I'm all for a free market and the laws of supply and demand

[Thomas Tkach]

I bought at P&C in August when they had 20% off sitewide.

Notice that they are sold out. It's obviously worth that much to some people. I have no problem with them charging as much as they want. If it's ridiculous, no one will buy it. But it's obviously worth that much to someone for some reason (maybe just hype).

I still don't know why Jermain's doesn't increase production on Esoterica. They could obviously charge more than they do, based on eBay prices.

I personally choose to smoke things that are cheaper and more available. I won't be paying that much for tobacco when there are so many good blends out there.

I do think it's funny how often people say 'I believe in free markets, but...' then go on to share how they think letting the market set the value of something is ridiculous. It's basically like saying 'I hate smoking aromatics, but smoking a tobacco that isn't chocolate-vanilla-rum-gummi-bear flavored is ridiculous. :scratch:

 

[Kyle Weiss]

All I know is Esoterica and the new B. Sobranie are very "meh" tobaccos in Weissland. For the price, even more to that fact.

Also, Mike Rutt over at http://www.marscigars.com/ has to be one of the most stand-up dudes and best purveyors of online tobacco sales. He might be a few bucks more than some guys, but he's cheaper on a lot of his stuff than some of the larger online retailers. He's also willing to special order stuff the other guys can't or won't. He occasionally has issues with credit cards, but I still go out of my way to do business with the guy when I can. Being old-school in a tech world has its drawbacks and benefits.

8)

 

[Dave_In_Philly]

I do think it's funny how often people say 'I believe in free markets, but...' then go on to share how they think letting the market set the value of something is ridiculous. It's basically like saying 'I hate smoking aromatics, but smoking a tobacco that isn't :scratch:

To be fair, I think it's more akin to saying, "I like Aromatics, but chocolate-vanilla-rum-gummi-bear flavored is ridiculous."

The concept of a free market requires rational players on all sides. Just ask the meat packers of the early 20th century what happens when each side doesn't/can't bargain equally/rationally. FWIW, my issue is not with P&C as much as it is with those of us who enable them to inflate the prices beyond rational levels. My guess is 400 years ago, we'd would have been really into tulips.

 

[Feazelle-n-it]

As I've said before on a similar topic, if its out of my price range I just pick something else. They are always going to jack the prices on the popular stuff because people will buy it. I just find something else. If people stop buying then they will lower prices again or go out of business. Either way I don't care. There will ALWAYS be another blend I can try that's cheaper. If you don't like the price, find something else.

Climbing off my soapbox now.

 

[Thomas Tkach]

The thing is, I would argue that P&C are under-pricing Esoterica and BS because they're out of stock. If you check the eBay listings, Penzance is going for $100/tin and $130/bag. What's ridiculous is that P&C isn't charging $100/8 oz bag and $80/tin.

I do agree that sometimes the market is silly because something gets hyped and everyone wants it. I think there are lots of "Indie" pipe makers out there that people love and snap up their work like hotcakes, but the fit, finish, and design are REALLY amateur looking. Like I said earlier, I won't pay those prices, and I personally think it's ridiculous that some people do. But I think they should be free to do that, and that P&C and whoever else should be free to charge what people will pay, including the sub-par 'indie carvers'. This is agreeing with supply and demand, but thinking the demand is ridiculous in this instance. I think this is where you're coming from, so the following might not directly apply, Dave.

Though I agree it's ridiculous in the above sense, I don't think we can blame the retailers as some people here are doing. As I stated above, they're charging WAY less than what demand dictates. When we say that people should charge what we want, not what the market dictates, we're throwing S&D out the window. Some people here almost seem to be advocating some sort of price fixing where no tin of tobacco should cost more than $15 or something. This is a clear disregard for market economics, and if that's what you think, just say so. But too many people start off with 'I believe in market economics' before talking about how the price should be voluntarily set by retailers at some arbitrary level that internet forum pundits find acceptable.

PS, some of us still are into T.U.L.I.P. (sorry for the niche joke).

 

[Richard Burley]

The thing is, I would argue that P&C are under-pricing Esoterica and BS because they're out of stock. If you check the eBay listings, Penzance is going for $100/tin and $130/bag. What's ridiculous is that P&C isn't charging $100/8 oz bag and $80/tin.

Totally agree, 100%, no "buts."  Actually, even "gouging" in extreme circumstances like water in a drought or gasoline in a shortage can be easily defended by a competent economist.  No, not Paul Krugman.  Try George Reisman's Capitalism or at least Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson.  And there's nothing "silly" about the market.  It's people who are silly, and I wouldn't be caught dead paying these prices for pipe tobacco.  But the point is that at a certain price the tobacco would at least be available if you found yourself in sudden need.  (I'm thinking of Penzance here; the BS they can stick in their distal orifice.)

 

[Bullwinkle]

profit is not a evil word.. if I make X product and I sell it at Y dollars and I'm always sold out and can't get/make more product than I currently do. I certainly would keep rising the price until sales slowed and evidently they sold out at $34 a tin so next time he might take it to $39.

 

[monbla256]

This same whine keeps coming around though it's with different stuff, ie pipes from this maker, blends from that blender! It's called CAPITOLISM guys and those who can or will pay the prices sked get the goodies !! I CAN"T pay prices like that so I just look for something else to smoke. Have I missed something to experience smoking wise since I can't afford it?, yes but that's not the end of the world and does not diminish my smoking experience. It's just how it is and life's waaaay tooooo short to let something like that occupy my mind or feelings ! As the song says".... that's life!" JMHO :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[idbowman]

profit is not a evil word..  if I make X product and I sell it at Y dollars and I'm always sold out and can't get/make more product than I currently do. I certainly would keep rising the price until sales slowed and evidently they sold out at $34 a tin so next time he might take it to $39.  

Aye.

The truth is, in a way I'm HAPPY that some of the online outfits are able to sell these things for so much profit. First, it shows a continued interest in our hobby. Second, the more profitable a company is the more viable it is that they remain in business. If people want to pay $40 for a $15 tin, they get what they want, and the company gets what they want - all the while, they're able to continue selling me tins of GLP, McC, C&D, and a million other brands at prices that I consider VERY fair.

If there's sufficient interest from buyers at whatever price point the seller sets, everyone leaves happy. Since most of us (myself included) that aren't willing to pay those prices for those prices have plenty of other products in our price ranges which satisfy our needs and wants, I'm not sure I see much of a problem.

 

[RobJ]

If I want it bad enough I'll pay the asking price, whatever that might be, and if I don't I don't buy it. This seems to have worked well for me since I was a kid. If I feel I'm somehow being gouged I'll go elsewhere or do without. I'm a pretty simple man I suppose.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I think it's a bet between all the owners of the various tobacco websites, or perhaps a drinking game: raise the prices on some unobtainium/remake-of-yesteryear tobacco and watch all the old men (and young coots alike) grumble, bitch and shake their canes at the world. :lol: Kind of like offering chocolate cake to a beauty pageant and taking bets which beauty is gonna be the first to sneak off and gorge, then rush to self-barf all over the ladies' room.

Fortunately there's plenty of cake... I mean tobacco...for any and all. :heart:

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