High End Savinellis and Fills

[Pipe'n Prof]

So about a year ago I got so tired of the maintenance required of vulcanite stems that I traded my entire collection of old Dunhill LB pipes (about 12 if I remember correctly) to Smoking Pipes for store credit. With that credit I decided to buy 14 high end Savinellis (punto oros and giubileo d’oros) with acrylic stems. I liked the idea of the Savinelli 101 shape, so I snapped up four of them in various finishes. It is a stocky billiard like a Dunhill LB. These higher end Savinellis all claimed to have hand cut stems, and upon first inspection checked all the boxes for me (I could live with the sloppy duckbill stems as long as they weren’t vulcanite).

Before I made the trade, I did a lot of research on Savinelli’s higher end pipes. Sykes, SP’s owner, posted in another forum that as far as standard shapes go that Savinelli pipes ranked in the following order in terms of aesthetic perfection (ie, free of fills and blemishes);

Giubeo D’oro
Punto Oro Classic
Punto Oro Gold

Prices follow accordingly. A new Giubeo D’oro runs about $550. A new PO classic about $330. And a new PO Gold about $250.

In my mind, these are all high-end pipe prices (I know that’s open for interpretation). For those prices, I expect a high end pipe free of fills, imperfections, and drilled perfectly.

One year later, here’s my report. As some of you may know, as you smoke a pipe it darkens and fills become visible. I can say that my Giubileo D’Oros do not have fills. But all my Punto Oros do! The Punto Oro Golds all have medium to large fills. The Punto Oro Classics (a $330 pipe mind you) all have multiple small fills. I’ve attached a photo of one below.

When I was doing my research on this brand, I would have loved to read a review like this from another smoker. It would have completely dissuaded me from the brand. A $300 pipe with fills?!?! No way in my book.

All the pipes smoke wonderfully, but I would have been better off just trading for lower end Savinellis in the $100 range. They all have fills unless you are going to pony up for the $550 Giubileo D’oro.

Hopefully this post can prevent someone else from making the same mistake I did. I’d love to press rewind on that trade now.

 

[Ranger107]

I guess it depends on how much value you put on looks vs smokeability. I have 2 Estella Non Pareils but as they are rusticated I have never looked for fills. However, they are both 80s vintage pipes. I also have 2 Romas with acrylic stems that smoke just as well and they were both less than $100.

 

[Pipe'n Prof]

Good point. I value both looks and smokeability. And the more I pay for a pipe, the more both become increasingly important. At a low price point, say, less than $150, I don't really expect either will be great. Often they are, but I don't expect it. At $250 or greater, I start expecting both to be great. When we start pushing $300 or more, I am quite disappointed with a pipe that has issues with either.

 

[Zeno Marx]

This would stroke my fur the wrong way too. I've considered starting a website with just this kind of information/feedback, but I've been wary of an enterprise that could be construed as negative. That's the thing: I think some users, especially those with stores and financial skin in the game, would see this as unnecessarily negative. I'm not one of those. I feel this is crucial information, and that is not hyperbole.

I've never really liked smooth pipes for partially this reason. I'll avoid going into the weeds with my opinion. I did purchase an old/new stock Stanwell a few years ago that I thought was a middle-upper line pipe that, like yours, had an expertly disguised fill after I smoked it 20+ times. I know some makers just don't see it the same way as I do, but let's be candid. Price does play into this situation. The Danes can be especially egregious about this. A $4K pipe from so-and-so great carver with a fill or carved spot that we know is there because of a flaw. Their saving grace is that they don't try to hide it.

 

[Singed]

@Pipe'n Prof I agree with your expectations here. At $500.00 I expect exceptional qualilty, materials, manufacture, and performance. Anything above that is a prestige item, by whatever guage you use. My pipes are entry level, with only two real exceptions and neither of those is worth $250.00 (I assume all figures are in U$). I would be gravely disappointed to find multiple fills in a pipe of that bracket (per your exemplar) and would be looking for remuneration or compensation.

Quality is not a reflection of price, price is a reflection of quality. Unfortunately, theory and practice rarely meet in a modern market.

 

[Pipe'n Prof]

Yes, my intention is never to hurt someone's business. And in this case, it is certainly not to badmouth SP (I just ordered 2 pipes from them this week). Rather, it is to provide future buyers with information, information that was not available to me but would have been very useful when making a decision. Many pipers don't care about fills, so in that case, I would say Savinellis are great. Buy one. They have always been incredible smokers for me, and I think their lower end pipes are a tremendous value. To present Punto Oros as a higher end line, though, to me is just not being entirely truthful. I can buy a lower end smooth pipe from Savinelli, such as a Sienna, in the same shape and finish for $115 (1/3 the price of a Savinelli Punto Oro Classic). If both the Punto Oro and Sienna have fills, what really is the difference? A hand cut stem? They are both likely to be good smokers, and they both have fills -- multiple fills in my experience. Knowing what I know now, I'd take 3 Siennas any day over one Punto Oro, or better yet, save my $300 and buy a Radice Clear, which has no fills. Buyers should know this information, so they can make an informed decision with their money.

 

[Puff Daddy]

Unless they advertise a line of pipes as fill-free, I’m not sure that’s really a legitimate compaint. You can hope, but to expect it isn’t reasonable. I’m sure the tier pricing depends on the grading of the block, the amount of handwork put into the pipe, and the aesthetics of the final product (grain, finishing). You sort your work and price accordingly but unless some claim of perfection is made, it’s just another pipe.

 

[Pipe'n Prof]

Unless they advertise a line of pipes as fill-free, I’m not sure that’s really a legitimate compaint. You can hope, but to expect it isn’t reasonable. I’m sure the tier pricing depends on the grading of the block, the amount of handwork put into the pipe, and the aesthetics of the final product (grain, finishing). You sort your work and price accordingly but unless some claim of perfection is made, it’s just another pipe.

I'm not aware of many brands that advertise "fill-free." Even Dunhill, which purportedly has never used fills, has never to my knowledge advertised their pipes as "fill free." If someone saw a fill on a Dunhill they just purchased, though, they may be a bit disappointed. I certainly would.

I am making no formal complaint to anyone, just sharing information so that other pipe smokers can make an informed choice when spending significant amounts of money. There is a thread in another widely visited pipe forum that discusses "high quality pipes and fills," and the majority of people chiming in that thread expect there to be no fills in a $200+ pipe. I think there are a lot of knowledgeable pipe smokers who make that assumption. That's why I shared my story. The assumption is entirely wrong when it comes to Savinellis. The assumption is correct to my knowledge when it comes to, say, Dunhill, Castello, or Radice (just three factory brands off the top of my head that I have never heard mention of using fills). If a $330 pipe from any of those competing brands can be reliably bought without a fill, why would one think there would be fills in Savinellis at the same price point?

 

[Zeno Marx]

Some brands wouldn't think of using putty in their pipes, so they don't go near the word. Nobody talks about it, but some don't need to talk about it because it isn't in their toolbox. And that's why some also had their 2nd, 3rd, etc lines of pipes; to dump the lesser wood. If you bought a Charatan, you knew you weren't going to get fill, but if you bought a Chippendale made by Charatan, you could bet on finding a fill or four. Same shapes and similar craftsmanship, but a big difference in briar quality.

 

[Davy]

@Pipe'n Prof , sorry to hear this. Your position is absolutely sound, in my opinion. Savinelli pipes are not what they used to be.

 

[William Ziegler]

@Pipe'n Prof , sorry to hear this. Your position is absolutely sound, in my opinion. Savinelli pipes are not what they used to be.

Such is the case IMHO. I own 3 Sav. Autographs - 2 sand blast one with beautiful grain. All were purchased in the late 60s and early 70s and were gifted to me after the owner's death - a professor I had in college. Autographs were top of the line back then, and there are NO fills. I also own some GdOs and they are w/o fills, purchased by me in the 70s. I think the grading standards have lessened thru the years. However I own 2 GBD Uniques dating to the late 70s and one has a fill. Among my Dunhills and Charatans there are no fills.

 

[William Ziegler]

Singed a little too dark in my gazebo now, but will post some tomorrow. I found it on eBay 20 yrs ago. Paid about $100 for it. It's beautiful with green glass and oynox inserts, all brass and metal. I have no idea what it came out of, but thought perhaps a smoker car on trains of the era.

 

[William Ziegler]

Singed a little too dark in my gazebo now, but will post some tomorrow. I found it on eBay 20 yrs ago. Paid about $100 for it. It's beautiful with green glass and oynox inserts, all brass and metal. I have no idea what it came out of, but thought perhaps a smoker car on trains of the era.

Ok Singed, here you go. It's really a jewel when I have friends over for cigar night. It's missing two of its green glass ash tray inserts. It's has a nice verdigri.