double english?

[jonnylaw13]

So I was at one of the book world stores in the are, seems to be the only place to get decent tobac in northern Wi/u.p. Mi and I ran across some Comoy's cask no1 double English samplers so I grabbed a couple, figured have yet to try an English so why not its cheap. Well I like it a bit, I seem to prefer it for "breakfast" per say, and it seems to taste best in my grabow lark non-folter/stinger. So now I'm definitely down to try more/other englishes but my question I'm hoping to find an answer to is, what is "double English"? Where does double compare to a "full" English, and what are the other "levels" of englishes? Since I like it best in the morning I'm thinking of trying the Dunhill Early morning, and maybe night cap.. Being a recent and still sort of cigarette smoker I think I can handle the nicotine content everybody warns of! But anywho please anybody who can explane this apparent engish level system, and any suggestions of good Englishs play awe and thank you!

 

[Richard Burley]

Well, there's "medium" and "full," as you've discovered. Then there's "Balkan."  Then there's Amercanized english, sometimes called a hybrid.  These terms seem rather meaningless to me, other than the latter, which can be an aromatic or near-aromatic with latakia in small or large amounts.  The "double" in Comoy's product sounds like marketing b.s., worthless as a descriptive, although the only one to ask for clarification would be the company.  I would suggest you start your latakia exploration with something like Bald-Headed Teacher (a 4noggins blend) rather than Nightcap, but who am I to say what your tastes are?  Bear in mind that I'm factoring in your recent flirtation with Black & Mild, which you said you really liked.  To go to Nightcap, et al., is quite a jump.      

Doesn't Book World handle Uhle's blends?  That's a lot better than some of us have nearby, myself included.  I would check them out.  You could do a lot worse.  Happy hunting--it's the journey, not the destination.

 

[Blackhorse]

Do a good Google on what makes a blend "English" and when you find some good articles you'll see that it has little if nothing to do with what variaty of tobacco is in the blend, like Latakia, etc. Sure, the popular culture might consider English and Latakia to be joined at the hip, but English actually refers to something like a certain standard if puriety the tobaccos have to meet...or something like that.

So Double English? What does it mean? It's just another name, quite likely selected to position the blend for marketing. But then, it might have been picked by the blender or the company for other reasons. Maybe it has to do with aspects of the recipe...but maybe not. Maybe the name refers to the possibility that it has both Latakia tobacco AND Assam tea in it! Now THAT'S Double English! lol

 

[jonnylaw13]

Rich, update: retried black and mild today, changed my mind! I think id rather smoke more capt black cherry! Bit my entire mouth and burned, it was down right terrible but made me enjoy my CAO Black that much more! The Comoy is my first latakia experience but I think blackhorse may be on to something with the tea or I'm nuts, that's always a possibility. Doing a search here for englishes tells me a I should get a taste/smell of a campfire but I don't get that all. Maybe a dry brush fire lol you are correct, book world does indeed carry Uhle blends and pipes. For the roughly $8 I spent on the borkum bourbon I should have tried some old shoe instead! They also have some "house blends" that have different names whether you're in MI or WI in MI they run it at $3.99 an Oz, the one I've tried they call classic/ black bear I am rather fond of and I wish I knew what it was other than a delicious black cav and the employees and not at all knowledgeable with there tobacco area so I'll have to keep buying it there. I've read a bit about English and how you apparently love it or hate it. I dont get it for me its in the middle I could however do without ever tasting perque (I dont think I spelled that anywhere near correct) again. It reminded me of cheap palma wrapped Garcia Vega cigars. Maybe I should scoop up the rest of BWs double English samples and share with some brothers who know much better than I do about the English thing

 

[Richard Burley]

Blackhorse above is quite right about English tobaccos at one time designating merely a standard of purity, i.e., no additives other than tobacco for flavor.  I think we can thank Dunhill for these terms suggesting nicotinic moxie of some sort.  Hey--I just thought of another one.  I used to love this tobacco just because of its quality, of course, and the fact that it was really light on the latakia.  It also had the most pleasant (to this pipe smoker) room note of any tobacco in memory.  No longer made, of course, because that's how things work.  So there's full, medium, and MILD!

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[Carlos]

I would love to get my hands on a tin of Standard Mixture Full. I like the toasty taste of the tobaccos used in Dunhill blends.

 

[jonnylaw13]

Looking around and finding the comoy cask no1 I have now on P&C they have this at a 3/5 medium strength and that its latakia, Virginia and oriental. I think its pretty strong so maybe I'll stay away from "full" if this is medium.

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

Jonnylaw, perhaps I am wrong but it seems as though a mild, yet flavorful latakia mixture that is on the sweeter side of the spectrum might be what you are looking for. IMHO, no one does mild and flavorful quite like McClelland. They have an arsenal of incredible rare tobaccos at their disposal and they use them well.  

I recently smoked through a tin of Wilderness and I wept a little. Why? 1. It was so damned good and I was that sad when my tin was gone. 2. It's only available in 50g tins at 10-12 bucks a pop (ouch). But boy was it a top notch Latakia blend.

I am a flavor first kind of guy, and I care very little about nicotine strength. Most of McClellend's lats are mild to medium nicotine at best. On the opposite side of the spectrum, I have always thought that Dunhill's mixtures were heavy handed with nic strength, and as a result I struggle to enjoy them.

 

[jonnylaw13]

This is definitely something I need to consider since McClelland is the 10% off bulk of the month over at P&C. Any specific ones you would recommend?

Jonnylaw, perhaps I am wrong but it seems as though a mild, yet flavorful latakia mixture that is on the sweeter side of the spectrum might be what you are looking for. IMHO, no one does mild and flavorful quite like McClelland. They have an arsenal of incredible rare tobaccos at their disposal and they use them well.  

I recently smoked through a tin of Wilderness and I wept a little. Why? 1. It was so damned good and I was that sad when my tin was gone. 2. It's only available in 50g tins at 10-12 bucks a pop (ouch). But boy was it a top notch Latakia blend.

I am a flavor first kind of guy, and I care very little about nicotine strength. Most of McClellend's lats are mild to medium nicotine at best. On the opposite side of the spectrum, I have always thought that Dunhill's mixtures were heavy handed with nic strength, and as a result I struggle to enjoy them.

 

[MisterE]

The whole "English/Balkan" thing is confusing. Unfortunately, some maker will come up with a name like "Double English" and it will end up becoming a category of tobacco thanks to the internet. As others have mentioned, the name English came from England's prohibition of additives to tobacco. A natural, non-topped, cased, or flavored blend later became referred to simply as English.

As a rule of thumb, just take "English" to mean any non-aromatic that may have any combination of Virginia and Oriental tobacco. Orientals, as a general term, would include Latakia, since it originally comes from the middle east.

 

[monbla256]

I've been reading all the replies to your post and find it amazing that no one has recommended three classic "English/Balkan" blends/mixtures to you. I have, and still do smoke all three for the past 40 years and find 'em to be somewhat definitive for the category. The all time premier/classic "English" would be Dunhill's My Mixture 965, a full, smooth Latakia ,Virginia forward blend which STILL can hold it's own against all others even though it's no longer a Dunhill product ( they do not blend tobacco's anymore, not even in the London store. ) Next I would recommend another Dunhill blend, their London Mixture, less Latakia, more Orientals on the same sweet Virginia base. For a classic "English/Balkan" which is lighter on the Latakia I would strongly recommend the Presbyterian Mixture, now made by K.&K. in Germany.  Something not remarked on yet is the room note almost ALL "English/Balkan" mixtures share is a not real friendly room note which is liked by others. But they sure do TASTE good  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[jonnylaw13]

Whether a large amount of suggestion to confuse me or not I'm learning a fair amount. But now slightly more confused. If latakia is an oriental, why is it listed separately?

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

Whether a large amount of suggestion to confuse me or not I'm learning a fair amount. But now slightly more confused. If latakia is an oriental, why is it listed separately?

From what I understand, it is listed separately because Latakia is the end result of a process of curing the tobacco. It's a fire/smoke cured Oriental. This distinction is similar to why Perique and Kentucky are listed separately from Burley even though they both start out as burley. Kentucky is fire cured, Perique goes through a fermentation process and is aged for a long period of time in hogsheads.

I should also mention that some older blends made no distinction between Oriental and Latakia. For the longest time Early Morning Pipe was just listed as a VA/Oriental, as was Rattray's Red Rapparee.

 

[jonnylaw13]

So does that mean that all orientals have higher nicotine contents than Virginias of sorts?

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

So does that mean that all orientals have higher nicotine contents than Virginias of sorts?

Best to read these...

http://www.glpease.com/FAQ.html

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/tobacco-basics-nicotine-amp-sugar-content-curing-methods

Enjoy.   

 

[jonnylaw13]

So does that mean that all orientals have higher nicotine contents than Virginias of sorts?

Best to read these...


Enjoy.   

great reads but now I'm way more confused on multiple points. I was actually highly surprised about the low nicotine in Turkish tobacco since this is one that is a well known "cigarette" tobac.
secondly, if latakia is lower In nicotine, what's up with as I'll call it the "nightcap coma"? Maybe this is all just beyond my understanding, the nicotine content is irrelevant to me anyway just interesting.

 

[MisterE]

So does that mean that all orientals have higher nicotine contents than Virginias of sorts?

Best to read these...


Enjoy.   

great reads but now I'm way more confused on multiple points. I was actually highly surprised about the low nicotine in Turkish tobacco since this is one that is a well known "cigarette" tobac.
secondly, if latakia is lower In nicotine, what's up with as I'll call it the "nightcap coma"? Maybe this is all just beyond my understanding, the nicotine content is irrelevant to me anyway just interesting.

Nightcap has a little Perique in it which is pretty powerful in the nicotine department. As others have mentioned, Perique is made from Burley, which has the highest nicotine content of the main tobacco varieties. Also, there's a huge difference between Cyprian and Syrian Latakia. Syrian has a whopping nicotine content (more than Burley if I recall correctly), where Cyprian is far milder. Most of the Latakia found in pipe tobacco today is the Cyprian variety.

Try GLP Meridian, Dunhill Standard Mixture Medium, or Dunhill London Mixture if you want a nice, medium English blend which is forgiving with the nicotine..

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

if latakia is lower In nicotine, what's up with as I'll call it the "nightcap coma"? Maybe this is all just beyond my understanding, the nicotine content is irrelevant to me anyway just interesting.

There are some mixtures that are exceptions to the average, and they are blended and or designed to be stout and the tobacco strain/varietal used to make them plays a significant role in this. Nightcap is one of those blends. Just because Nightcap is high in N, does not mean that all full flavored Latakia blends are as well. Some experimentation with trying full flavored Lats will reveal to you the difference between tobacco flavor strength and nicotine strength.

This can also be applied to other mixtures as well. For instance Royal Yacht is a very stout VA blend with full flavor and a tremendous nicotine kick and supposedly it contains none of the leaf that's usually the butt-kicking culprit. This suggests that the strain(s) of VA used in RY is bred or cultivated to be loaded with N. Go figure, & just a guess really.

 

[jonnylaw13]

E and D.A.B. I'd say your last two replies were perfectly explanatory. And as for my OP and a bunch of binging I'm going to say that "double English" is just a made up term since all searches of "double English" came up with only Comoy's cask no1.