Delusion?

[monbla256]

Been watching this thread for awhile now and have found some good points made by many but want to add a thought that has not come up yet. All factors being equal, ie production skill, material quality, and presentation,ie packaging etc. there is really NO difference btwn a high end production pipe or a lower-end production pipe OR an "Artisan produced" pipe other than the PRICE. It is only human nature to justify our actions and I, as many others, would not want to admit that a $60.00 Edwards pipe was as good as a $300.00 Artisan pipe if I had just spent the $300.00 . But the truth is, they may be EQUAL, IN SMOKING QUALITIES for sure. in esthetics and design probably not and THAT is what you are paying for, the UNIQUENESS of the Artisan pipe. I have several high end Charatan's and a few Dunhill's I bought new back in the 70s/80s as well as several Edwards and other production British pipes bought at that time and I can truely say that the $30/40 (price when new) Edwards smoke as well and some BETTER than some of my more expensive ones. Do they have the SAME esthetic as my Executives, or Supremes ? No, Are they made as well? YES. Do they smoke as well? YES and a few BETTER. So, bottom line is that you decide WHAT you want as criteria for your pipe purchases and thats what it is YOUR DECISION and CRITERIA, NOT FACT. Ya pays ya money, ya takes your chances ! JMHO

 

[Richard Burley]

Let's not forget that two or more owners of the same pipe could easily have different opinions of its smoking qualities. Ever wonder why there are "estate" pipes and where they come from, besides some old bastard kicking the bucket? Every pipe I've sold on eBay was a turkey--to me. The pipes there range from junk to rarities. Some of the priciest, I've noticed, have allegedly been smoked only a few times. What's the deal with that? I'm supposed to pay half a yard or more for something that was rejected by its owner after one or two smokes? It gives one pause, re the expensive ones.

 

[Harlock999]

At the risk of opening myself up to ridicule, I would propose that the very idea of the "better smoking" pipe is part of the delusion, whatever the price may be. There are so many individual variables involved in determining whether a pipe smokes well or not.
What are you smoking in it?
Do you smoke fast or slowly?
Do you smoke inside or outdoors?

I started out smoking wet aromatics, packed too tightly, outdoors, too fast. Every pipe I owned gurgled.
Now I smoke indoors after drying out the tobacco sufficiently, packed loosely. No gurgle, ever...
Here are two pipes at opposite ends of the price spectrum. Both perform nicely when user error does interfere with what they were made to do: hold burning tobacco.
The rest is just aesthetics...

Do bad pipes exist? Probably, but I've heard of, and experienced enough poorly drilled pipes that performed well, that I think the delusion is not so much about price, but the expectations of performance itself.

 

[puros_bran]

Umm don't think the discussion is about used pipes. If it is I've been the old guy talking off topic while every one laughs.


But. You are applying 'negative' sale to all pipes?
Some are sold because they are sold. I've sold some decent to great pipes simply because I wasn't smoking them and they had no sentimental value. Some sale to upgrade in name brand. Some sale because they are in a hard spot. Some sale because uncle joe kept sayin 'my pipe is worth more than your pos car jr so STFU and respect your elders' to little Johnny.

 

[puros_bran]

Col. Your dues are due. Send me one of those pipes.

 

[Harlock999]

Col. Your dues are due. Send me one of those pipes.

Wish I could, but I already unloaded them to some rube on EBAY after I duped him with a line about how "great" they smoke... :lol!:

 

[Ocelot55]

To rephrase what has been said here, and what I eluded to in my first post in this thread, the pipe is only half the equation. the other half is the smoker and the tobacco. Each smoker smokes differently and each tobacco has its own specific characteristics. Still, we try to limit our poor experiences by trying to take away the 50% uncertainty that is on the pipe side of the equation. To do that we need standards. To me, that means quality engineering, followed by quality briar, and finally by aesthetics.

Once again, its about what you like. But the only way to figure that out is to experience it. So I think everyone needs one or two $300-$600 pipes, just to see the difference. That's why I bought my Dunhill. Is it my best smoking pipe? No. But it is a hell of a lot better than almost all my Petes, some of my Stanwells and Savinellis, but not near as good as my Ashton and my Kurt Huhn, both of which cost less. I do not regret my decision to buy a Dunhill. My curiousity has been satisfied and I enjoy the pipe.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[dshpipes]

Superduperuberhuber said.

"Artisans, experienced or new on the scene, take a lot more care with every detail in every pipe than most factories or workshops do. Without that care, artisans would be unsustainable in this hobby."

I said (paraphrase) "your paying for quality control"

Same thing, diff words.

Totally agree. I'm just a good deal wordier.

Part of the problem with discussions like this when they pop up is that everyone has different experiences and that none of them are wrong. How could they be? They're each person's individual experience. As a result, we wind up with widely varying opinions about what the facts are.

I will go a step further and declare we are deluded.
An awesome $600 pipe smokes the same as an awesome $60 pipe. Once the gem is out of the water it's all equal, with the possible (but not necessary) exception of ascetic.

I disagree with this statement and statements like it based on my personal experience.

Please excuse me fellas, but at this point, I'm going to bow out of the conversation as I honestly don't think we're going to find any communal truth in it one way or the other.

 

[monbla256]

Superduperuberhuber said.

"Artisans, experienced or new on the scene, take a lot more care with every detail in every pipe than most factories or workshops do. Without that care, artisans would be unsustainable in this hobby."

I said (paraphrase) "your paying for quality control"

Same thing, diff words.

Totally agree. I'm just a good deal wordier.

Part of the problem with discussions like this when they pop up is that everyone has different experiences and that none of them are wrong. How could they be? They're each person's individual experience. As a result, we wind up with widely varying opinions about what the facts are.

I will go a step further and declare we are deluded.
An awesome $600 pipe smokes the same as an awesome $60 pipe. Once the gem is out of the water it's all equal, with the possible (but not necessary) exception of ascetic.

I disagree with this statement and statements like it based on my personal experience.

Please excuse me fellas, but at this point, I'm going to bow out of the conversation as I honestly don't think we're going to find any communal truth in it one way or the other.

Very true that there is not nor can be" ... any communal truth" in this discussion as it is totaly based on disperate experiences and OPINIONS formed from those experiences. Those who have experienced one side of the situation which might be different from another can be as "correct" as the other. Once again, it is all a matter of OPINION not FACT. We all see and decide differently. This does not say that there are not badly made and smoking pipes out there and yes , many of these are in the lower price point, but this does not support the premise that only higher end pipes are BETTER. Just that these particular pipe were not very good and the just happened to be being sold for less. It's all a matter of personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less and we should all express things as such. JMHO

 

[MisterE]

I will go a step further and declare we are deluded.
An awesome $600 pipe smokes the same as an awesome $60 pipe. Once the gem is out of the water it's all equal, with the possible (but not necessary) exception of ascetic.

You probably meant "aesthetic", right? I think the ascetic piper will argue a $10 basket pipe serves the same purpose as a $1000 pipe and is therefore just as good.

I tend to agree, however, that "special" and "great smoking" pipes can be found in just about any price range. A well drilled, properly constructed pipe made of good briar (regardless of the name on it) stands a good chance of being a good smoker.

So much of the hobby really comes down to just that: aesthetics.

You might even be able to have the same argument about tobacco.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I haven't been watching this thread at all, but skipped over it many times knowing already the different yards in which contain different yappin' dogs. :lol:

Plus, you guys talk too much.

But unseriously, Mr E., the ascetic aesthetic has always been a fascinating subject to me. 8)

My two surprisingly quick copper Lincolns:

-- Artisan pipes give bored aging gents something to do. They exhibit imagination and trend. Buying them makes the piper feel good. This is what you pay for. If, in the end, they also smoke wonderfully, they're worth every penny to those who pursue them.

-- Factory pipes are engineered. Whether or not they come out engineered well and perform at a price point is a matter of luck and debate. To get a "perfect $____ pipe," you're paying for what went into the waste bin and the people running machines that make that waste.

Conclusion: If every piece of briar that was ever dug up was ideal, and pipes never burnt out, and no one ever put any love and thought in them, this forum would only be about tobacco.

*goes back to favorite spot in the yard, circles three times, tucks tail, lays down, sighs* Woof. 8)

 

[puros_bran]

I will go a step further and declare we are deluded.
An awesome $600 pipe smokes the same as an awesome $60 pipe. Once the gem is out of the water it's all equal, with the possible (but not necessary) exception of ascetic.

You probably meant "aesthetic", right? I think the ascetic piper will argue a $10 basket pipe serves the same purpose as a $1000 pipe and is therefore just as good.

I tend to agree, however, that "special" and "great smoking" pipes can be found in just about any price range. A well drilled, properly constructed pipe made of good briar (regardless of the name on it) stands a good chance of being a good smoker.

So much of the hobby really comes down to just that: aesthetics.

You might even be able to have the same argument about tobacco.

Now the Mexican's are starting on my too??

 

[Boxerbuddy]

Mister E!!! I just heard about the earthquake in Mexico City. I hope you and yours are ok and safe.

 

[MisterE]

Oh yes Peeb, we got to keep the borders safe for those still learning de eengleesh!

Box- Thanks for asking! Yep the big one wasn't too bad, just rocked us around a little. We had a little tremor about an hour ago which had us all in out the street for a moment. Happens all the time unfortunately. :affraid:

 

[puros_bran]

Mister E.. I've been trying for 40 years and still aint learneded it.. leave the boys alone.


I don't hate the mexican or any of the other latin peoples flooding our country. I'd do the same thing if I was in their position.
Sit in desperation or head north with little trouble..

Hate the corruption and greed that holds them in that position, the drug cartels, the governments, the corporations.. but don't hate the man trying to better himself.


(I did it again didn't I.. dang. )

 

[Rob_In_MO]

Back on topic, Brothers!


Surprised this hasn't been brought up, and at the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest, i'll say it.

Brothers - as much as I hate to say this, i've got a MM Bent Diplomat that smokes darn near as good as my Sav's and Peterson. - Yes - A $7.00 Cob! Not sure what it is about this particular Diplomat, but they got something right. Sure, it's not Briar and doesn't have the same lifespan - but it smokes Damn Well! Best smoking Cob i've ever had, and i've been through many of them over the last 19-years.

If he sees this thread and chimes in, John could probably share similar experiences.

 

[puros_bran]

Who says a cob doesn't have a long lifespan?

It is usually the user mistreating it because it's 'just a cob' that causes failure.

 

[monbla256]

Just proves the point that it is an INDIVIDUAL thing, not the price point or whether the pipe is an "Artisan" or High Grade.

 

[riff raff]

I think this has to apply strictly to new pipes, all bets are off with estates, unless they are unsmoked.

 

[monbla256]

I think this has to apply strictly to new pipes, all bets are off with estates, unless they are unsmoked.

i would have to agree with you there, but since Artisan pipes are perfect ( or so I've been told), your not gonna find any. Why would someone want to sell them?