Watches

[mejoshee]

I've been looking into watches recently since I'm trying to grow up and be a real boy. I'm not all that into men's accessories and have subsisted on Casio since I was a kid. As of writing this, the most expensive watch I've owned is the one on my wrist at a whopping $200. 

I have a friend who was getting me started on researching some automatic models that might be appealing to me. I like nice things if I think they are practical too. He recommended the Omega Speedmaster or Rolex Oyster along those lines. I thought $2-3k would be more than reasonable for a quality/luxury automatic watch, but sadly the budget was severely diminished by my wife once I showed her the going prices online.

As SWMBO is probably right in the long run, I decided I would be more than happy with a mid- to upper-range Citizen Eco-Drive closer to the $500 range (or at least <<$1k). After much shopping around online, I decided I didn't want a tachymeter model, but there aren't many that are nice looking (to me), with chrono and sapphire glass, with all the other features I want. The Citizen search filtering on the website is pretty terrible and you can't sort certain features like sapphire vs. mineral glass, dive bezel, etc. It just either has it or it doesn't. I spent the last week sifting through models and cross-checking availability for retailers that had models in-store.

At this point, I've arrived on this particular piece from the signature collection, the BL5440-58E:

I don't see many reviews online, especially with regards to the features and functionality, but generally everyone says the fit & finish are much better than the price point belies.What're your thoughts?

I also don't know too much about how strict Citizen is with their warranties. I want to make sure I get one no problem, but this means I'd have to pay a higher in-store price than from somewhere like ebay. I've read in some places that Citizen will generally not warranty an online purchase and definitely not one from ebay. Any personal experience here?

 

[Bullwinkle]

I just checked, this particular model is $693 everywhere.  Amazon and eBay and places in-between.  can you imagine their dealers squealing if they honored warranty on eBay purchases? frankly Amazon w/no tax and free shipping and super customer service is where I would go.

 

[mejoshee]

I just checked, this particular model is $693 everywhere.  Amazon and eBay and places in-between.  can you imagine their dealers squealing if they honored warranty on eBay purchases? frankly Amazon w/no tax and free shipping and super customer service is where I would go.

I haven't read consistent reports about Citizen honoring warranty for Amazon purchases. This is my concern with them, but I'm also trying to determine if the warranty is something I can get by without.

It's a matter of gambling a few hundred against another $100-200 to see if repairs will be necessary in the future. There are I'm sure some stores that can offer extended separate warranties, but I couldn't get the 5-yr outright.

If I take it to a authorized service center under warranty, would I still have to pay anything for any repairs/maintenance?

 

[Bullwinkle]

go to the watch on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-BL5440-58E-Signature-Collection-Chronograph/dp/B007X5CDNM and click the 'Warranty: Citizen 5-year warranty' button.  you might also want to read about a special 10% off.

I don't understand the gambling a few hundred $$ where have you found it cheaper then $693?

 

[Puff Daddy]

Citizen makes a nice watch bracelet, the fit and finish of their watches is good. I've owned a couple of their divers. Two things stick out to me regarding their higher end watches, especially the chronos. The subdials can be awfully hard to read, very small. I wanted a skyhawk for some time and then when I tried one on in a shop it was terribly difficult to see all the functions without reading glasses on. Unlike the Omega Speedmaster which has a relatively uncluttered easy to read set of subdials, the Citizen was very cluttered and very difficult to read. The second thing is, I personally have a problem paying that kind of coin for a quartz watch. Quartz movements are cheap. With a $700 Citizen you are paying for jewelry, and they're really not that special compared to the other boutique quartz dress watches.

There is another option to consider. Being an active young man, a stylish automatic dive watch would be quite cool to wear, and Seiko makes some that are both rugged and dressy enough to wear at work. For $500-$600 you can wear an actual mechanical machine on your wrist with some diving heritage behind it. Take a look at the Seiko Sumo, very classy watch. There is also a German company named Steinhart that makes a superb Rolex Submariner homage with a swiss eta movement for around $500.

The watchuseek forums will give you plenty of eye candy and feedback to your questions.

 

[Puff Daddy]

Seiko Sumo (sbdc001)

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[monbla256]

The 5 Eco-Drives that I have have ALL been FLAWLESS working watches that I've NEVER had ANY problems with and they ALL keep excellent time !!
If you are wanting a LARGE mechanical watch with LOT"S of presence on your wrist AND that is a virtually INDESTRUCTIBAL watch look for a SEIKO 6309 Diver. Here's one I've worn for over 30 years with only two cleaning/servicings.



My favorite Eco-Drive, my Citizen Gmt BJ9031-58E - 1 :



And if you want to go for dressy and the MOST ACCURATE watch made spring for the extra bucks ( a little over $1,000.00) for the Citizen Chronomaster, here's mine I've had for 9 years :



You really can't go wrong with just about ANY watch made by either company!! :twisted:

 

[Stick]

Another Seiko fan here Josh. I believe every gentleman should have a fine mechanical timepiece and a fine ink pen. Of course, Rolex and Omegas are the wanton desire of most however, after doing a lot of research, I plumped for a Seiko 5 divers style timepiece; mechanical automatic, satisfyingly chunky, superb bracelet for the money, excellent movement, robust, and of course accurate. The Seiko Sumo above posted by Puff Daddy is a superb example of what they produce. Go for the 200m versions as these will have a screw in crown; a true sign of a diver's watch. Monbla's timepiece is evidence of their reliability and shouldn't be regarded as unusual. Interestingly, Seiko produce all their components, even the oils, on their own site. Now there's not many manufacturers (if any) who do that. As an aside, I believe that Citizen and Pulsar are part of the Seiko group. Good luck!

 

[Growley]

I've always liked the idea of the Eco-drive, and I LOVE watches. For me, one of the best watches you can get...not necessarily the classiest though, is the G-Shock. I know...I know... I might as well have just recommended a Swatch Watch   

But I love the Atomic, Solar Powered versions. They're kind of the modern Eco-drive in some aspects. They never need winding, and they always keep perfect time, calibrating several times throughout the day and night. I'm not comparing these watches to high end watches. They don't come with built in prestige, but they will last you forever and never need maintenance.

I've had one for years. I've never set the time on it, and I've never replaced the battery.

Here's one that really does it for me: MTGS1000D-1A

I'm not saying you should go buy one of these, because watches are like pipes and you've just got to get the one that really does it for you.

I guess I'm just plugging G-Shock...and now I want another.  

 

[Puff Daddy]

I wear a solar atomic G Shock at work and it gets beat the hell up. 3 years, no problems.

 

[Growley]

I wear a solar atomic G Shock at work and it gets beat the hell up. 3 years, no problems.

That's a nice one!

 

[monbla256]

I've always liked the idea of the Eco-drive, and I LOVE watches. For me, one of the best watches you can get...not necessarily the classiest though, is the G-Shock. I know...I know... I might as well have just recommended a Swatch Watch   

But I love the Atomic, Solar Powered versions. They're kind of the modern Eco-drive in some aspects. They never need winding, and they always keep perfect time, calibrating several times throughout the day and night. I'm not comparing these watches to high end watches. They don't come with built in prestige, but they will last you forever and never need maintenance.

I've had one for years. I've never set the time on it, and I've never replaced the battery.

Here's one that really does it for me: MTGS1000D-1A

I'm not saying you should go buy one of these, because watches are like pipes and you've just got to get the one that really does it for you.

I guess I'm just plugging G-Shock...and now I want another.  

G-Shocks are definitely tough watches but they don't have the same type of photovoltaic cell to recharge the batteries as the Eco-Drives and are dependendant on your geographical location as to receiving the atomic signal from Denver correctly. I had one about 5 years ago and never could get it to keep accurate time so I gave it to a friend who lived up in Colorado and he's loved it ever since  :twisted: :twisted: 

 

[Puff Daddy]

I disagree. In my experience the G Shock solar recharging system is every bit as good as the Citizen, I've owned both. They may be a little different, but they both work wonderfully. I bought my G Shock new 3 or so years ago and even though I will put it away in a drawer for weeks at a time in the winter when I'm not working, it holds a charge and recharges extremely Fast. It's never fallen into a low charge state. I'm in California with 2 mountain ranges between me and the atomic station in Denver but my watch receives every night without issue. I think it's a matter of putting it near an east (for me) facing window at night. The solar charging technology has been well refined over the years across several makers, no longer a unique-to-one-brand feature. I do remember that Seiko had early issues with their photovoltaic sensors not charging well and their batteries pooping out after a couple of years, but now even the cheaper components of this type do a very good job.

The next watch of this type I'd like to get is the new Casio Protrek PRW3000. Nice big easy to read display, much thinner than the old Protreks. These watches are pretty cool beans. Still, my favorites are automatics and if I had to choose only 1 watch it would probably be an automatic diver. My everyday watch, the watch that is on my wrist when I'm not working or dressed up a bit (Hamilton Jazzmaster cushion for that) is a Seiko orange monster. I love that watch.

 

[riff raff]

I haven't popped for an automatic but these two quartz watches are my faithful companions

My wife bought me this Accutron Silver Eagle for our 25th wedding anniversary.  Accutron was spun off from Bulova for a couple of years and were Swiss-made during this time.  It looks like Bulova has now reacquired the name.  I wanted a chronograph with a dial I could actually read and at the time, this was one of few available in my price range.   It originally had an alternating brushed/polished band, but I polished the bracelet a few years ago.



I've owned this Seiko 200m divers watch for 25 years.  It has become my "beater watch" and doesn't get treated kindly (snorkeling, car, motorcycle, yard work etc.)  I've tried to locate a new bezel, but they are no longer made in that size and most parts watches are just as beat.  I continue to search.

 

[monbla256]

My favorite Seiko chrono that I wear at least once a week, a 6139- 6002 Pepsi. It's the blue dialed version of the famous yellow dialed "Pogue Chrono" that Colnel Pogue wore in space, the first chrono worn in space back in '69.



and the watch I wear probably more than others, my Rolex Date Just I bought when my daughter was born back in '72, one of the type of watches Rolex built their reputation on. It's only been serviced twice in the 42 years I've had it and still keeps time to chronometer standards ( as do many of my Seiko auto's as well,  :twisted: ). It's been everywhere with me in this time and is just one GOOD, TOUGH WATCH  :twisted: :twisted: 



There are LOTS of GOOD watches out there from a variety of GOOD makers. You need to check your pocketbook and style needs and purchase what suits YOU   :twisted: :twisted:

 

[mejoshee]

Went into the nearby mall on Friday to check Zales and others for the particular model Citizen (heh) that I had in mind. I tried on a few of the same series, different colors/bands. I liked the weight and size of the one I originally posted, but for whatever reason couldn't convince my wife of the same aesthetic. :roll:

Too many brands to look into. I did look further at some automatic Seikos, esp. the sumo and related dive watches. The Premier perpetual calendar options look nice as well. But something about them comes across as cheap to me for the price range I'm looking at. Probably because I'm looking at the cheaper line?

Of course I also had to look up Steinhart, Hamilton, etc. They all seem to have good/great prices for an entry-level genuine Swiss automatic movement lineup with sapphire. This may be the direction I take, though I unfortunately can't try Steinhart stateside.

The Bulova Precisionist series is just too darn big. And I don't really care for the nuts on the case.

I stumbled across Longines, particularly the Hydroconquest line. It seems to encapsulate everything I would like and seems to get great reviews. The weak points that people gripe about are the pins vs. screws for the bracelet, the lousy lume, and the fact that they're trying, just like so many others at that price point and below, to recapitulate a Seamaster or Oyster. Nonetheless, I feel like I'm most likely going to go with an automatic chrono HC. Either this or this.

Now, what is generally good practice to buy a used watch? Is it a bad idea? Is it acceptable if you save a "significant" amount for a good+ condition even if it means you'll pay more on the back-end for out-of-warranty servicing?

 

[Bullwinkle]

Now, what is generally good practice to buy a used watch? Is it a bad idea? Is it acceptable if you save a "significant" amount for a good+ condition even if it means you'll pay more on the back-end for out-of-warranty servicing?

imo, unless you are an expert it's a great way to get screwed. if you're thinking the 'bay or other auction type sites. there's a watch geek forum where you can hang around and pick up a lot of info quickly.

 

[mejoshee]

imo, unless you are an expert it's a great way to get screwed.  if you're thinking the 'bay or other auction type sites.  there's a watch geek forum where you can hang around and pick up a lot of info quickly.  

Let's make 2 different assumptions here:

1. I don't get screwed (yeah right...): Is it a savings to get a watch that is reasonably good condition but eventually will need service out of warranty (2yrs from Longines)? Will I be screwed then? Will it cost me big $$ to service/fix it 5 years down the line, something which I'll need to do anyway? For example, for the all-black one (right photo), these Longines go for ~$1700 @ jomashop.com (probably $100-200 cheaper elsewhere) or only $750 on recent ebay sales. Is it worth the $1000 for the warranty? I understand that this brand may suffer more from resale depreciation than, say, Rolex or Breitling, but those are out of my budget and everything I read generally says Longines is a good value even with the depreciation. So never mind reselling it since I would like to keep it til it breaks, if possible. Of course this is hoping the reason it breaks is preventable.

2. I DO get screwed, or at least run 100% chance of that happening: I buy it new from an authorized retailer and pay the difference of maybe $300-500, or even $1000 more. I get the warranty from day 1, but am also out more $$ that I could have used to purchase a second lesser watch, maybe a quartz version. If the watch were completely dysfunctional because I thought I could get away with a used one, how much would I be out of luck for the worst-case scenario shy of destruction that requires complete overhaul?

 

[riff raff]

I like both of those Longines!

 

[monbla256]

Remember, a chronograph such as the ones you are interested in, have 7 movements in them and when needing service, ALL of the movements are attended to, I have used two folks over the past 15 years to get all my watches serviced, for my non Rolex watches I've used IWW:  http://internationalwatchworks.com/ and for my Rolexes I've used Bob Ridley at Watchmakers International :  http://watchmakers.com/www/servicesRolex.html. Both are GOOD GOOD people and are NOT discount operations but rather do quality work at market prices.
As for used/vintage vs new, stay away from e-prey unless you KNOW the seller and IMHO, you'd do better with a new watch bought from a recognized dealer and make use of the makers warranty for any work, then when the warranty goes away, use one of these folks.
 As far as servicing, I've serviced most of my mechanical watches in 10/15 year intervals. I bought all my Eco-Drives over 10 years ago now and have Never had to get them serviced!! Most quartz watches are virtually service free except for battery changes unless you beat the hell out of 'em, but mechanical watches need more care.
Average non=warranty work will be around $600.00 for a Rolex ( clean and adjust) and around $395.00 for chronographs by others ( mechanical movements) . If you want cheap timekeeping, use your cell phone  :twisted: :twisted: