baking tobacco

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desertpiper

desertpiper

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I'm currently reading a book called "The Perfect Smoke", by Fred Hanna. The chapter I'm reading now talks about a interesting concept call stoving or baking tobacco. In this chapter he Tells you how to bake your tobacco (roughly 180 to 190 degrees for roughly 300 minutes) is one example. And he is very enthusiastic about the results. Especially Virginians. I know I will give it a try just to see the results. Has anyone else heard of, or tried this method? I'm curious to learn more.
 
Other forums have discussed this and the results have been favorable. One forum even discussed this within the past week.
 
I discussed this with Fred last year at the NASPC show and gave it a go shortly after returning home. It is indeed 300 minutes (5 hours), not 30. I tried it with some Full Virginia Flake, Escudo, & Christmas Cheer so far. All were baked at 190 degrees for 5 hours. The FVF turned out pretty tasty, not exactly like a legitimately aged tin though. I haven't tried the Christmas Cheer yet. The Escudo was rather good too, but as Brian Levine put it after trying a sample, it lost some of it's "periquey-ness". I may try another tin of Escudo at a shorter time or lower temp to see if that helps. It's definitely fun to play around with, just like home pressing!
 
Richard Burley":1poea4kv said:
300 minutes?  I will assume you mean 30.  If Fred Hanna likes it, give it a shot.
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Nope it's 300 minutes. Just like barbeque low and slow.
 
If the blend is formulated with mainly "stoved" 'baccy, wouldn't re-stoving it be just redundant?
 
Yes, I've done this many times. It's a great way to mellow a blend. Started when he first proposed the technique with the 220/220 method (220 mins at 220 degrees). Haven't done it in a while, but what worked very well for me was 180 degrees for 5 hours, then store the unopened container for two to four weeks. I've also done the crock pot method, which is easier and avoids having to explain the wife that Latakia smell all over the oven.
 
Maybe I'll give this a try with the new Escudo, I can't see where it could hurt.
Besides I don't see where I have 10 years to age it. With my luck I'll kick the bucket
before it's even 7 years cellared.
Besides, that seems to be a long wait just to have a good smoke.  ;) 
 
I tried this with fvf and escudo at 190 for 5 hours. The results were pretty tasty. Both tins lost their seal and were very dry when they came out of the oven so I had to rehydrate them.
 
So, the question is begging to be asked. I saw it referenced, but no clarification. Are you supposed to throw the sealed tin in the oven? Also, What if you got your baccy in bulk? Can you put this in a mason jar with a lid (sort of like canning) and then let it cool after the 5 hrs? Mason jars and lids are made to handle boiling water and steam, so I think they can handle the 180 degree temps fine. Plus side is that after it cools, the jars should be sealed for a great long while. What say you? I am really going to have to buy this book on the kindle.

 
The tobacco in a seal tin is wrapped in paper. If I should put a sealed tin in the oven, won't the paper get scourched and spoil the tobacco?

Also, won't the steam, which might be caused, let the tin pop open?

I would like to try this but I don't want to spoil some excellent tobacco  :oops: 
 
Paper has to be north of 400 degrees to scorch/ burn, if I remember correctly. And I was wondering the same thing on the tin seals.
 
d4klutz":3do7l1ok said:
Paper has to be north of 400 degrees to scorch/ burn, if I remember correctly.  And I was wondering the same thing on the tin seals.
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When canning you bring the water to boiling / 212 SO, If water boils at 212 degrees I would think the seals are safe below that. Just make sure your oven thermostat is correct, we don't want Escudo cookies, just good and warm coins.  ;) 
 
Cartaphilus":2y6xiiaj said:
d4klutz":2y6xiiaj said:
Paper has to be north of 400 degrees to scorch/ burn, if I remember correctly.  And I was wondering the same thing on the tin seals.
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When canning you bring the water to boiling / 212 SO, If water boils at 212 degrees I would think the seals are safe below that. Just make sure your oven thermostat is correct, we don't want Escudo cookies, just good and warm coins.  ;) 
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 :lol!: 

I wonder what an Escudo cookie would tase like? I reckon it should be quite nice because it tastes wonderful when "cooked" in my pipe!
 
You guys need to be a little careful what you 'stove' at home, stoving tobacco has some weird side effect where it can almost stop the ageing process entirely, wish I could remember where I read it, man my memory is awful. If you want aged tobacco then be patient and age some, it doesn't take forever for most blends to improve, most if not all improve massively in just a single year, some improve quite a bit in as little as just 4 months. Of course if you've stoving some just to have the experience right away of home stoving then have at it folks but leave it well alone if you want your baccy aged proper like.
 
Briar Spirit":5tcvxbab said:
You guys need to be a little careful what you 'stove' at home, stoving tobacco has some weird side effect where it can almost stop the ageing process entirely, wish I could remember where I read it, man my memory is awful. If you want aged tobacco then be patient and age some, it doesn't take forever for most blends to improve, most if not all improve massively in just a single year, some improve quite a bit in as little as just 4 months. Of course if you've stoving some just to have the experience right away of home stoving then have at it folks but leave it well alone if you want your baccy aged proper like.
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Briar Spirit, you hit the nail right on the head.  Tobacco contains naturally occurring enzymes (oxidases) that procure the aging process of the tobacco leaf.  Once you toast or stove tobacco at these high temperatures, you denature (destroy) these enzymes thereby prohibiting any further natural maturation processes.  I would never stove or toast any pipe tobacco blend. These blends are finished products.  For all practical purposes, as long as pipe tobacco contains some moisture (as it comes in the tins), then let these enzymes do their work.  They are the perfectionists - it just takes time.

High temperature treatment of tobaccos does have its purposes, but not for finished products.  If you ever smoked whole leaf tobacco (raw tobacco leaf after flue or air curing), you will know what I mean - it is harsh as hell - especially Burleys.  Heat treatment decomposes many nasty tasting components in the tobacco leaf, many are nitrogen-containing compound (alkaloids).  It's a quick method to process raw leaf and make the tobacco palatable.  This is a particularly common practice in cigarette tobacco production.  Have you ever seen "It's Toasted" printed on a pack of Lucky Strikes?

Another purpose of heat treatment is to lock in the sugar content of tobacco - Virginias in particular.  Virginias have a high sugar/carbohydrate content relative to other varieties.  After heat treatment, most of our friendly enzymes a rendered useless.  As a result, there is essentially no way of metabolizing the sugars, carbohydrates and other components - thus they are "locked in the leaf."  The temperatures used to flue cure Virginias denatures most of the wanted enzymes except for one oxidase.  However, this oxidase works very, very slowly - slow enough to ignore its action.

I grow and process my own tobaccos.  There are many tricks of the trade.  It takes extensive amount of time and experimentation to transform a tobacco seed into a pleasurable smoke.  Producing premium quality tobacco is truly an art and a science. :face:
 
I have used Fred's technique, and enjoyed the results. Those coin twist tins like Dunhill and Orlik Golden Slice are not going to age in the tin they come in anyway, so you might as well use the stoving technique unless you plan to transfer them to a different container for long term aging.
 
U-235":isb7n85u said:
I grow and process my own tobaccos.  There are many tricks of the trade.  It takes extensive amount of time and experimentation to transform a tobacco seed into a pleasurable smoke.  Producing premium quality tobacco is truly an art and a science. :face:
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Now that right there is most interesting, my late Da' used to grow and produce his own tobacco and that was all he ever smoked, wish I'd known him longer so I could have learnt more from him. I wonder, could I ask do you have any photo's of your tobacco producing you could share with us, I should dearly love to see any you might have. I've oft' wanted to grow my own tobacco myself but space restrictions and of course financial limitations stop me from doing so but seeing other folk getting along with it seems to fill that void. What sort of tobaccos do you grow, what treatments do you use, do you have specific blends you create, do you do rope/twist tobaccos, do you perchance do your own aromatics. Sorry, lots of questions there, the subject fascinates me I must say.  :sunny:
 
I completely agree that long term cellaring will give you a superior tobacco to baked tobacco. But this is an alternative to cellaring for those of us who don't want to take the time or don't have the means to purchase several tins of baccy to cellar.
 
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