English vs Balkan (again)

[idbowman]

Alright, I know this isn't the first thread about the differences between English and Balkan blends, and I'm well aware that there are a few worthwhile articles floating around out there. I'm not looking for an explanation of what the two are - I feel like I have a farirly good grip on that, at least academically.

For my purposes, I'm mostly operating under the assumption that Englishes are generally Latakia forward with VA underneath (not necessarily to the exclusion of all other leaves such as perique and orientals), while Balkans generally make use of Latakia as well, although the presence of oriential/turkish/balkan leaf is present in greater quantity and feature prominently in the overall smoke. I realize that there's no universal truth as far as these definitions go, but from everything I've read this where things seem to tend to settle, more or less.

Of course having that sorted out in my head (sort of) and experiencing it by putting flame to leaf are two totally different animals. So, I'm looking for your thoughts on what blends would make for the best side-by-side comparison of English vs. Balkan. If I wanted to smoke an archetype English blend, then smoke an archetype Balkan blend (yeah, yeah...perfectly subjective, I know) what would you suggest?

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Geez, all the dead horse topics are coming about lately. :lol: :cheers:

:getspopcorn:

8)

 

[Gumball]

If I wanted to smoke an archetype English blend, then smoke an archetype Balkan blend (yeah, yeah...perfectly subjective, I know) what would you suggest?

Not sure if these would count as 'archetype' blends but I would try Gawith, Hoggarth & Co 'Balkan Mixture' and Ashton 'Artisans Blend'. I think these are both widely available on your side of the pond (otherwise I would suggest Squadron Leader as the go-to English blend).

 

[idbowman]

Geez, all the dead horse topics are coming about lately. :lol: :cheers:

:getspopcorn:

8)

Which reminds me...with or without ketchup, I'm good either way. 8)

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Geez, all the dead horse topics are coming about lately. :lol: :cheers:

:getspopcorn:

8)

Which reminds me...with or without ketchup, I'm good either way. 8)

Olive oil and ketchup on popcorn--I've tried both. :lol:

8)

 

[Carlos]

I would stick to the same blender for a good comparison of English vs Balkan. And for this type of knock-down-drag-out I would choose GL Pease.

Maybe Caravan vs Samarra, or Odyssey vs Abingdon.

Actually, Greg has a wide selection of both styles to choose from. More Balkan's I believe. You could mix and match knowing that the same master created them all and with similar tobaccos. And as new, rare condiment leaf became available, you can see what he has done with it.

 

[monbla256]

If you want to stay with one blender's fare, Dunhill produced some of the traditional examples of these genre's of 'bac. For an English, My Mixture 965 was always considered a 'bac to compare to and their Standard Mixture Mild ( the Full is not blended anymore) was always looked upon as a very fine Balkan type of blend. For a Balkan which comes closest to the "archtypal" Balkan, Sobranie 759, I would recomend some McClellands Oriental #14 as being in the same level as it was , Latakia/Oriental wise. These are just my suggestions and I'm sure you will get quite a few more which ought to get you more thouroughly confused :twisted:

 

[jj1015]

I would stick to the same blender for a good comparison of English vs Balkan. And for this type of knock-down-drag-out I would choose GL Pease.

Maybe Caravan vs Samarra, or Odyssey vs Abingdon.

Actually, Greg has a wide selection of both styles to choose from. More Balkan's I believe. You could mix and match knowing that the same master created them all and with similar tobaccos. And as new, rare condiment leaf became available, you can see what he has done with it.

Why would you pick Odyssey vs. Abingdon? They're both "Balkans," at least according to GLP.

 

[jj1015]

This is a thorny topic, as you have already guessed. There's even a push going on right now to drop the label "Balkan" altogether.
Traditionally, English mixtures contain VAs and latakia but may also include orientals, cavendish, perique, etc. When I think of an English, I think of a balanced mixture that is mainly VAs and latakia but may include other stuff.

Balkans are usually blends that feature the oriental leaf in the leading role (latakia plus other oriental leaves). They may have other components, but you're mainly looking at an oriental-forward mixture. To my taste buds, Balkans are distinguished by their complexity more than anything, with lots of notes that remind me of incense.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[greasemunki85]

Geez, all the dead horse topics are coming about lately. :lol: :cheers:

:getspopcorn:

8)

Which reminds me...with or without ketchup, I'm good either way. 8)

Olive oil and ketchup on popcorn--I've tried both. :lol:

8)

ahh tinderbox has two new blends?!

 

[Harlock999]

(otherwise I would suggest Squadron Leader as the go-to English blend).

Seems a little silly to debate "English" blends with an Englishman, but I consider Squadron Leader to be more of a "Balkan" blend, due to the higher "Oriental" content.
There, that's my quota of quotation marks for the day.

 

[Matches Von Clausewitz]

From the horse;s mouth:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/what-is-a-balkan-blend/

In short, the distinction is largely meaningless. The "orientals up front" criteria for Balkan blends doesn't appear to be grounded in any kind of "tobacco history." Never mind the fact that latakia is essentially a sub-species of oriental, the idea that Balkans are in any way distinguishable from English blends...especially based on portions of latakia vs. oriental...makes blends such as Saml Gawith's Balkan Flake anomalous: since Balkan flake allegedly has only Virginia and latakia in it.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

The distinction is one thing, the discussion is another...yet they end up on the same side of that field, anyway. Fools! :lol: Gives the article writers something easy to stir the pot when the pipesters start fretting over whether or not FVF will be available soon, because a quarter ton of it in the coat closet isn't enough.

Meanwhile, if the momentum keeps going, there'll be sub-distinctions from someone claiming a "Sarajevo" -style Balkan. I mean, Lakeland or Jersey can't have all the fun in England.

8)

 

[monbla256]

Sarajevo Balkan! Now you've let the cat out of the bag Kyle! That was our secret :twisted: Now all the rest of the Bob's 'l want to know about it :evil:

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Since the Age of Irony will lap it up so well, the fact it isn't truly made in a Balkan region (or Sarajevo, for that matter) will only add to the allure. :lol:

8)

 

[riff raff]

This is a thorny topic, as you have already guessed. There's even a push going on right now to drop the label "Balkan" altogether.
Traditionally, English mixtures contain VAs and latakia but may also include orientals, cavendish, perique, etc. When I think of an English, I think of a balanced mixture that is mainly VAs and latakia but may include other stuff.

Balkans are usually blends that feature the oriental leaf in the leading role (latakia plus other oriental leaves). They may have other components, but you're mainly looking at an oriental-forward mixture. To my taste buds, Balkans are distinguished by their complexity more than anything, with lots of notes that remind me of incense.

But that's just my two cents.

I think those two cents sum it up quite nicely, well said.

 

[jj1015]

From the horse;s mouth:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/what-is-a-balkan-blend/

In short, the distinction is largely meaningless. The "orientals up front" criteria for Balkan blends doesn't appear to be grounded in any kind of "tobacco history." Never mind the fact that latakia is essentially a sub-species of oriental, the idea that Balkans are in any way distinguishable from English blends...especially based on portions of latakia vs. oriental...makes blends such as Saml Gawith's Balkan Flake anomalous: since Balkan flake allegedly has only Virginia and latakia in it.

Well, to some folks it's largely meaningless. I actually like the distinction and still use it, as most of the time I don't find it very difficult to tell the difference between an English and a Balkan..... But that's just me.

 

[idbowman]

From the horse;s mouth:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/what-is-a-balkan-blend/

In short, the distinction is largely meaningless. The "orientals up front" criteria for Balkan blends doesn't appear to be grounded in any kind of "tobacco history." Never mind the fact that latakia is essentially a sub-species of oriental, the idea that Balkans are in any way distinguishable from English blends...especially based on portions of latakia vs. oriental...makes blends such as Saml Gawith's Balkan Flake anomalous: since Balkan flake allegedly has only Virginia and latakia in it.

Well, to some folks it's largely meaningless. I actually like the distinction and still use it, as most of the time I don't find it very difficult to tell the difference between an English and a Balkan..... But that's just me.

The definition you gave is pretty close to the one that I'm using, to begin with...which brings me back to the original question: what blends would you suggest as examples of each?

 

[lb]

From the horse;s mouth:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/what-is-a-balkan-blend/

In short, the distinction is largely meaningless. The "orientals up front" criteria for Balkan blends doesn't appear to be grounded in any kind of "tobacco history." Never mind the fact that latakia is essentially a sub-species of oriental, the idea that Balkans are in any way distinguishable from English blends...especially based on portions of latakia vs. oriental...makes blends such as Saml Gawith's Balkan Flake anomalous: since Balkan flake allegedly has only Virginia and latakia in it.

Well, to some folks it's largely meaningless. I actually like the distinction and still use it, as most of the time I don't find it very difficult to tell the difference between an English and a Balkan..... But that's just me.

The definition you gave is pretty close to the one that I'm using, to begin with...which brings me back to the original question: what blends would you suggest as examples of each?

Straightforward answer: Try Stokkeby proper english and balkan supreme.They are examples of what balkan and english are.

 

[Carlos]

I would stick to the same blender for a good comparison of English vs Balkan. And for this type of knock-down-drag-out I would choose GL Pease.

Maybe Caravan vs Samarra, or Odyssey vs Abingdon.

Actually, Greg has a wide selection of both styles to choose from. More Balkan's I believe. You could mix and match knowing that the same master created them all and with similar tobaccos. And as new, rare condiment leaf became available, you can see what he has done with it.

Why would you pick Odyssey vs. Abingdon? They're both "Balkans," at least according to GLP.

Well, I thought I screwed up. But Odyssey is loaded with Cyprian Latakia. So I went looking I cannot find where he says it's English or Balkan. I suppose I have always thought of it as his biggest English blend for some reason.