Pipe waxing?

[Davey]

LuckyD,

send me your pipe and I will finish refurb it for you if you like...then smoke it first!

 

[pipemaker]

Halcyon, Paragon and some of the other microcrystaline waxes are great for stems, since they do reduce oxidation caused by light, air and moisture, but I would not use them on a briar pipe.

The attributes sound good. They are harder than Carnuba( although in pure form Carnuba is actually harder than concrete). They have a higher melting point than Carnuba and their biggest draw is they are easy to apply and will give an acceptable finish without power buffing.

Almost all of these microcrystalline waxes use Carnuba as a base but also incorporate varying amounts of synthetic polymers, silicones and even mineral spirits in the formulation. Unfortunately many of these waxes are advertised and sold as Pure Carnuba Wax

Over time, these additives will cloud and eventually occlude, closing up and blocking the pores of the briar and restricting the pipes ability to breathe.

I realize it is difficult to resist the ease of use factor, but in the long run, I believe you will be glad you did.

Mike

 

[luckydogguy]

Just thought I would keep you updated.

Well, here's how it went:

First, I try reconditioning my stem on my "junker" pipe. It was a bit green and had little shine. So, I used my Dremel with a buffing pad with some rubbing compound. That took the green off and a dull luster was added. Next, I used a polishing compound with the Dremel and that made a real nice shine appear. I then added some olive oil to the stem with the dremel and it turned out GREAT! :cheers:


Next was the bowl. The top was uneven and badly burned ( not from me of course). So I took my orbital sander to just the rim of it with 120 grit. Then, 250 grit. After that I used my dremel with the rubbing and polishing compound. At the end I held the dremel a little too long in one spot and REburned the rim. So back to the sand paper to start over. When I used the compounds next I used a lot of water so the buffing pad wold not dry a out and burn the wood again. After it was all said and done. The rim of the bowl looks a lot better and the stems look almost new. But bowl itself still has a dullness to it.

So what should I use on the bowl now?



Thanks guys.

 

[Mikem]

Halcyon, Paragon and some of the other microcrystaline waxes are great for stems, since they do reduce oxidation caused by light, air and moisture, but I would not use them on a briar pipe.........

........Over time, these additives will cloud and eventually occlude, closing up and blocking the pores of the briar and restricting the pipes ability to breathe.

I realize it is difficult to resist the ease of use factor, but in the long run, I believe you will be glad you did.

Mike

:affraid: ale: Oh no, now what am I going to do with that large jar of Paragon. I knew I should of asked before getting that big jar. What you say makes sense. Great information Mike and thanks. Looks like I've got a lot of pipe stem polishing to do before I can use up that jar. :lol:

 

[howellhandmade]

SNIP
Over time, these additives will cloud and eventually occlude, closing up and blocking the pores of the briar and restricting the pipes ability to breathe.

I realize it is difficult to resist the ease of use factor, but in the long run, I believe you will be glad you did.

Mike

Will they? I wonder. It's possible, of course, but I don't think anyone has done that experiment. Pipe smokers have long lived in fear of anything that will restrict their pipes' ability to "breathe." I would expect mineral spirits to evaporate. Silicone I would expect to remain with the wax until it is worn off by handling, and might dull over time, but unattended carnauba dulls, too. I'm projecting a different theoretical result based on my own assumptions. I've never tried the stuff (don't throw it out, md!) so I neither endorse nor condemn it, but from what I read I don't see why it would clog the pores of briar while carnauba would not. My apologies if this seems argumentative, but clogging the pores is what produces the shine and is exactly the point. If our pipes truly are harmed by an impermeable finish, we can take comfort in the fact that no finish is truly impermeable, which I say as a bamboo fly rod maker who earnestly desires an impermeable finish. Some are more permeable than others, and any wax, even a modern high-tech one, will be relatively permeable. Even if a wax preparation does contain silicone it remains unproven that it does or will eventually degrade the quality of the smoke. Perhaps a good use of md's jar would be to divide it up and do an experiment. Each participant would select a pipe or two and use the product for a period of time, noting its performance and any change, if perceptible, in the smoking quality of the pipe(s). Ideally, there would be a control, but I don't know what we could use for that.

Regarding the question of stem oxidation, a coat of wax sounds fine, but in practice, will only look good on stems that aren't highly polished and have a dull enough finish to hold the wax. The best thing is to avoid light and heat. And ozone generators. Those Alpine Air things are great for odors and smoke, but rough on stems. A semi-regular polishing will do well to stave off oxidation better than waiting until restoration is needed. As any motorhead will tell you, a polished surface is easier to maintain than an oxidized one is to reclaim. A little oxidation getting a foothold creates more surface area for oxidation, and so forth.

Jack

 

[Davey]

OK,

So a lot of good info here, but real confusing for one major reason.

I notice that Petes especially Killarney finishes have a real hard finish, like a laquer which I cannot see how that breathes AT ALL.
These pipes are supposed to smoke real well however.

Are we to be staying clear of these types of pipes with these kinds of finishes?

I have just started rubbing down my pipes and stems with olive oil for a bit of sheen. Should I dicontinue this on the bowls?

 

[thomas james]

I had a collection of pipes, ten, fro the sixies and seventies that sat in their rack until I resumed pipe smoking four years ago. That's thirty + - years of stem oxidation. They were hideous; pea soup green/brown. Tasted awful.

I restored them as follows. Remove stem and scrub it with five O steel wool. Nothing more, nothing less. No polishing compound or anything. You can see the oxidation build up on the steel wool. Keep "fresh" s/w in contact at all times. About a half hour per stem removed ALL of the discoloration. A s/w'd stem then returns to black, but dull black. Next step was to use Savinelli stem polish, any will do. The trick is to rub the polish in using a thumb and index finger, not a rag. About another half hours worth of work. Tedious but very very effective. Stems were restored to new status. I gave eight away and kept two. All were vulcanite.

Now, I just ocassionaly use stem polish, again, thumb and index finger.

I have heard that a buffer is necessary to put stems "back" and keep them there. My experience is that you can put a glass like shine on a stem BY HAND.

Save the money and spend it on tobacco.

For bowls, a halcyon shine up every now and then as needed, Also applied with bare fingers and rubbed in well.

tj,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,capo de tutti capi

 

[Puff Daddy]

...no finish is truly impermeable, which I say as a bamboo fly rod maker who earnestly desires an impermeable finish.

Are you the same Jack Howell who wrote "The lovely reed", the guide to building bamboo fly rods?

 

[pipemaker]

Mike M,

Use that Paragon like you would use Renaissance wax on some of your smaller woodworking projects. It is basically the same thing with a minor reformulation.

Jack,

There is no need to apologize, you are not being argumentative. Discussions like this afford everyone an opportunity to ask questions and hopefully the impetus to reasearch the facts themselves.

When addressed, the research that I have conducted specifically states that natural pure Carnuba wax "is breathable", "does breathe"

The same research concludes that the microcrystaline synthetics and blends do occlude.

The chemistry is complex and involved, and the effects of oxidation, hydrolysis, saponification and others add or subtract to the breathability of these waxes over time.

It may be important to realize that the original Renaissance wax was developed with it's major purpose being the preservation of antique museum quality woodwork.

I have experimented with these microcrystalline waxes.
Several years ago, when TSW first came out, it was touted as being the best wax of it's kind available. (At $18/oz. I guess I would say that too.)
Actually is was very good for most woodworking projects, so I did experiment with it's application on several pipes.

I applied it very lightly on a roughly once a month schedule, and buffed it as I do Carnuba.

After about two years I thought I could detect a slight deterioration in the smoking qualities of these pipes, possibly because I expected to. What influenced me was a noticable increase in the exterior temperature of the bowl. I dropped the experiment after that, since one of the most pleasurable aspects of pipe smoking is the feel of the briar in my hand.

This is getting long winded so I will end this here, but if anyone in interested in more, my mainspring is only half unwound. :bounce:

Mike

 

[Davey]

geat stuff guys, but does anyone have thoughts on my question regarding the Petes and their finish vs breathablilty?

 

[luckydogguy]

I'm too I'm wondering about Davey's question. Anyone have any idea?

Thanks,
Lucky

 

[tin man]

Pipemaker2,
I enjoy your posts and I hope to read more about wax as your "mainspring unwinds". (I'm gonna catch hell for sayin' that . . . . . :roll It sounds like it would be in the best interest for the average pipe owner to stay away from any and all wax unless he owns (and knows how to use) the right buffing wheels. Please correct me if I understood that incorrectly. I hope you don't mind a couple of basic questions.

With regard to the briar not breathing after using Halcyon wax, are you referring to a breathing reduction or a completely sealed condition? If it is a seal, is this seal permanent or do you think that as the shine wears off so does the seal?

How long will it take to permanently clog the briar if you apply the wax once every couple of months?

Do you think this issue was overlooked at finepipes or do you think that they have a different opinion about it? I don't it is even mentioned on the Halcyon website. (Maybe it is and I overlooked it. Wouldn't be the first time.) They seem to have covered so much about their product that you would think there would be a little statement somewhere saying that it does not alter the breathing characteristics of the briar.

I look forward to seeing a little more discussion on this topic. It's a good read for all. Thanks in advance!

 

[bronxbill]

Davey,
Some models of Petersons do have a hard finish, Killarney is one. I don't know if is laquer or not put it is definitely permanent unlike Carnuba. I do have a Killarney that smokes well, but I do notice that the outside of the pipe gets warmer than my other Petes. Also, the Killarneys are dip stained and the stain should be removed from the inside of the bowl before break in IMHO. Hope this helps

 

[howellhandmade]

...no finish is truly impermeable, which I say as a bamboo fly rod maker who earnestly desires an impermeable finish.

Are you the same Jack Howell who wrote "The lovely reed", the guide to building bamboo fly rods?

Busted. Still working on reprinting it.

Regarding pipe finishes, the curious might be interested in Trever Talbert's blog, where I think he addressed the subject of finishes a while ago. Without a control of some kind, it's hard to have an experiment. Expectations can sway results wildly. Mind, I have no interest in the new waxes and am not defending them.

Let's say you have a pipe that is varnished. I don't think that kind of finish looks very good, and perhaps you agree. You don't like the way it smokes very much, either. You hear or read of someone's experience removing the varnish from a pipe where the resulting nude smoked better. Laboriously, you remove the varnish, working through various grades of sandpaper until you arrive at a satin finish. "Beautiful!" you think, having done a not inconsequential part of the work that actually goes into making a pipe. Where the pipe used to stick in your fingers like bare feet on a gym floor, it now feels smooth and cool as a river rock. You can see the grain now, for better or for worse, but having discovered that grain yourself, you find infinitely more interest in the most bald or wild pattern than you did in the varnish.

Does the pipe smoke better? Need one ask? Is the pipe smoked with more care? Is it regarded with more fondness? Is it given the second, third, and fourth chance to succeed that one would give one's own child? Well, perhaps not, but quite probably so -- it is only human nature. However, it is unproven, because of the personal involvement in the experiment, that the pipe was objectively improved by removing the varnish. It may feel cooler -- I don't own any glossy pipes, but could believe that they would feel a little hotter than a satin pipe for the same reason that a rusticated pipe feels much cooler. I doubt that it will *be* cooler, however, given the same tobacco at the same humidity, the precisely same packing, the same light, the same pace of smoking, the same environmental temperature and humidity, the same mood, the same events leading up, the same thoughts . . . you see where it leads.

Certainly it does seem that some pipes feel hotter to the touch than others, and I attribute much of this to the wood. Some pieces of briar insulate better than others. That doesn't mean the pipe smokes poorly, given the proper attention. Every smoke is its own event, though, and sometimes the pipe gets more blame or more credit than it deserves.

To wrap this up, if you fear that using a particular product on the outside of your pipe will degrade the quality of your smoke, it probably will. Finish? I'd strip an Aldo Velani, but not a Peterson.

Jack

 

[jhuggett]

Holy Crap! I just googled your book Jack and the original prints are selling for like $350 bucks!!! Screw investing in tobacco, I'm going to buy up a bunch of your books on the next edition. :lol:

 

[Puff Daddy]

Busted. Still working on reprinting it.

Very cool! I look forward to the re-issue! I'm not a builder but am a cane enthusiast - I have a couple of production rods and am looking at maybe picking up one of AJ Thramers Payne 102L reproductions this summer. I'd love to see some of your work, do you still build for sale, and if so do you have a website for the rods?