Aesthetics and Grain

[Amenhotep04]

Hey, back to a similar theme for me. I wrote one of the Italian pipe makers this morning. I was asking why there was such a difference in prices of his pipes (over ten times as much). He wrote back immediately, said that it had nothing to do with the quality of the smoke, nor the quality of the pipe, but simply the beauty of the grain. That from one piece of briar that he would make two pipes, where one would cost around $100 and the other about $1200. All had to do with the beauty of the grain. Of course, the name of the maker certainly comes into play.

Nevertheless, if the smoke is the same, coming from the same pipe maker, the same piece of briar, why would we be so willing to spend that extra money?

I'm struggling with this simply because when I enjoy the smoke, the appearance of the pipe isn't that much of a deal for me (with the exception of shape, weight, and I love acrylic stems). Yet, at the same time, if I were to spend $1000 on a pipe, I'd almost prefer to place it in a curio or something like that.

Thoughts?

:farao:

 

[Centurian 803]

While I certainly enjoy the beauty of a pipe with striking grain and am impressed with a bowl that has the same grain all the way around, I choose my pipes by shape and how well they smoke. Would not pay hundreds of dollars extra just to get an impressive grain. I rarely look at a pipe while smoking it. :no:

 

[Amenhotep04]

My feelings at this time as well. If I can get four or five pipes from the same maker, that smoke just as well, even though some may not think they are as aesthetically pleasing makes little difference for me.

Interesting what the market yields however.

 

[Sasquatch]

There's a pretty major difference between the pipe smoker and the pipe collector.

Grain may not make a pipe smoke better, but it certainly can make a pipe look nicer, or be more unique.

Here's an egg done from a very good block, very uniform, no pits. Grain is almost identical on both sides, because the maker took a lot of time to read the block, and generate a shape that would maximize the effect of the grain.

The pipe is not reproducible. It is unique and therefore special. In the eye of the collector, that is.

Grain is almost identical on both sides, and works in perfect harmony with the shape. I could order a hundred blocks and not make another pipe of this shape with grain this cool.

 

[Trout Bum]

I am not much of a grain guy, but there are many who love a nice straight grain. I tend to lean towards blasted pipes, and I also like a well done rustication. If I am correct, I believe that a pipe with uniform grain, especially where the spaces in between each grain is more or less uniform, is more "rare," and more difficult to coax into a shape that takes the best advantage of the uniformity. Does it smoke any better --- no, probably not, at least to me. But it is not as common, and takes a skilled hand, and perhaps more time. There are a lot of smokers who also really like a pipe that sports a lot of birds eye... and there are also a number of smokers who claim to be able to distinguish between not just smooth and rusticated pipes (as far as taste) but also between cross grain and flame grain and vertical grained pipes. Though there may be something to this, I for one do not have a sensitive enough palate to distinguish such subtleties. Maybe in twenty more years of piping...

At any rate, prices only reflect what the market will bear, so that simply tells us that there are plenty of fans of straight grained pipes out there who are willing to pay more for that kind of pipe.

Sasquatch -- a perfect example of grain working in conjunction with shape to maximize cohesiveness and flow. Sweet pipe, mister!

 

[Amenhotep04]

Great looking pipe. Is that the difference in the pipe smoker versus the collector? The collector is buying a piece of art, that just happens to smoke well, while the pipe smoker operates under different criteria?

Your distinction is worth noting, but at the same time, the collector isn't collecting for monetary investment, but instead of emotional appeasement. No?

The pipe has a meaning far different than simply the smoke. It's all the many qualities that go into the making of the pipe. The craftsmanship, the dedication, and the willingness to search these things out.

This is one of the reasons why I love reading your posts Sasquatch. You're an artisan and a teacher. Not just a pipe smoker. I've learned more from your posts in three months, than I learned smoking a pipe by myself for ten years.

:farao:

 

[Sasquatch]

The forums did the same for me - pushed me further and faster both as a smoker and a craftsman, than I ever would have managed alone.


I don't know what the exact criteria is between pipe collector and pipe smoker. I'm a bit of both. If I had a beautiful pipe that didn't smoke well, it wouldn't be worth anything to me, and I smoke and gently promote Mario Grandis as being a very worthy inexpensive pipe, even though they are not at all "collector grade" for the most part.

I suspect that pipe collectors vary in their reasononings for buying what they buy. I think they have to like the pipe, by and large. I don't know too many people who buy a Joe X just because it's a Joe X. Some like the perfection of line (and hopefully mechanics) in a handmade, well crafted pipe. Some like the uniqueness, or the idea that there is a single man behind the pipe, not some faceless brand name. Then you get into things where people like the briar itself, or the treatment it gets or a particular finish, or whatever. But I think how it looks/feels and how it smokes are still topmost on the list for most people.

We all choose the pipes we choose because we like them. Otherwise, we wouldn't choose them, right? I just think that for the collector it goes a little deeper, a little more obsessive, than that.

 

[Amenhotep04]

The forums did the same for me - pushed me further and faster both as a smoker and a craftsman, than I ever would have managed alone.


I don't know what the exact criteria is between pipe collector and pipe smoker. I'm a bit of both. If I had a beautiful pipe that didn't smoke well, it wouldn't be worth anything to me, and I smoke and gently promote Mario Grandis as being a very worthy inexpensive pipe, even though they are not at all "collector grade" for the most part.

I suspect that pipe collectors vary in their reasononings for buying what they buy. I think they have to like the pipe, by and large. I don't know too many people who buy a Joe X just because it's a Joe X. Some like the perfection of line (and hopefully mechanics) in a handmade, well crafted pipe. Some like the uniqueness, or the idea that there is a single man behind the pipe, not some faceless brand name. Then you get into things where people like the briar itself, or the treatment it gets or a particular finish, or whatever. But I think how it looks/feels and how it smokes are still topmost on the list for most people.

We all choose the pipes we choose because we like them. Otherwise, we wouldn't choose them, right? I just think that for the collector it goes a little deeper, a little more obsessive, than that.

There must be some consistency however with what collectors are looking for. The market value definitely comes into play. The obsession, the PAD definitely comes into play. And certainly the ability to pay top dollar for something is included. If I can spend $1400 on a pipe as easily as I do $150, I would probably do it in a heart beat. And like you, if the pipe didn't smoke well, I'd be a little upset. The Moretti I smoked this morning was better than the Peterson I smoked, but both were enjoyable. The Viprati I'll smoke this afternoon should be somewhere in between. Aesthetically, the Moretti and Viprati are also more appealing, but none of the pipes are what anyone would say are close to perfect or even in the discussion. All three feel pretty good in my hand and in my mouth.

I think communities like this, and the approachability of the makers do more to further the educative necessities to see more in a pipe than the smoke itself. And of course all of this adds to the pipe experience.

 

[Sasquatch]

There are definitely tangible, measureable elements in craftsmanship that "experts" look at - how well certain locutions of the craft are performed on a certain pipe (or more likely, on EVERY pipe) that a certain guy makes. How well does Joe X make form a button, how well does he cut the slot, how well finished is the stem, how well bent (are the lines JUST so) etc. And the "big boys" do it just so on EVERY pipe. Guys talk about bending a stem 2, 3, 5 times before it is JUST right. They talk of removing a few thousandths of an inch here or there. It takes hours. But it shows, to the trained eye. To the untrained eye, a pipe might just "look right". Certainly, when I follow the advice I'm given by guys like Rad or Todd J who are way ahead of me on the curve, the pipes sell immediately, so that tells me that these guys know how to "put it together".

My greatest pleasure is taking someone's idea and crafting a pipe that they are totally happy with. I think it makes the pipe special for them because they get to see it coming along, and have input as to size, shape, color, rustication, etc. It's theirs before it even leaves the shop, and I think that the personal attachment makes it that much more enjoyable. My goal right now is to provide a pipe that smokes as good as anything in anyone's collection, but doesn't cost 1500 dollars. To me, that makes it so the thing will get heavily used, and that's the ultimate appreciation of a pipe. I would love to see pix of pipes I made just filled with cake and scorched to hell and all chewed up. That would make me very happy. The pipe fulfilled it's destiny.

Some day I may make "artier" pipes, but right now, it's hard enough to make a good "regular" pipe.

At the end of the day, a pipe is just a tool for smoking, and if you want a fancy one, that's cool, and if you want a corn-cob, that's cool too.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know where I fall in the equation, but I can surely add my .02.

I still consider myself a smoker, in fact, I'm smoking a dollar torpedo right now. Many think I'm a snob due to some of my high grades.

Really it depends on what you want and like. Years ago I would have said 5 50 dollar pipes is better than say a 250 single pipe. But with so many pipes, I feel the opposite now.

It happened to me with my first Tinsky which I bought for about 150 couple of years ago. I was browsing at Peterson's, Savinelli's, and Stanwells when it arrived. I lit it up and something ticked inside me. I immdediately bought 5 more.

I think it also has to do with luck. I know you guys swear with your Stanwells, KW's, etc, but I didn't have the same experience. I have owned maybe 7 stanwells in my life and other than the 3 I still have, they were not good smokers for me. Most KW's smoke like basketpipes to me, not the occasional good one you get either.

It also helps that I made it to 36 with no kids. I struggled for a good 5 years after my divorce, but then I found myself with money to spend, so why not upgrade my collection?

When I became an American pipe collector that further fueled my last 5 years of PAD. Previously I would allow myself 1 pipe a year or so, would drive up to San Antonio to buy a 37 dollar pipe.


Having said all that, I could have been happy for the rest of my life smoking Savinellis and Peterstons, but I sure am glad I don't have to!

 

[jlong]

Getting to the email reply about the beauty of the grain driving the price up. I would think a chunk of briar with beautiful, artful grain would be much rarer than plain ole any which way grain. The artful grain may very well be 1 in 100 making the briar chunk that much more valuable.

Personally, I stick with pipes in the $50 to $100 range and use them for what they were intended for. I can understand the eye candy factor however and why collectors pay what they pay for high grade pipes.

 

[Puff Daddy]

At about $70 you can get a good serviceable pipe. At about $150 you can get one that someone has given some attention to and that has better than just serviceable engineering and workmanship, and probably a little bling. At about $300 you can get one that was handmade by a craftsman (or craftsmen) that was carefully thought out but may not have the most aesthetically appealing grain or that has some superficial finish flaws (and is usually blasted or rusticated). Beyond that, you are paying for aesthetics, art and reputation. Nothing at all wrong with that, but if you're not into aesthetics, art and reputation, don't let the $$ paid for it bug you. Also, you can pay $$ for aesthetics, art and reputation and not necessarily get a great smoking instrument (the big problem I have with some high grades) but you may get a fantastic smoker for $70. Pipes are individuals, engineering is most important (decent wood too) but even decent engineering plans can be buggered up with slop or construction errors.

I have a few pipes I fell in love with for aesthetic reasons. It doesn't bother me a bit that I paid dearly for them. I also have a few cheapos that smoke wonderfully eventhough they're only modestly appealing, and the ugly buggers don't bother me a bit either. Different strokes......

 

[Smokey Joe]

Since I'm a pipe smoker and not a collector, I never really put much thought into the grain. I believe that if a pipe costs 1000 dollars, based on the rarity of the Briar,it should also have superior smoking characteristics.
I read on another Forum that a guy paid 1500+ for a Kechi Gotah(spelling?) that he was afraid to smoke due to the rarity of the Briar. Well to each his own, but at the end of the day, the pipe is a smoking instrument and that's what I use them for.

 

[wiley coyote]

Some years ago I decided that I would never buy a pipe I would not smoke. I admire high end collectibles, and on occasion I buy them, but only if I will smoke them. I understand buying for purely aesthetic value, for the beauty of the grain or ingenuity of the design, or both. But doing so is not for me. The aesthetic value I care for now is impure, is functionality: form follows function--and all that. Over the years I have slowly eliminated most of the high end collectibles I had at one time (as an undergrad and as a grad student I managed pipes shops, and created a large and quite various collection of high end pipes). I have moved almost entirely into the $100-$200 dollar pipes, often bought for less because bought as estates. All I care about these days is the quality of the smoking.

I do think there is a distinction between pipe smokers and pipe collectors, but the boundary between them is vague. Many on BoB are, I am sure, in the vagueness.