The Cost of Pipe Tobacco and Cigars

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alfredo_buscatti

alfredo_buscatti

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There's a fine documentary, about hour-long, on Cuban cigars. It looks old, but it was educative to the extent that I finally got an idea of why cigars are so expensive. In a word, the tobacco cultivation, even before curing/storing/aging, takes a lot of work. In an acre field there might be 50 workers pruning, harvesting leaves, hoeing and weeding in any one of these phases. Then if they have to put cheesecloth over the plants, that's another step. So from planting seed to the cigar to be sold, there may be 50? steps.

I don't know this for a fact but pipe tobacco must require a similar amount of care. The only thing different is that it doesn't have to be rolled.

I must be missing something as the cost is so different. I know that cigars have more of a markup, but from what I've been told it's not that much more, maybe 15%.

Can you explain this?
 
alfredo_buscatti":olo0ssw6 said:
There's a fine documentary, about hour-long, on Cuban cigars. It looks old, but it was educative to the extent that I finally got an idea of why cigars are so expensive. In a word, the tobacco cultivation, even before curing/storing/aging, takes a lot of work. In an acre field there might be 50 workers pruning, harvesting leaves, hoeing and weeding in any one of these phases. Then if they have to put cheesecloth over the plants, that's another step. So from planting seed to the cigar to be sold, there may be 50? steps.

I don't know this for a fact but pipe tobacco must require a similar amount of care. The only thing different is that it doesn't have to be rolled.

I must be missing something as the cost is so different. I know that cigars have more of a markup, but from what I've been told it's not that much more, maybe 15%.

Can you explain this?
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Growing the various varieties of tobacco are similar but the cultivation of prime cigar 'baccy is DIFFERENT than what's done for pipe tobacco or cig 'baccy so it's ALWAYS been more expensive than the others. Not much but Conneticut wrapper leaf is grown in the US with the filler leaf coming from the Carribeon and Africa. The additional factor is the "IN" thing about cigars so there is much MORE percentage in retail mark-up!  :twisted: 
 
You can buy good cigars at a reasonable price. You're buying an "experience" and there's a high demand.

That's another reason why I like pipes. I don't feel bad if I have to dump some dottle. Returning to smoke a $10+ cigar is just sadness.

Growing tobacco is hard work and is a full time job. Day and night and no shortcuts. Getting that pretty wrapper to look so pretty costs a pretty penny.
 
A pipe is just as savory as a cigar, and cigars are overpriced; that's a fact of life. All I know is that I love cigars, too, and if I can't smoke a good one once a week I don't like it.
 
I smoke pipes liberally and cigars sparingly. I enjoy them both equally, but budget dictates.
 
I am given to understand that cigar tobacco also undergoes a much more laborious fermentation/ageing process than other types of tobacco. Requiring frequent stacking, unstacking, and restacking of the fermenting piles. Trying to maintain a certain temperature and that overshooting it by just a few degrees is grounds for discarding an entire pile. Cigar tobaccos can also be aged for 5-9 years as well which requires space and a good deal of tied up inventiry. Whereas pipe tobacco is usually just dried to a certain point and bailed for storage. Much less labor required as leaves do not need to be whole or blemish free either. Perique on the other hand is seriously labor intensive and has a much higher price accordingly. Just a few thoughts on the subject.

Jim
 
from Cigar.com

"Fermentation – the act of releasing ammonia from tobacco leaves using moisture and extreme temperatures.

To ferment tobacco, the leaves are stacked 4 to 6 feet high in pilones (piles), moistened, and then allowed to rise in temperature. Temperature is the most important part of this process, and may reach 140 degrees. Temperature is constantly observed and regulated, while the leaves are re-stacked to ensure even distribution until fermentation comes to an end naturally. During the fermentation process, the leaves emit ammonia and other compounds like sugar and sap, which come to the surface and create rich, mellow, and smooth flavors. The leaves also become significantly darker in color.

Fermentation explains how a natural leaf becomes maduro, naturally. By introducing the leaves to more or longer fermentation processes, a maker can create a darker and richer leaf. Some manufacturers will restack their pilones as many as 10-12 times.

The extent of the fermentation process is solely based on the cigar maker's preference for each particular type of leaf. From start to finish, this process could take as little as a month, or last up to 3 years, sometimes longer! There is no set rule. But, rest assured, most of today's top manufacturers properly ferment their tobacco leaves to ensure an optimum cigar experience."

__________

So huffelpuff, from what you're saying and what this exerpt says, the handling, aging and storing of cigar tobacco really jacks the price up. That's another 5-10 people involved in another 10? steps. That is a lot more labor.

I get the reason for the hefty prices.
 
I never really thought about it to be frank, I have only ever tried those nasty cheap high street cigars and in all seriousness cannot see why anyone would 'want' to smoke those god awful nasty vile things. They taste bad, they stink and absolutely nothing about smoking them was enjoyable, could be that smoking a more expensive cigar is a whole new experience, I don't know and never will as the expense puts them way out of my reach, but if they are no better than those horrid things on sale in supermarkets then I have missed out on nothing and shall go forward with a wry smile on my face when I see the price of some cigars. Of course if I am totally wrong then I shall have to content myself with 'ignorance can indeed be bliss'.
 
Imagine the labor involved turning a pile of tobacco 10 L X 10 D X 6 H (made up these dimensions) 10 - 12 times. From what I've read the pilone managers develop a kind of sixth sense to let them know when to do this; if they wait too long the core of the pilone literally turns to goo as it is the hottest. I'm thinking that the core is most insulated from the environmental temperature and that the heat produced by fermentation is most readily held in it. But I wish some science guru would respond to the concept of heat in pilones.

Briarspirit, it sounds like you have smoked very cheap cigars. But a good cigar, according to me:), is not only well-blended but also well-aged. The Don Pepin Original is both, but better tobacco is to be had in the recent geographically released Montecristo New York and Chicago, in Oliva Master Blends 3, Liga Privada T52 and #9, etc. The DP is about $8 for a single while these others are more like $12.00 - $14.00. However beware that if you smoke enough of the latter and must always mind the budget, you'll train your palate accordingly, and lesser cigars like Torano and Perdomo won't be able to keep up; you'll develop a palate that overshoots what for you would be a more comfortable price.

Smoke less, smoke up. There's a lot of guys who will talk about the Cohiba Behike, having smoked them. How else would they do so?
 
alfredo_buscatti":kyizg19q said:
Briarspirit, it sounds like you have smoked very cheap cigars. But a good cigar, according to me:), is not only well-blended but also well-aged. The Don Pepin Original is both, but better tobacco is to be had in the recent geographically released Montecristo New York and Chicago, in Oliva Master Blends 3, Liga Privada T52 and #9, etc. The DP is about $8 for a single while these others are more like $12.00 - $14.00. However beware that if you smoke enough of the latter and must always mind the budget, you'll train your palate accordingly, and lesser cigars like Torano and Perdomo won't be able to keep up; you'll develop a palate that overshoots what for you would be a more comfortable price.

Smoke less, smoke up. There's a lot of guys who will talk about the Cohiba Behike, having smoked them. How else would they do so?
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Heya Buddy, I was with you right up to 'recent geographically' then you did a massive 'fly-by', totally over my head mate, I have no idea what that means but yeah, I have only ever smoked the sort of cigars where you get like 5 or six thin cigars in a flat box for around £4 or so. I have seen some chaps smoking big ol'cigars and they do look like they are enjoying them, I just assumed they were mad or something.  :lol!: 
 
BriarSpirit a good cigar will have an excellent range of flavors much like a good pipe. They can be sweet, sour, creamy, and so on. They do cost a lot, but I still smoke 5-10 a year. Mostly when I am away from home as they are very convenient.
 
Some years back I read a peer reviewed journal article about the acquisition of fine motor control. Interestingly, cigar rollers were used as one example. Long story short the authors stated it took five years +/- of 40 hour weeks to achieve base line skills to cobble up a well constructed cigar. I would assume that is 5 years of supervised learning on the job not just being present for 5 years.
GL Pease stated that nearly all smoking tobaccos are treated and or cured in some manner. Pipe tobaccos are usually machine cut. Cigar rolling involves far more than the simple layering of fillers and wrappers in other than a machine rolled cigar.
Market price is determined by a constellation of factors. The easiest to itemize is cost of materials. Cobs are crucibles for tobacco burning just as high cost pipe furniture is. Function determines form. After that only you decide what value you are willing to pay for.
Shopping is an acquired skill as well...

 
Briarspirit, it sounds like you have smoked very cheap cigars. But a good cigar, according to me:), is not only well-blended but also well-aged. The Don Pepin Original is both, but better tobacco is to be had in the recent geographically released Montecristo New York and Chicago, in Oliva Master Blends 3, Liga Privada T52 and #9, etc. The DP is about $8 for a single while these others are more like $12.00 - $14.00. However beware that if you smoke enough of the latter and must always mind the budget, you'll train your palate accordingly, and lesser cigars like Torano and Perdomo won't be able to keep up; you'll develop a palate that overshoots what for you would be a more comfortable price.

Hi Kirk,

Geographically released refers to the cigar's original release only in New York; it was then released in Chicago, due to its success.
The Don Pepin Original has good tobacco, but beginning with Oliva Master Blends 3, the aging in these cigars is pronounced.
Like wine, cigars can be had in all price ranges. If for example you can only comfortably afford bottles that cost $20.00 but then start buying $30.00 bottles, you will destroy your ability to appreciate the former as your new point of reference is the latter.
Torano and Perdomo are my examples of $20.00 bottles.

Hope this helps! Mike

 
Ah, if only cost were the index of honest pricing. My neighbor is a regional wine distributer with some considerable experience and education. He emphatically states that while certain wines can be relied on for quality at a particular price point the rest is chaos and entropy.
I have found fabulous wine buys at Trader Joe's and I will also pay through the nose of my wallet for the occasional single malt that blows my skirt up. But I won't assume that because I pay more I will get more of anything.


 
Ryepipe":2d5sw9g3 said:
Ah, if only cost were the index of honest pricing. My neighbor is a regional wine distributer with some considerable experience and education. He emphatically states that while certain wines can be relied on for quality at a particular price point the rest is chaos and entropy.
I have found fabulous wine buys at Trader Joe's and I will also pay through the nose of my wallet for the occasional single malt that blows my skirt up. But I won't assume that because I pay more I will get more of anything.
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Too true for most products.
 
monbla256":hkjzuyl7 said:
The additional factor is the "IN" thing about cigars so there is much MORE percentage in retail mark-up!  :twisted: 
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That's always been my assumption...but it really is just an assumption, though. It seems to me, based on experiences in smoke shops and talking with a wide range of pipe and cigar smokers, that the "lifestyle" factor comes into play. This is NOT to say that many cigar smokers like to smoke cigars because they love cigars, their nuances, and are genuinely interested in the tobacco leaf...but a good many seem to be equally interested in what being a "cigar guy" says about them. I'm trying to to cast a wide net here, so I hope it doesn't come across that way.
 
In February of 2000 I spent 2 days with Carlos Fuente Jr in the Dominican Republic and he spent the entire time taking me through the various factories, the Opus X farm, the storage facilities where he stores all his leaf that is aging, the box factory where all the boxes are made, the rolling rooms for all the different brands, the aging rooms for all the cigars that are all ready rollled, every part of his operation I was able to see and the amount of people he employs is staggering. I believe he told me at that time he employed 2500 people. The amount of hands that touch a cigar before they get to us is incredible. If he could not have his factories in a third world country where the labor costs are what they are and he had to have his factories in the US, a 5 dollar cigar would cost 30.00.

I have been on a private tour of the Cohiba factory in Cuba as that factory is not open to the public like the Partagas factory is as I went to both and again the amount of hands that touches a cigar before we smoke them is staggering. Cigar mfgs who are not the top of the line companies like Fuente are not getting rich. Fuente makes good money because he has his own leaf, his own factories, his own storage facilities to age the tobacco, the rooms to age the rolled cigars, all of these things are the reason a company like Fuente makes money. I can say this, the quality control in a Cuban cigar factory is nothing like it is at Fuente. You never get plugged Fuente's but you can get entire boxes of Cohiba Lancero's that are completely plugged, I have seen it with my own eyes. At the Cuban factories there is no incentive to do a good job where at Fuente, the quality control is bordering on fanatical.
One thing I do recommend, never smoke a fresh Opus X off the rolling table first thing in the morning, it is worse than smoking Irish Flake first thing on an empty stomach.

One of the coolest things was sitting on the veranda at the Opus X farm drinking strong coffee and smoking an Opus X Serie 2 that had been aged for years.

Another cool thing from that trip was Carlito made a cigar specifically for me. I told him my favorite shape was the Lancero and that a Don Carlos Lancero would be an incredible smoke as the wrapper to filler ratio would be killer and since the Don Carlos wrapper is made from their finest African Cameroon wrappers, the cigar would be a winner. So at the Cigar Family Celebration of 2002, Carlito handed me my creations, the Don Carlos Lancero and it was incredible. If you can ever find one, go for it as you will be amazed at the flavor of that cigar.

I have no knowledge as to how a pipe tobacco company works so I don't know if they are making good money or not. If it is anything like the cigar industry which I believe it is, then only the companies with deep pockets are making some good coin. The amount of labor involved in creating a blend or in storing and aging pipe tobacco has to be as expensive as cigars. Hell just the stripping of the leaves and hanging them to dry is extremely labor intensive. Then making the stacks of tobacco to ferment it and turning the stacks costs a ton. The small little camp fires to add the smokiness to a Latakia must be real labor intensive From what I have read about Perique and the process of making it makes it a very expensive tobacco which is why so little is used in a blend. .
 
Very informative post Cgrmaster, thank you. There are several YouTube etc entries of MacBaren and others on their production processes. Proper aging is nearly always a plus with the exception of pipe blends that contain primarily burley or only burley as I have read Russ O. of Hearth and Home blog about.
Other than Steve Books I am not aware of any blenders that specifically designate and describe their pipe tobaccos as aged blends.
We might notice that a cellered/stashed away trove has improved as a consequence of aging.
Any readers here aware of pipe blends that tout aging as a special attribute?
 
When it comes to pipe tobacco, if I understand what I have read correctly, will be aged prior to being put into a blend. Similar to cigars, you will have two different aging processes. There is the process of aging the whole leaf tobacco prior ro blending, and the act of aging the mixture after blending. I am pretty sure that I read an article from GL Pease's site stating the most cigar whole leaf is aged 1 - 2 years before being rolled where as most whole leaf pipe tobacco is aged for 4 - 5 years before becomming a blend.
 
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