catsup aplenty but where's the beef?

[ragged claws]

I picked this up today and I can't wait to try some

:twisted:

Now that's just plain funny!

 

[Briar Spirit]

I picked this up today and I can't wait to try some

:twisted:

Class act, nice one.

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Just because I think this whole thing is ridiculous doesn't make it so. Sorry.

 

[Kelhammer]

Christmas Cheer 2009 was my first McC experience. I never smelled catsup in it. Then I read all the comments here about this signature smell. My next tin was Frog Morton. Still no catsup. I had only smoked a few months, and wondered often about this topic. After my 2009 was gone I went to a tin of 2011. Cracked the lid and laughed out loud. I smelled it, catsup. I was unsure I would be able to smoke it, the smell was so strong. I let some out, to air a bit. When I came back to it, it just reminded me of the 2009 tin. The Tobby in the tin still holds the sent some, but as it has time to breath, it fades. I love smoking it!

Andy

 

[Aristokles]

The OP is NOT imagining the catsup experience. To lambast him for his palate picking up this taste is unseemly and, frankly, wrong. Many smell it, some can taste it as well (including me).

For the record, I do know what fermented tobacco smells like; the McC Catsup/BBQ aroma is not it. I have finally had to quit smoking most McClelland's (regrettably) because I too can taste this bane - so much so in some blends as to make me toss expensive tobacco, former favorites as this has gotten worse lately.

I've read that it is an effect of the Virginias. Perhaps, but I've never gotten it from other blenders.

I do suspect it has something to do with the antifungal/mold additive- the type vinegar used, or the amount. (Vinegar and sugar along with tomatoes are the major components of ketchup; toss in smoke flavor for BBQ sauce. With tobacco Latakia and vinegar = McC BBQ sauce). PERHAPS.

Some folks love the stuff. Some hate it. But in no way should we put our tongue in someone else's head; that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[beetlejazz]

But in no way should we put our tongue in someone else's head; that makes no sense whatsoever.

Ewww! :lol:


I've only once tasted tobacco I felt had a very distinct ketchup-smell in the tin, but it didn't really communicate that much to the smoking experience. Just what it smelled like in the tin. After reading this topic I had to go and google the tobacco and see the blender - and surprise surprise, McClelland :lol: (Ashton Revival: Black Parrot)

 

[sisyphus]

I've never smelled ketchup or bbq in a McC Va. There is a tang to the scent. What puts me off to them is a recurring flavor. The sweet note in McC Va's pushes the artificial sweetener button in my brain, and that coupled with their lighter nature and low nic is why I don't embrace them the way I do SG and K&K flakes. There's no doubt about their pedigree, they just aren't for me.

 

[Aristokles]

But in no way should we put our tongue in someone else's head; that makes no sense whatsoever.

Ewww! :lol:


I've only once tasted tobacco I felt had a very distinct ketchup-smell in the tin, but it didn't really communicate that much to the smoking experience. Just what it smelled like in the tin. After reading this topic I had to go and google the tobacco and see the blender - and surprise surprise, McClelland :lol: (Ashton Revival: Black Parrot)

Chuckle. Yeah I fired off too quickly on that one, including addressing the OP incorrectly. Curiously I do not get the effect as much from McC's Ashton Revival Old Dog as I do from some others, and then with more others, none at all. It varies, but it's always a McC when it's comes up.

Some folks like the taste, fine, good for them. Some can't taste it at all, better for them.

Some are just grumpy old men, such as myself.

 

[puros_bran]

<----------- GOMit. Grumpy Old Man (in training)

 

[jj1015]

The OP is NOT imagining the catsup experience. To lambast him for his palate picking up this taste is unseemly and, frankly, wrong. Many smell it, some can taste it as well (including me).

For the record, I do know what fermented tobacco smells like; the McC Catsup/BBQ aroma is not it. I have finally had to quit smoking most McClelland's (regrettably) because I too can taste this bane - so much so in some blends as to make me toss expensive tobacco, former favorites as this has gotten worse lately.

I've read that it is an effect of the Virginias. Perhaps, but I've never gotten it from other blenders.

I do suspect it has something to do with the antifungal/mold additive- the type vinegar used, or the amount. (Vinegar and sugar along with tomatoes are the major components of ketchup; toss in smoke flavor for BBQ sauce. With tobacco Latakia and vinegar = McC BBQ sauce). PERHAPS.

Some folks love the stuff. Some hate it. But in no way should we put our tongue in someone else's head; that makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm fairly sure that McClelland's signature flavor is the result of the tobacco aging/fermenting. More specifically, it's certain types of American-grown VA's aging and fermenting without the same types of steaming/casing/processing that other blenders traditionally use.

I've actually gotten ahold of some raw red Virginias before (NOT from McClelland, but from C&D of all places) that developed the ketchup stench/flavor after a couple of years in storage. I've also had Virginia-based cigarettes that had a similar flavor. Also, GL Pease has written about this issue before and talked about how he is convinced the "ketchup" is the simple result of aging/fermentation and talked about how he has previously gotten the "ketchup" thing from aging VAs on his own.

Aside from the processing issues (keep in mind that all the virginias we get from SG, GH, Rattrays, etc. are cased/steamed/etc), there is the question of where the VAs come from. Very few of the VAs used in European-made tobacco blends are from the United States. They are grown instead in Africa or South America, while all of McClellands are sourced from U.S. farmers. The climate makes a huge difference -- it's why we can't grow perique outside of a small stretch of land in Louisiana and why orientals grown in the U.S. taste like burley.

 

[Anonymous]

Nearly everybody probably improves Virginias a bit by soaking them in sugar water (the solitary exception being GLP's Union Square). There is, IMHO (and in that of some others like Sis) a line that can be crossed with this though. (Again IMHO), if McC Virginias and Virginia-based tobacs don't cross this, they redline it.

Apes (and other Anthropoids) have two easily-pushed buttons that key enthusiastic responses : Shiny (it's probably sheer coincidence that shiny new unsmoked, or recently spiffed-up shiny estate pipes sell more easily and for higher prices, and that most smooth, new pipes are -- to the extent possible -- ultra-shiny) and Sweet (the overall impression you get from reading a hundred reviews & comments is that what people consistently like about McC Virginias is that they're so sweet).

De gustibus non disputandem. Fruit sweet, and candy/cake sweet are different ranges on the continuum.

Vinnegar : perceived on this end, for whatever little that may be worth (if anything). Not so much tasted, but aroma and taste are aspects of the same, unitary phenomenon.

:face:

 

[Aristokles]

I like your take on this, Yak.

 

[Anonymous]

The climate makes a huge difference -- it's why we can't grow perique outside of a small stretch of land in Louisiana and why orientals grown in the U.S. taste like burley.

A point of outstanding interest & relevance. But I'm not sure that just "climate" (average temperature, rainfall, humidity, growing season) accounts for it.

It's not like that, in a long and arguably mis-spent life, I've ever known people who would . . . break the law or anything. But there was one guy in the Philadelphia area, long ago (well past the Statute of Limitations by now) who was renowned, in certain circles, as the Luther Burbank of Pot. He had seeds from, it seemed, every part of the world where cannabis ever grew. Morocco. Jordan. Thailand . . . These he meticulously crossbred in a never-ending search for the ultimate strain of that particular plant.

("Renowned" as in, Bob Marley used to send courriers up to Philly every so often for a pound of the good stuff).

What this person I never knew is rumored to have found, by experience, is that no matter what parent strain(s) he planted/crossbred, while the resulting product would blow the tops of peoples' heads off, the seeds of those resulting thoroughbred strains produced only average old, pretty good, American B-Flat pot.

Maybe about parallel to the heartbreaking failure of expert growers with great Cuban seed to replicate Cuban tobacco elsewhere.

FWIW

:face:

 

[monbla256]

Yuk, thanks for your first hand knowledge of what McC does with it's tobacco. I'm sure this knowledge comes from your many years WORKING for them up in KC so that you can FACTUALLY speak on this :twisted: :evil: I'd be more inclind to say that "I feel that..." such is such in this matter unless I had working knowledge of the facts concerning all this sugar water etc. :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

You are absolutely and categorically right on that.

But by the same token, ethical reporters do not dime-out confidential informants.

If they did, nobody who knew anything would talk to them.

:face:

 

[monbla256]

You are absolutely and categorically right on that.

But by the same token, ethical reporters do not dime-out confidential informants.

If they did, nobody who knew anything would talk to them.

:face:

Ahhhh yes ETHICAL REPORTERS, I DO understand now, :twisted: Please don't change your ethics

 

[jj1015]

The climate makes a huge difference -- it's why we can't grow perique outside of a small stretch of land in Louisiana and why orientals grown in the U.S. taste like burley.

A point of outstanding interest & relevance. But I'm not sure that just "climate" (average temperature, rainfall, humidity, growing season) accounts for it.

It's not like that, in a long and arguably mis-spent life, I've ever known people who would . . . break the law or anything. But there was one guy in the Philadelphia area, long ago (well past the Statute of Limitations by now) who was renowned, in certain circles, as the Luther Burbank of Pot. He had seeds from, it seemed, every part of the world where cannabis ever grew. Morocco. Jordan. Thailand . . . These he meticulously crossbred in a never-ending search for the ultimate strain of that particular plant.

("Renowned" as in, Bob Marley used to send courriers up to Philly every so often for a pound of the good stuff).

What this person I never knew is rumored to have found, by experience, is that no matter what parent strain(s) he planted/crossbred, while the resulting product would blow the tops of peoples' heads off, the seeds of those resulting thoroughbred strains produced only average old, pretty good, American B-Flat pot.

Maybe about parallel to the heartbreaking failure of expert growers with great Cuban seed to replicate Cuban tobacco elsewhere.

FWIW

:face:

Great points, all. And I certainly don't think where the tobacco comes from is ALL of the picture.... But I suspect it might play a role.

As I said, I've gotten the "ketchup" thing from other VAs purchased from other blenders, so it's not a uniquely McC phenomenon. It's just that most of McC's VA blends seem to have it.

I'd love to know what they do, but it's a closely-guarded trade secret.

 

[Anonymous]

Ahhhh yes ETHICAL REPORTERS, I DO understand now, :twisted:

Not that there's ever much of a point to replying to broadsides like that, but I don't think you do.

With an abstract proposition (your approach), you're dealing with what something looks like.

But beyond the realm of appearance, there is substance.

NFL players look like they should be the happiest people on earth. I mean, they're making all that money ! And they only play three hours every week. Doing what they love for enough money that they can have anything you want !

Piece of cake, right ?

:face:

 

[RDPipes]

Just my 2 cents on the subject of taste.
A lot of people love Scotch, some don't. They say you have to form a taste for it.
I for one hate it and as far as forming a taste for it....I don't think it has anything to do with
improving your taste. With that said, I think the same goes for anything including tobaccos.
I have some GLP Union Square that I've tried several times in different pipes with different packing
methods and it still tastes like dirt to me, yes dirt. Does that make me NOT a connoisseur of fine tobacco?
No I think not, I think everyone's taste buds are different to some extent and it also depends I feel
on how and what passed over them in the years to form their taste. Being one of the looked down on
cigarette smokers and smoking Camel non-filters for many years my taste for tobaccos is strong and full bodied
not being able to taste anything in others. I do enjoy my new found Escudo which I reckon for some is not
there Cup O' Tea but, would not think them any less because of it. In fact if everyone like it there wouldn't be enough for me.
Now I could go on and on about taste but, I'll leave my rantings to some other time. My comments here are not intended to be argumentative or demeaning, just MY humble opinion.

 

[monbla256]

Ahhhh yes ETHICAL REPORTERS, I DO understand now, :twisted:

Not that there's ever much of a point to replying to broadsides like that, but I don't think you do.

With an abstract proposition (your approach), you're dealing with what something looks like.

But beyond the realm of appearance, there is substance.

NFL players look like they should be the happiest people on earth. I mean, they're making all that money ! And they only play three hours every week. Doing what they love for enough money that they can have anything you want !

Piece of cake, right ?

:face:

Yup! Whatever YOU say Yuk