On Charred Chambers and Cake

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Kapnismologist

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So many of the estate pipes I acquire have poorly built cake and various degrees of charring in the chambers (typically in the last 1/3rd of the chamber, where many pipes tend to smoke hottest). I just received an mid-range estate which, when I removed the cake, had a nice gray ring of charred wood banding the chamber. Fortunately the charring was not too deep and was easily scraped and sanded out, leaving but a small irregularity in an otherwise straight walled chamber.

Now I myself am a notoriously hot smoker, and will readily admit to having charred a fair share of chambers. While I have a number of pipes in my rotation with gray spots in the bowls, I have never had a burn out. However, it is something I do worry about in certain cases.

Recently, I have started using a different approach to developing that first critical layer of protective cake in bare bowls. While I realized that this is already common practice for many, I have started to think about the possible reasons why it works so well.

The method: very slow, cool, and measured smoking until a nice black (not gray!) film of carbon is established. This is very different than the normal kind of smoking - if the pipe gets even more than pleasantly warm, I let it cool down before coaxing up the ember again. It is a slow and time consuming activity, especially since it is critical to smoke all the way to the heel.

It seems to me that a low burning temperature is critical, because it allows the sticky tars (or resins?) of the tobacco to not evaporate or burn up as quickly as they might if the temperature was higher, but rather remain on the walls of the chamber and thus serve as the necessary binding agent (i.e., glue) for the ash/carbon which composes the grit of the cake itself.

In addition to the 'super slow smoke', as many also do I fluff up the ash at the end of the smoke, cover the rim of the pipe with a match box, and shake to distribute the finer stuff on wall of the chamber (and then dump out any bits of dottle or clumps remaining in the bottom) - making it ready for the continued cake building of the next cake-building session. Recently, I have also started to add some finely ground tobacco to the mix (whatever blend I am using to do the break in is dried in the microwave until crispy and then ground in a mortar and pestle until it is the consistency of a fine snuff,). I have found that this little bit of extra tobacco coating the walls helps speed the process. I will also periodically smooth down in rough spots as the cake builds.

The result is typically a smooth, thin, hard black cake with nary a gray streak or spot to be found. It takes about 6-8 smokes. Thereafter, it is just a matter of regular maintenance.

Any thoughts on the merit of the 'super slow smoke' to keep away char would be greatly appreciated.
 
That's an awesome observation, Kap. I'm one who has to build the cake slowly. I typically smoke a few half bowls first in my pipes, then build it up from there. Your method sounds worth a try, for sure. Thanks for the good read.
 
TallSmoke":rzamddea said:
That's an awesome observation, Kap. I'm one who has to build the cake slowly. I typically smoke a few half bowls first in my pipes, then build it up from there. Your method sounds worth a try, for sure. Thanks for the good read.
Before starting to try this 'super slow smoke' method, I typically would just smoke the first half-dozen or so bowls carefully and that would be it. I charred chambers that way.

I have tried the 'half-bowls building up to full bowls' method as well, and found that works great for getting the sometimes difficult bottom of the bowl caked before the top to be sure! I am increasingly beginning to think however that whichever way you do it, it is more about allowing the tars/resins to build more than anything else - and that low temperatures are the way to get the most tar/resins on the chamber wall.

I wish I could have this lab tested - I am just speculating about the byproducts of tobacco combustion based on unscientific observation. But then again, Kapnismology is more of an art than a science!
 
Interesting KAP.......
I also opt for something similar.....I found that FVF is a monster fast cake builder for some reason, But it tends to smoke a little hot in a new or refurbished pipe.
I tend too hit new pipes with a couple of burley bowls nice and slow first. It does not burn as hot as a VA flake does!
BTW some of the guys have mentioned that Prince Albert is a fine baccy to break in a pipe, not sure why??? will find out when a friend of mine brings in a new shipment of it in from the US this weekend.

boy..... you should see some of the pipes I have cleaned...... my heart bleeds........!!!!!!!!
In my book the quickest way to trash a pipe is in the first 10 bowls.
Rule of thumb for me: Smoke real slow and right down.........
 
Piet Binsbergen":7gwds3a9 said:
Interesting KAP.......
I also opt for something similar.....I found that FVF is a monster fast cake builder for some reason, But it tends to smoke a little hot in a new or refurbished pipe.
I tend too hit new pipes with a couple of burley bowls nice and slow first. It does not burn as hot as a VA flake does!
BTW some of the guys have mentioned that Prince Albert is a fine baccy to break in a pipe, not sure why??? will find out when a friend of mine brings in a new shipment of it in from the US this weekend.

boy..... you should see some of the pipes I have cleaned...... my heart bleeds........!!!!!!!!
In my book the quickest way to trash a pipe is in the first 10 bowls.
Rule of thumb for me: Smoke real slow and right down.........
That is great advice (on good cake building tobaccos and on smoking SLOOOWLY to get it established)!

How much charred wood do you typically find in the chambers of your refurbs? Is it always gray in color, or is it black too (I am wondering if there is a difference)? My initial assumption with a charred chamber is that it is typically best to simply remove the char (which unfortunately results in a depression at the charred spot) so that it will not further char further, and then to start again by building a whole new cake.

I know that some fellows like to use 'pipe mud' (a mixture of cigar ash and water or saliva) to fill up cracked or charred areas, but I have tried that numerous times and did not like the results.
 
I was just thinking this am (as I smoked a little University Flake) that flakes tend to build cake more quickly than other cuts. I agree that flakes tend to burn very hot in comparison to ribbon cut and can easily char during the breaking in stage. My last PAD was a Stanwell that I broke in with Va flakes and it has an awesome cake now. With other pipes that I broke in with traditional English blends, the cake took much longer to build.... Same result but less time with flakes.
 
Kapnismologist":vch5pihy said:
Piet Binsbergen":vch5pihy said:
Interesting KAP.......
I also opt for something similar.....I found that FVF is a monster fast cake builder for some reason, But it tends to smoke a little hot in a new or refurbished pipe.
I tend too hit new pipes with a couple of burley bowls nice and slow first. It does not burn as hot as a VA flake does!
BTW some of the guys have mentioned that Prince Albert is a fine baccy to break in a pipe, not sure why??? will find out when a friend of mine brings in a new shipment of it in from the US this weekend.

boy..... you should see some of the pipes I have cleaned...... my heart bleeds........!!!!!!!!
In my book the quickest way to trash a pipe is in the first 10 bowls.
Rule of thumb for me: Smoke real slow and right down.........
That is great advice (on good cake building tobaccos and on smoking SLOOOWLY to get it established)!

How much charred wood do you typically find in the chambers of your refurbs? Is it always gray in color, or is it black too (I am wondering if there is a difference)? My initial assumption with a charred chamber is that it is typically best to simply remove the char (which unfortunately results in a depression at the charred spot) so that it will not further char further, and then to start again by building a whole new cake.

I know that some fellows like to use 'pipe mud' (a mixture of cigar ash and water or saliva) to fill up cracked or charred areas, but I have tried that numerous times and did not like the results.
Kap..... you don't want to know........ charred black as the night with and cracked that it looks like a piece of fire wood! the chamber is total charcoal. I use a very fine sharp needle which is long. I prick the chamber to test the level of charring before I start. I stress that the needle is very fine and thin so not to gouge holes in the wall. If the needle sinks through the cake with ease and penetrates the wood by more than a mm....... we are in trouble. The client is notified of the chamber condition and it gets a light smoothing out with fine grit sand paper on a dowel.
Under a MM and we are safe to go. If requested I remove cake down to clean wood and start a new break in. Pipes that come into my own collection are given the full monty unless I know where they have come from. EG. Muddler is a good pipe man and a friend. I know he is ibola, hepatitis, and HIV free.
Most bowls are salt leeched with alcohol to get rid of any ghosting and draw oils from the wood, especially if the pipe was dedicated to goopy aro's.
The process is obviously alot more involved than I have just written but you should get my drift.
I do not use pipe mud as I do not feel it forms a solid foundation on an already dodge charred chamber. Fine cracks I suppose are fine to plug.

Hey MISTER E...... you are quite right there, VA especially flakes build cake monster fast. I do not prefer to tear and stuff Flakes to break in a pipe. They smoke a little hot and burn uneven for the break in. I did Break in a Sav Pisa Bulldog on well rubbed out FVF. It worked real well but the bowl pre carbonized. A couple of guys may disagree with me here and rightfully so, thats just my opinion on the subject, rather safe than sorry!!!
 
No offense, but smooth, cool smoking, and stopping if the pipe gets warm is just "regular pipe smoking". And the thin, hard, almost glasslike cake you are talking about is good cake. Nothing more, and nothing less. Other built up, leftover junk is just that - built up leftover junk, rather than proper cake.

I really hate to come on like a prick here, and I really try to follow the "if it works for you it's right" sort of scenario in pipe smoking in general, but if you guys are burning briars regularly, you are smoking too hot. Not only does this harm pipes, but it totally changes the way any blend will taste. You can control the burn temperature by probably a couple hundred degrees, and the resulting flavors at either end of the spectrum are completely different.

I'm off my soapbox now.

 
Sasquatch":er0574n6 said:
No offense, but smooth, cool smoking, and stopping if the pipe gets warm is just "regular pipe smoking". And the thin, hard, almost glasslike cake you are talking about is good cake. Nothing more, and nothing less. Other built up, leftover junk is just that - built up leftover junk, rather than proper cake.

I really hate to come on like a prick here, and I really try to follow the "if it works for you it's right" sort of scenario in pipe smoking in general, but if you guys are burning briars regularly, you are smoking too hot. Not only does this harm pipes, but it totally changes the way any blend will taste. You can control the burn temperature by probably a couple hundred degrees, and the resulting flavors at either end of the spectrum are completely different.

I'm off my soapbox now.
SASQUATCH.........
Thanks for the comments, you may have noticed that I am not referring to my own smoking habits here but some pipes I have cleaned for clients............... My own collection does not look like that nor do I smoke like a bobojaan!!! :roll: :roll:
But Yes ...... I agree with what you say and I have never burnt a briar of my own to date. Hot smoking is really bad smoking!! besides......... forget the briar, I will worry more about my scorpion stung tongue! By the time briar looks like that I have described I think anybody should be overdue for a tongue transplant!
 
Sasquatch":pggijt0z said:
No offense, but smooth, cool smoking, and stopping if the pipe gets warm is just "regular pipe smoking". And the thin, hard, almost glasslike cake you are talking about is good cake. Nothing more, and nothing less. Other built up, leftover junk is just that - built up leftover junk, rather than proper cake.

I really hate to come on like a prick here, and I really try to follow the "if it works for you it's right" sort of scenario in pipe smoking in general, but if you guys are burning briars regularly, you are smoking too hot. Not only does this harm pipes, but it totally changes the way any blend will taste. You can control the burn temperature by probably a couple hundred degrees, and the resulting flavors at either end of the spectrum are completely different.

I'm off my soapbox now.
Very good points indeed!

I admit I do tend to be a hot smoker, but have rectified that over time (although not always - sometimes it is just too tough to do and I say screw it, I want to puff this baby, heat be damned!). The latter especially when I am intending to review a blend and need to put it through all conceivable paces of burn rate, temp, etc. to get a feel for its range.

However, the larger question here is that of the idea that a very, very slow, controlled, low-temperature burn (way slower than what you rightly describe above as "regular pipe smoking") somehow allows for a greater amount of sticky tars/resins to collect on the chamber walls in a way they might normally otherwise do. The idea being that it is these byproducts of such combustion which are necessary for that smooth, glass-like cake which helps to ward off char later on. Or, if it is something else entirely?

In any case, a very, very informative thread. I do not think your comment are 'soapbox' material one bit!
 
Okay... a few things. First, what the hell is a Bobojaan???


:D

"a very, very slow, controlled, low-temperature burn (way slower than what you rightly describe above as "regular pipe smoking") somehow allows for a greater amount of sticky tars/resins to collect on the chamber walls in a way they might normally otherwise do. The idea being that it is these byproducts of such combustion which are necessary for that smooth, glass-like cake which helps to ward off char later on."

I suspect that this is indeed exactly the case. Link this to LL's budding theory that the very best smokers all share this hard, thin, glassy cake, and a guy starts to think that some pipes lean toward this type of burn inherently, or at the very least, smoked normally, will produce such a cake.

I know if you burn real slow in a wood stove, far more creosote develops in the chimney than if you burn hot and fast. So I think it stands to reason that slow burn in a pipe would do the same, and put a nice even coating on the walls to boot.
 
Sasquatch":6v004dc5 said:
I know if you burn real slow in a wood stove, far more creosote develops in the chimney than if you burn hot and fast. So I think it stands to reason that slow burn in a pipe would do the same, and put a nice even coating on the walls to boot.
As for a Bobojaan, I'll leave that to Piet - but sounds like some type of primate to me.

As for the wood burning stove analogy, that seems quite germane to the initial observation and makes a lot of sense to me. I would assume that there must be certain types of tars and such like which do not combust at low temperatures but will do so at higher ones. Too bad we do not have a chemist on the board (or do we?) to explain the exact processes at play!

Thanks to both you and Piet for the great info. - very helpful indeed!!!

 
Actually I do have a chemistry degree.

A slower burn probably produces (rather, leaves behind) longer carbon chains than a really hot one. If you get stuff real hot, molecules get excited enough to start falling apart. If you think about what the orange part of fire is, it's really smoke that is burning and giving off light. So sometimes you'll see those big licking tongues and sometimes you'll see smoke, which is still basically particulate. To carry this analogy to pipes, a really hot burn is going to incinerate tobacco, leave very small carbon chains in it's wake due to that thorough combustion, and basically scour it's own path, so to speak.

Or this could all be baloney. That chem degree is in the pretty distant past.... :cheers:
 
Sasquatch":19fb7zpf said:
Actually I do have a chemistry degree.

A slower burn probably produces (rather, leaves behind) longer carbon chains than a really hot one. If you get stuff real hot, molecules get excited enough to start falling apart. If you think about what the orange part of fire is, it's really smoke that is burning and giving off light. So sometimes you'll see those big licking tongues and sometimes you'll see smoke, which is still basically particulate. To carry this analogy to pipes, a really hot burn is going to incinerate tobacco, leave very small carbon chains in it's wake due to that thorough combustion, and basically scour it's own path, so to speak.

Or this could all be baloney. That chem degree is in the pretty distant past.... :cheers:
In the absence of competing analyses, I am more than happy to accept this explanation as being quite far from baloney (and suddenly find myself inclined to go to the kitchen for a sandwich by the way).

I do not know if you smoke a clay much, but I have on and off (although broke the last one I had). One thing I noticed with the long clays I have smoked is that after about a dozen or so smokes, the white clay began to become stained yellow/brown in various places where the tars and whatnot created by the smoke we seeping through and solidifying. I could turn these spots back to pure white, however, just by heating up the clay to a very high temperature over a gas flame. Essentially 'scrubbing away' the longer carbon chains through very high heat (i.e., breaking them up to the point that they essentially dissipate into the air as very fine particulate matter, or smoke I suppose). All told, with everything you adduced previously (+ your training in chemistry) I think it all makes a great deal of sense.

Many thanks for that and for the above!
 
All my pipes are also made with 10% real baloney, which explains the easy break in.
 
Sasquatch":4ni5kclg said:
All my pipes are also made with 10% real baloney, which explains the easy break in.
...and thus the new 'lunch break' series, delivered in a brown paper sock, complete with protective baggie, buffing napkin, and mustard-pack stem polish.
 
Good going SAS and KAP..... I have nothing more to add! you guys have said it all.
KAP is right........ a bobojaan is a BABOON / Monkey..... afrikaans slang for someone that is "thick" or acts and behaves stupid!!

KAP Afrikaans 101 passed with distinction brother!!
 
Have to agree with the wood ape, slow smoking yields the best smokes and biggest flavor :)

 
I was rummaging through the forums last night and came across this, I found it to be very informative and helpful. As such I'm bringing it back from the depths of the forum and to the attention of many here.
 
I was told years ago, that the best cake is formed by smoking Virginia's, as it produced the strongest cake. Can't say if that is correct or not, but I have over the years been a smoker of predominately Virginia tobacco, mostly flakes, of late.

I have found over the years that,IMHO, if you can get to the point of thouroughly enjoying Virginia flakes, there's not much left for you to learn about pipe smoking. I say this because unless you load your tobacco correctly and smoke it as it is meant to be smoked, SIP IT, it'll bite yer tounge and kick yer butt.

If you can consistently enjoy Virginia's you can enjoy any type of tobacco :lol!:
 
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