Aged Straight VA Bite

Brothers of Briar

Help Support Brothers of Briar:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

alfredo_buscatti

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
2,217
Reaction score
0
Not really asking for help but instead recounting a tobacco trend.

Not all but most of these 5 y/o tobaccos bite. Mouth chemistry. When I smoked them young no bite.

I guess I'll shoot for 10 years.
 
I thought that was a quality of ALL VA's .......................... :lol:

Gimme Burley !!!
 
While I think that for many tongue bite can be an 'issue' with Virginia Tobaccos (due in large part to high natural sugar content) I think that much of this can be eliminated. Proper packing and smoking technique is generally required. Packed too loosely or too tightly Virginias burn hotter than they normally would. During combustion, often their natural sugars, and the sugars and other flavor enhancers added by the blender can 'caramelize' (think of making candy or using BBQ sauce on the grill) this process adds to the temperatures encountered in smoking a pipe. Puffing cadence (the rate and depth with which one draws on the pipe) often is a contributing factor.

Individual body chemistry also seems to be a factor, some persons by virtue of their own body chemistry just don't do well with certain tobacco types or blends: EG I smoke many Virginia based blends by many many blenders. Blends by Mac Barens just don't perform well for me, in most cases. MacBarens use a combination of casing agents which do not agree with me, while many others smoke them without the tongue I consistently find while trying to enjoy their products.

I often find that with well aged Virginias in general, they just taste so damned good that I find myself puffing along like a freight train, speeding rapidly toward tongue bite from hell. I have to constantly 'check myself' while enjoying Virginias and adjust my smoking cadence frequently.

That said, I defy anyone to 'better' the experience of smoking Samuel Gawith Full Virginia Flake with 8+ years on it. :pipe:
 
smoking any virginia, fresh out of the tin is nuts! air the tin for at least a week then try again. of course be careful not too dry the baccy too much. I find McClellands virginia based blends have to be aired or tongue bite will ensue. Rattrays, f&t, g.l. pease, C&d also benefit from air time. I also find virginia's are best with over ten years on them. for my body chemistry any topping or casing will result in tongue bite. try " airing" . hope this helps.
 
"Tongue Bite" is a complicated phenomenon...

kilted1":nqg6hoce said:
While I think that for many tongue bite can be an 'issue' with Virginia Tobaccos (due in large part to high natural sugar content)
In fact, this is a commonly held belief, but one which is not founded in reality. Truth is, higher sugar content result in a more acidic smoke, which is far less likely to cause tongue bite than the more alkaline smoke from tobaccos with less sugar, especially those with higher percentages of nitrogenous compounds that tend to make the smoke more alkaline. In fact, sugars are often added to tobaccos for the very purpose of smoothing them out. Sugar is not the culprit.

Burley tobacco is an excellent example of the other side of the disk, as it contains almost no sugar, and lots of nicotine (an alkaloid), which, especially if the leaf is immature, will produce a high pH smoke that can be quite irritating. Burleys are either sweetened to mitigate this, or blended with high sugar virginias for the same purpose. There is no tongue bite that could rival what I've experiences smoking straight raw, young burley. An entire circus trainful of fire eaters parading across my tongue in petrol soaked socks would have had a less caustic effect.

Body chemistry plays a huge role in tongue bite. There are tobaccos that friends of mine can smoke day in and day out that, to me, are like sucking on the business end of an oxy-acetylene torch. Conversely, stuff that I enjoy with no ill-effect singes and sears their tongues without mercy. We've all experienced something similar. Reading through tobaccoreviews.com will invariably raise some eyebrows, as ones favourite tobacco is panned for biting like a rabid weasel, whilst another that the reader may find particularly vitriolic is lauded by the reviewer as being smoother than a black velvet rendering of Perry Como.

Much is talked about "tecnhique," but my experience is that smoking rate doesn't make much difference, if any. The stuff that bites me will do so even if barely smoldering, sipped through a CrazyStraw. Packing does seem to make some difference, as a more dense pack results in a more dense smoke. Often, loosely filling a pipe, for me, yields more flavour, and less pain, but if the combination of pipe and tobacco is going to bite, it's going to bite, either like a Piranha or a Great White Shark.

Speaking of pipe and tobacco combinations, the pipe is the one thing that people rarely point to when they discuss bite. Again, my experience is that there are pipes that will turn any tobacco into the brimstone of Dante's Inferno, and others that will render the wildest of feral tobaccos tame and mild mannered. One estate pipe was particularly fitful for me. Nothing was smooth from the thing, though it had smoked for a few years before I got it, and a couple of years by me. I finally ground out the cake, and the maker's bowl coating, and started over. It was like breaking in a brand new pipe, but after a couple dozen bowls, it smoked wonderfully.

Sometimes, it's the particular combination of pipe and tobacco that doesn't work, like the aged Renaissance I'm smoking right now. In this particular GBD, it's a little sharp around the edges. In the Castello I smoked yesterday, it was soft and delicious. But, this pipe works wonders with Piccadilly, so it's not really to blame. Neither is the tobacco. It's just one of those combinations that doesn't work.

Yep. Tongue Bite is complicated...
 
Oh, and, of course, there's the moisture thing...

Too much moisture will result in hot water vapor in the smoke stream. This doesn't cause bite, but it certainly exacerbates the problem by increasing the smoker's sensitivity to the "Chemistry of Bite." This is amplified by the fact that the "steam" that results from the too-wet tobacco dilutes the flavours of the smoke, whilst also making it somewhat more difficult to keep alight, resulting, too often, in the compound problem of the smoker puffing furiously to both get some taste out of the burning mass, and to keep the pipe from going out. Not a Good Thing (TM).
 
I think we sometimes confuse the issue of a pipe/tobacco combination that bites with one that smokes hot.

Is just your tongue burning up or is your whole mouth getting hot?:darklord:

Understanding the difference will help to begin to analyze the causes.

Mike B
 
Even' All, I have also found that "opening up" a pipe will help immensely, Ken. :tongue: :pale: :penguin:
 
Interesting. You say these tobaccos did not bite when young but do bite now that they are 5 years aged. I'd be inclined to think that very little of this has to do with pipe selection, humidity, alignment of the stars or anything other than mouth chemistry, as you pointed out. But I do have a solution for you! I have quite a few large jars full of heavy latakia blends that no longer suit me - SOTE, Old Ironsides, Penzance, etc. - I'll swap you these for your horrible bitey old Virginias :D ;) What are friends for 8)
 
I was digging around a bit yesterday. Came across some tins stashed in one of those zip lock containers. Nice moisture levels. Decided I would smoke some CumberlandX today and got into the Hermit Holidays 2006 blend last evening. Mostly old Virginia's. I had a bit of tongue tingle that I carefully worked around. Several minutes of wonderful bliss, in the zone.

But I have been wondering if, because I smoke so much English and burley blends, if this hasn't complicated my mouth chemistry. I find myself having to be very cautious around Virginia's. Maybe it is the pipes. I may have to form a commission to study this.
 
Greg, your informational posts are always edutional to me. Also, the humorous prose just cracks me up no end. I can use a little lightheartedness in my life right now. Thanks much.

Bruce

Never Forget!

Crap, I still can't spell, not :idea:
 
Interesting timing and great information being shared; much enjoyed, and here is why.

I've long suspected that "bite" beyond the simpler, obvious "bites" caused by too much flame in the bowl with deep puffing, steam from wet materials, and overheating both tobacco and pipe, that it is really a matter of smoke chemistry and the smoker's body-chemistry.

Recently I had been smoking more bowls per day then usual. What with nice weather and some unexpected leisure time, I was able to get in a 4-5 bowls a day for about two weeks. Also, I had been out of the cigar mood since the recent hoklidays and was dedicated exclusively to the pipes. What this did was cause a confrontational chemistry that seemingly impacted my entire mouth, not just the tip or top of my tongue!

Strange, as never was I bitten on tongue before. It seemed that rapid puffing, wet Virginias, or goopy cheaper aromatics had no bite for me. When it did occur it was from excessive, frequent, aggressive puffing, worse than I've ever seen any pipe smoker do!

Tongue bite as you all describe it had been a very rare and not recurring issue for me over the last 25+ years. Now in this recent splurge I found that my mouth was chemically assaulted not from any of those long held causes, but simply an abundance of normally alkaline smoke in the mouth for greater periods of time. A chemical taste was always in the background, tissues seemed irritated, puckered and sensitive to both acid and alkali food and drink. The only involvement of my tongue was the tip seemed to be dried and insensitive to both tastes and touch.

I smoked old comfortable pipes, newish pipes; English, Balkan, burley, Virginias and more! It would seem that once that hidden chemical exposure line had been crossed, I was afflicted and it would take two full days of no smoke to relieve the puckered, irritated feeling that plagued me. No smoking, none and then it was gone, back to normal one morning.

Now things are as before, except I hope I am a wee bit wiser and will not so indulge again.


-- pZ! :tongue:
 
PD, I only smoke blends that contain latakia when it is a junior or equal partner with the other constituent tobaccos. . .but thanks for the offer nonetheless. I think at some point-10 yrs? 15? they will come around, if I'm around.
 
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who disagrees with the meme that tongue bite is caused by technique. "Slow down" seems to be the automatic response when anyone brings up the issue.
 
Got me. I was getting bitten quite regularly by some McClellands before I started Fully rubbing out, letting dry and packing a bit looser than normal. I also tend to smoke Virginias in the longer pipes.....A Savinelli Bing or Clarks fav work the best for me.
But no matter what, MacBaren anything burns me to a cinder.....
 
I was on the same boat as Talon with the Mac B tobaccos ...
But just recently i found a great deal on some bulk Mac B Virgina # 1 at J&R'S in Statesville NC $1.50 per oz buy 5 get oz free i picked up 3 pounds ...
This prompted me to open some of the same tobacco i put down 2 years ago...
What a difference it made smooth as silk not enough nic for me... As with almost all straight Virgina tobaccos you puff them to fast you gonna get bit...
I plan on mixing some lakita in with some to put more spice in it and hoping it give it some more vitamin N... Take Care ( JD )
 
damnyankee":eahfrddr said:
I was on the same boat as Talon with the Mac B tobaccos ...
But just recently i found a great deal on some bulk Mac B Virgina # 1 at J&R'S in Statesville NC $1.50 per oz buy 5 get oz free i picked up 3 pounds ...
This prompted me to open some of the same tobacco i put down 2 years ago...
What a difference it made smooth as silk not enough nic for me... As with almost all straight Virgina tobaccos you puff them to fast you gonna get bit...
I plan on mixing some lakita in with some to put more spice in it and hoping it give it some more vitamin N... Take Care ( JD )
Get a hold of some 5 Brothers or Kendal Kentucy....Thats puts some lead in it's pencil..... :bounce:
 
Are they Mac Barens? These still bite me. They tell me "once you learn how to smoke them.." but why bother? I can smoke other stuff that doesn't bite.

I had a lot of trouble with straight VAs, then I discovered long-stem pipes. Do you own Canadians?

I am now considered a Canadian guy, don't know why since I really only use them for VA's. Smoke plenty of Bulldogs and other pipes.

So I guess, Im recommending a Canadian for VA or long-stemmed pipes.

A buddy from another forum gifted me two tins of aged VAs, reallya ged from 2001 and 2006. Astleys and Laruel flake, respectively. These are heaven, but I hesitate to buy them because I'm not willing to commit 10 years worth of aging when Orlik smokes like a dream right out of the tin.

FVF smokes really well for me too.
 
Texas Outlaw":eq0sfb0p said:
Are they Mac Barens? These still bite me. They tell me "once you learn how to smoke them.." but why bother? I can smoke other stuff that doesn't bite.
Amen brother! Load up a bowl of Walnut and keep on truck'n with a cool dry smoke! :D :D :D
 
Top