantly caught and his message whited out...

The time to act is for all intent just behind us, and people are still to comfortable to care.. by the time enough get uncomfortable it will be to late.. Technology is a bitch, and I think it has finally caught up and shifted the ability of the pitchfork and torch crowds ability to quash the evil baron away from them.

Exactly so.

Until recently, the easiest way to avoid subjugation (and by far the tactic most likely to succeed) wasn't to resist, but simply to move.

Physical proximity is no longer required to exert control over people, however, plus there's nowhere to go, anyway. The surface of the Earth has been mapped down to the square meter, and the ball of rock itself is surrounded for lightyears in every direction by nothingness.

"But the U.S. is not China!" you say. "We have a Constitution to protect us! Such things could never happen here!"

Laughing Laughing Laughing

Words are an abstraction and easily changed, while DNA is the most fundamental sort of real and impossible to change (for all practical purposes).

DNA by KO ten seconds into the first round.
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