Artisan, or Pipemaker?

[eklektos44]

What is the difference between an Artisan and a Pipe maker for you? Is it the quality, styling, price, number of pipes in a year, that they're handmade, or something else? Thoughts?

 

[riff raff]

I supposed that an elevated skill level might earn the term "artisan" but to me, they are synonymous.

 

[eklektos44]

I supposed that an elevated skill level might earn the term "artisan" but to me, they are synonymous.  

Well an artisan is certainly a pipe maker,. But I was more curious about what people thought were the characteristics that separated an artisan from just a pipemaker. Skill would be a factor.

 

[monbla256]

I supposed that an elevated skill level might earn the term "artisan" but to me, they are synonymous.  

Well an artisan is certainly a pipe maker,. But I was more curious about what people thought were the characteristics that separated an artisan from just a pipemaker. Skill would be a factor.

Are you using the term "pipemaker" to designate a firm or worker at a pipe making company as opposed to an individual who works at making pipes alone in their "studio"? You really have not defined the differences you seem to imply in your terms! :twisted: :twisted: To me, if I work in the Savinelli factory I'm a "pipemaker" and if I work making pipes by myself I probably would call myself an "Artison" strictly for marketing and pricing reasons as opposed to just a "pipemaker" though that is what I am :twisted: :twisted:

 

[eklektos44]

I supposed that an elevated skill level might earn the term "artisan" but to me, they are synonymous.  

Well an artisan is certainly a pipe maker,. But I was more curious about what people thought were the characteristics that separated an artisan from just a pipemaker. Skill would be a factor.

Are you using the term "pipemaker" to designate a firm or worker at a pipe making company as opposed to an individual who works at making pipes alone in their "studio"? You really have not defined the differences you seem to imply in your terms! :twisted: :twisted:

I'm not implying anything actually. I was simply curious as to what people saw as the difference. You seem to be saying that an artisan makes pipes as a solo endeavor. Oh, and please don't read biases into the question.

 

[monbla256]

I supposed that an elevated skill level might earn the term "artisan" but to me, they are synonymous.  

Well an artisan is certainly a pipe maker,. But I was more curious about what people thought were the characteristics that separated an artisan from just a pipemaker. Skill would be a factor.

Are you using the term "pipemaker" to designate a firm or worker at a pipe making company as opposed to an individual who works at making pipes alone in their "studio"? You really have not defined the differences you seem to imply in your terms! :twisted: :twisted:

I'm not implying anything actually. I was simply curious as to what people saw as the difference. Don't read biases into the question.

Fair enough but HOW DO YOU define these two terms? :twisted: :twisted:

 

[eklektos44]

I asked an opinion, I didn't share one. Why do you seem to want to make this combat?

 

[monbla256]

I asked an opinion, I didn't share one. Why do you seem to want to make this combat?

No combat. Relax. Just asking for more info. I really could care less about "Artison" Pipemakers as it's a term used usually to inflate selling prices of pipes. There, there's an opinion, make you happy ?? :twisted: :twisted:

 

[joshoowah]

I used to not use the term "artisan" out of sheer disdain for hipster lingo, but the term seems to be sticking these days. An artisan, to me, would be an individual pipe maker rather than one who makes factory pipes. For instance, while the new Briarworks brands (Icarus, etc.) may be owned and designed by artisans, they are not artisan pipes. They are factory made pipes with a higher price tag because of who backs them.

Either way, the terms are fairly synonymous, unless further clarification is given.

 

[Richard Burley]

Let's start with a definition, one as good as any: "a person or company that makes a high-quality or distinctive product in small quantities, usually by hand or using traditional methods: our favorite local food artisans."

Few civilians, when hearing the word artisan are going to think of a pipemaker. So you can't really say that the words are synonymous, except of course on a pipe forum. Seems to me that "artisan pipemaker" would be the way to go in general usage, implying something resembling the definition above, and excluding colossi like Savinelli and Peterson.

The word, of course, is not to be confused with "artiste," which as everyone knows, is a gay pipemaker--and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Some of my best pipes were made by artistes.

 

[tslots]

If we go by the definitions:

artisan = a worker in a skilled trade, especially one that involves making things by hand.  
(Based on the Latin "artitus" meaning "instruct in the arts")
pipe maker = someone who makes pipes

Then it would seem to me that someone who works in the Dr. Grabow factory cranking out pipes on machines for 8 hrs a day (assembly line style) would fall into the more general pipe maker category.    

To me an artisan has a bit more of the art involved.  Taking pieces of briar or other appropriate woods and seeing where it leads in terms of making a pipe shape that is seen in their mind.   Machines can be involved in the process, but lots of hand work also.   Also, an artisan usually determines when the pipe is actually "finished" vs. just having a functional pipe.  Sometimes this involves scrapping efforts and starting over again.

 

[Sasquatch]

All these definitional kind of things are a little slippery.

Can we assume that artisanal pipes are made by one maker? S. Bangs are made by two guys. So they are out. LOL I didn't get very far.

Because I focus on basically traditional English, French, and Italian shapes, does that make me something different than a guy making Danish styled stuff? One seeker of Danish-style pipe design said to me at a show "I see you more as a craftsman than an artist." I didn't disagree. The question of course, becomes "is THAT guy an artist because he glues a hunk of whale tooth to the end of a tear drop shank?". The definitions are unclear, the meanings clearer.


There's about 8 zillion guys hammering pipes out of their garage or basement right now. I don't consider most of them artisanal pipe makers, because to me, I want to see a certain skillset mastered before I call a guy an artisan. Pulling a lumpy, over-salted loaf of bread out of the oven doesn't make me an artisanal baker, it makes me a shitty baker. There's lots of that in the pipe world right now.

So I'd apply the label "artisan" to guys who have put in time, perfected skills, possibly guys who have shown that they have a recognizeable style (this is a whole nother kettle of fish really). Whether their intent is to make art or not... I don't think that's too relevant in our context. The intent to make something unique, and wonderful, and presumably as good as it can be, combined with enough skill to get it there....

It's probably a thing where we aren't going to generate a definition that works for every case, and certainly even inside the community, people kind of shrug about terms like "artisanal" and "handmade" because in a way, every pipe is those things, no matter what. Our intent with defining something is by necessity to exclude something else, and it's kind of unclear in these cases what we are hoping to exclude. Badly made pipes? Ugly pipes? Who judges this? :scratch: :lol!:

 

[eklektos44]

I asked an opinion, I didn't share one. Why do you seem to want to make this combat?

No combat. Relax. Just asking for more info. I really could care less about "Artison" Pipemakers as it's a term used usually to inflate selling prices of pipes. There, there's an opinion, make you happy ?? :twisted: :twisted:

Well, as you asked I usually associate "artisan" with older production methods usually handmade. Which actually lets out almost all pipes made today. It's not necessarily solo, as an artisans workshop may have many people working in it, such as apprentices, ect. It's almost a pre-industrial term.

As an aside I would consider Roy Underhill an artisan.

 

[Sasquatch]

LOL yeah we just pour blocks and rods in the machine, and out comes a pipe!

 

[eklektos44]

LOL yeah we just pour blocks and rods in the machine, and out comes a pipe!

Not what I said. Some people use the term more broadly than I do perhaps. But there is something to the term that implies a pre-industrial means of production.

 

[MisterE]

I'm surprised there's been this much input on  the topic, lol.

It's just a designation which has become popular to denote an individual hobbyist/pipe maker from the larger, mass produced makers.

I think it's kind of cool to see guys who I remember as newbs here on BoB now as successful pipe makers. :cheers:

 

[eklektos44]

I'm surprised there's been this much input on  the topic, lol.

It's just a designation which has become popular to denote an individual hobbyist/pipe maker from the larger, mass produced makers.

I think it's kind of cool to see guys who I remember as newbs here on BoB now as successful pipe makers.  :cheers:

Well I was just curious as it seems a pretty nebulous term as used today. There's a lot of "artisan' cheese makers who actually mass produce their products for example. I am somewhat taken aback at the defensiveness about it though. I appreciate a well made pipe, so how it was produced really becomes irrelevant.

 

[monbla256]

As an example of how nebulous the term "artisan" can be, what would one call the Autograph series produced in the Savinelli factory? they are ALL made by one of 5/6 craftsman, in one of a kind shapes and quantities ( no duplicates of shapes ala standard shaped production ) ? I would term them as "Artison" pipes IMHO :twisted: :twisted: So much for the one man, one pipe idea as these folks work in a FACTORY that turns out 1000's of pipes a year !! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[eklektos44]

As an example of how nebulous the term "artisan" can be, what would one call the Autograph series produced in the Savinelli factory? they are ALL made by one of 5/6 craftsman, in one of a kind shapes and quantities ( no duplicates of shapes ala standard shaped production ) ? I would term them as "Artison" pipes IMHO :twisted: :twisted:  So much for the one man, one pipe idea as these folks work in a FACTORY that turns out 1000's of pipes a year !! :twisted: :twisted:

You know, with all the Italian pipes I own I don't have a Savinelli. I'm going to have to look into an Autograph.

 

[Sasquatch]

Yeah I'm just playing around, man.

I think for most solo pipemakers, a lot of the production means ARE pre-industrial or nearly so because in making one-off pieces having machines (which are by nature best at replication) isn't super helpful. There are machines that will make stems, but none of us "solo artisans" have them, we use files to cut the button etc. Lots of handwork.

But yeah, the lathe (x2), the sander, the polishing wheels, it's all modern, for sure. But the skills and knowledge to get something out of those things... that's the part that I guess I'd focus on. I don't need the machines to make a nice pipe - they make things faster. My hands, I need.