First, second, who can tell???

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paulbookbinder

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Long time pipe smoker, but I have only recently started reading books and forums on the subject to educate myself. Now I find myself getting more confused than educated. I keep reading about the elusive "first" - some books say one in 50 bags of briar blocks will yield a true first, others say 5 percent of blocks are firsts, Dunhill says 7 percent of blocks make it into their pipes, and 1/2 percent are good enough for the root briar line. How do I know if my pipes are "firsts" or "seconds", and more importantly do I care???? I assume my Peterson Arans are seconds, at around 80 bucks a piece, while my Sherlock Holmes and my Silver Mount Supreme sure as heck better be firsts for 300 buckaroos ! How can I tell a first from a second? Are certain lines within manufacturers always seconds or always firsts, or can you just not be sure?

thanks,


Paul
 
There's no fixed rule as to what makes a "1st" or not. Each manufacturer has their own standards and tolerances.



So for example, a Peterson Sherlock Holmes series pipe is a pretty expensive pipe, but Peterson is totally candid about that series possibly having fills on the smooth pipes, whereas a Royal Irish or a Deluxe would not. This doesn't mean that the Sherlock series pipes are some kind of reject.

Sometimes a pipe with unlovely or slightly aesthetically flawed briar will become a wonderful sandblast - again, we don't consider that a defect.



Speaking as a pipemaker, I could argue that very few manufacturers produce anything like a "first". Most pipes have some kind of flaw, be it in the briar or the engineering. Depends on what your standards are.

Really, I wouldn't worry about it much. It's not a definition that has much meaning. Most brands send "seconds" or rejects out under some other name - Stanwell has no "seconds" quality pipes under their own name, but the "Danish Sovereign" brand is just that - Stanwell rejects.
 
I agree it can be confusing. Much of the literature that mentions "firsts" and "seconds" are using information and methods of grading pushing 20 (or far more) years in age, and I'm not even sure those "scales" are accurate anymore, as lofty and opinionated as they were when they were first published--let alone standards from maker to maker.

I have discovered there are lines of pipes that re specifically labeled "Seconds," or there's a totally different line that may or may not reflect the original manufacturer's name. From what I understand on how mid- and large-sized companies make pipes, they get huge lots of briar, and they do they best they can judging which will make the best pipes, but it's the hidden stuff that often makes a "Second," or as Sas said, an engineering flaw.

This is all just what I've been gathering as of late.

Smokability aside, there's a whole other interesting realm in the "Seconds" area that I'm interested in, personally. There's some good deals out there on 'em.
 
paulbookbinder":778blgp0 said:
Long time pipe smoker, but I have only recently started reading books and forums on the subject to educate myself. Now I find myself getting more confused than educated. I keep reading about the elusive "first" - some books say one in 50 bags of briar blocks will yield a true first, others say 5 percent of blocks are firsts, Dunhill says 7 percent of blocks make it into their pipes, and 1/2 percent are good enough for the root briar line. How do I know if my pipes are "firsts" or "seconds", and more importantly do I care???? I assume my Peterson Arans are seconds, at around 80 bucks a piece, while my Sherlock Holmes and my Silver Mount Supreme sure as heck better be firsts for 300 buckaroos ! How can I tell a first from a second? Are certain lines within manufacturers always seconds or always firsts, or can you just not be sure?

thanks,


Paul
Click to expand...
I wouldn't take any of what you've read too seriously. "Firsts" are what the pipe maker says they are. If he/they say it's a "first", it's a first. Same with "Seconds".

The Dunhill statement sounds like total hype to me. If I was getting a 7% yield from my briar, I would definitely find a new source. :lol:

I lose about 5-7% of my briar blocks to fatal flaws in the wood. The rest are made into "Firsts". ;)

Rad

 
You make "firsts" now Rad? Right on.

I think one big difference in briar yield is that if you are frazing out a shape, there's basically no freedom to change the pipe if you hit a flaw. The pipe is shaped to completion and THEN inspected, rather than shaped with flaws taken into consideration. It's much harder to cut a little tiny "Bing's Favorite" type of billiard and have it free of any visible briar flaws than to cut a huge freehand which can be "any shape" in a sense.

In a very real sense, there's two seperate issues: What is "first" quality is one, and "does a pipe have to be flawless to be first quality?" is another.
 
Sasquatch":n5k2oksv said:
"does a pipe have to be flawless to be first quality?"
Click to expand...
Which brings me to a pet peeve of mine,,,,if I'm buying a relatively inexpensive pipe, I'd rather have the pits than fill them in with all that putty ,,,,,,it looks like crap, the stain doesn't match, and after all, it's the real thing,,,let it stay natural. First quality to me is how well it smokes, not if it's pretty. ,,, on a fifty dollar pipe a few pits just adds to the character,,,maybe it's just me,,,I don't know,,,
 
Sasquatch":9ij8vlf2 said:
In a very real sense, there's two seperate issues: What is "first" quality is one, and "does a pipe have to be flawless to be first quality?" is another.
Click to expand...
Like I said, "First Quality" is whatever the pipe maker says it is. It's totally up to him. Or them. Collectors and books about pipes don't determine this.

Petersons have grades with fills all through them, but they are "First Quality" for that grade, whatever it is. Else they woudn't get stamped with the Peterson name. "First Quality" for that grade says fills are ok. "First Quality" for a higher grade says fills aren't ok, and they have to be smooth, so they are smooth and don't have fills.

I've re-blasted a bunch of Dunhill Shells for a customer of mine. They all had fills, except for the tan blasts. Flaws are why they were blasted. A pipe that's filled in spots and then blasted and stained dark can be a "First" if the manufacturer says so. Dunhill says so.

It's up to the manufacturer and nobody else to determine what a "First" is.

Rad
 
Paul,

I thank you for asking this question because I learned a lot from this as well. As I'm still on the search for my first briar pipe, I now have a better, if still a little cloudy, understanding of a first and second pipe. Thanks again for asking and thanks to all who responded. Always know that one question and answer can help so many more than just one person.

-Zach
 
To me a first, is one that doesn't have fills, I would rather have the pits visible. Some makers intentionally make "seconds", some send their castoffs to be rebranded, and a very few destroy flawed briar.. Expect to pay for what you get though.
 
Wow, I appreciate all the responses. I did not know we had distinguished pipe makers here on the forum, it is an honor to receive their opinions. I will take the opportunity to ask the pipe makers themselves a question, rather a prejudice, I have always believed - if the briar is perfect and beautiful it will always be made into a smooth pipe, so if it rusticated or blasted it must, by definition, have some flaw that would render it unsightly as a smooth. True or not? - do you guys sometimes take a piece of briar that would (in your opinion) make a delightfully beautiful smooth, and make the choice to blast or rusticate it just because it seems to suit your fancy or the overall design of the pipe?


thank you again,


Paul
 
To me a first is any pipe that feels good in the hand, is comfortable to clench and smokes like a champ every time. If you spend too much time looking at your pipe while you're smoking it, you'll go cross-eyed....nobody wants that :lol!:
 
In a small shop/artisan's lair, if briar is perfect and beautiful, it will be made into a smooth pipe a very large percent of the time, yes. Lots of pipes are wonderful with the exception of a little flaw or two, and they make really nice sandblasts because of grain orientation and briar quality (a good sandblast is not a "lucky" thing).

Personally, I will blast or rusticate depending on my own mood or the client's request. Unless a smooth is really exceptional and it would be sort of a shame to obliterate it, then I don't mind at all to do whatever finish a customer wants. So oftentimes I'll show a guy a pipe at a mostly-done sort of stage and we'll talk about preferred finish. Some guys just want a sandblasted pipe, and I'm not necessarily going to abandon a pipe 7/8ths through simply because it's "too nice" to sandblast. The guy gets a nice sandblast, so what??

Certainly it is NOT the case that blasted or rusticated pipes from a small shop are somehow inferior as smokers - I think we all have pretty high standards about what kind of briar we are willing to put our names on. I just rusticated two pipes simply because I wanted to try a different tooling approach, for example, but I didn't do it on pieces that had stunning grain. Just "ordinary" briar.
 
PS Rad thinks "distinguished" means "had a bath this week", so don't be surprised if he doesn't post again. :shock:
 
Here I am, posting again. I had a shower just this morning. :lol:

Like Saquatch, unless a pipe has pretty spectacular graining, I will blast it. A good blast looks better to me than a clean smooth with just ok grain. Plus, it's an easier sale, because it's less expensive.

Rad
 
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