Italian vs English Pipes

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Grayhackel

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I've a soft spot for English pipes, but have bought a couple of Italians last year - a Becker & Musico and a Le Nuvole. Both of these pipes are beautiful, but don't taste like my Upshalls, Ashtons, Ferndown, or even my older, lower end GBD's, BBB's and Comoy's. My Italian pipes seem to smoke hotter and the smoke doesn't taste as dark and rich as what I get from the English pipes when smoking the same tobaccos.. Or my American pipes like the old Josts and Bertrams or my Tinsky and Wiley. I know that two pipes don't allow for a fair comparison, but am skittish about buying another Italian. Is there a difference between these nationalities of pipes, is it just me, or is it just the individual Italian pipes or brands that I bought? For the record, I'm not saying that they are not good pipes, but my two are not among my favorites. I also know that this may just be me or my imagination and that there is no right answer here, but I am interested in your opinions and experiences.
 
There are a number of factors that might be at play here, Gray.

First, my guess is that both your new Italians have acrylic stems. This can make a pipe feel very different, and somewhat "cold". Second, I find (and I think others do as well) that Italian pipes often mute certain flavors - they are a very soft smoke, and offer a very round flavor profile, if that makes any sense. Third, a lot of Italian pipes have larger bowl and are drilled at almost double the airway size of traditional English pipes which makes them behave slightly differently given the same puffing pressure....

Personally, I love Italian pipes, and I buy em with no hesitation.
 
I went through this same dilemma last year. I am frankly so tired of worrying about oxidation on valcanite stems that the harder Italina stems are comforting. The value you get in an Italian pipe, compare to the big English, American, and the great Danes names is significant. The first couple of Italian’s I bought were well broken in estates, and I didn’t notice any significant taste difference. The new Italians have a “brighter” taste on the first couple smokes, which I attributed to simply a different briar. Outside of that, I found that the open airways suited my smoking habits much better and can make a marginal packing job still smoke well. The bowl capacity compared to the size of the pipes can border on gluttony. I have a Radice that fits nicely in my pocket, but can easily be a 1.5 hours bowl. I think you have to smoke em’ casually like you are flirting with woman whose language you haven’t quit mastered yet on a warm Tuscan afternoon, almost timid and careful, but persistent, because the reward is wonderful. An example...
<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2nrka" loading="lazy" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Hmmm...I found this interesting!! Only comment is ...My Italian pipes (Caminetto, Radice, Ser Jac's, Don Carlos, and others) all smoke extremely well :cheers: FTRPLT
 
I prefer the classic shapes & smaller size of the English pipes (GBD's & Dunnies in my case) but am very happy with the smoking qualities of my Mastro de Pajas, Ser Jacopo, Radice & Castello.
 
My first thought when I read the original post was "HERESY!!!!!" I only have one English pipe (not including my Peterson), a Comoy poker, which I absolutely love. The vulcanite stem is manageable now since Sasquatch turned me on to some not so secret stuff. I have no problem with any of my Italians smoking hot, and the stems feel very comfortable (Viprati, Moretti, Spanu, Santambrogio, Croci, and Mastro de Paja), all acrylic.

But you gotta go with what feels best. Right now I'm sitting here smoking a very nice Rhodesian from Nanook from the North, Sasquatch with a cumberland stem. The pipe rocks over a similar Rhodesian from Mastro de Paja. The balance is better on Todd's pipe than the Mastro. Nevertheless, whether I'm smoking a featherweight or something large, all my Italians are cool smoking, and with the exception of the Mastro are incredibly well balanced. The Mastro was a gift however, so it is a pipe I probably wouldn't have chosen for myself.

If you like the English pipes, stick with them. Different smokes for different tastes. I find that Marco Biagini's pipes for right now are the thing for me. His work feels like he is making each pipe just for me.

:farao:
 
Somehow, I like being accused of heresy. A personality quirk, I guess.

Thanks for the responses. They were all useful. I was particularly interested in the comments about why I might notice a difference between the pipes. The best advice was to smoke what you like. On the other hand I also suspect that there is truth in the statement that Italian pipes are good value. And I'm not saying that my Italian pipes are bad smokers, just that I don't find them as satisfying as my English pipes. Therefore, I won't give up on Italian pipes, but will move slowly. But then again, I have about fifty English and only two Italian.

Lacking a B&M where I can actually look at Italian pipes, its going to be difficult to identify pipes with the specific characteristics, measurements etc affecting taste. At this point, therefore, I'm open to suggestions for my next Italian pipe. I'm looking for an Italian pipe suitable for the smoker of English pipes. I'm willing to go up to $150 in the estate market and prefer conservative shapes. Suggestions would be gratefully received.
 
Grayhackel,
Two Italian brands that I would highly recommend and have found you can't go wrong with are of course Castello the granddaddy of Italian pipes or my #1 favorite pipe brand Cavicchi. You may find an estate Castello Sea Rock on Ebay in your price range but finding a Cavicchi for about $150 should not be a problem and the Cavicchi is a completely hand made artisan pipe as compared to Castello being a partially hand made pipe. You will find that Claudio Cavicchi makes many classic and conservative shapes that lean towards the old English styling. They are great smokers as his engineering is fantastic and a terrific value with new rusticated pipes starting at about $170.00. I have 10 Cavicchi's and not one is a bad smoker... my go to pipes for sure!

I also love English pipes but tend to shy away from them simply because of the vulcanite vs lucite bits. Ashton is my brand of choice in English pipes as the bit is a cross between acrylic and vulcanite so they don't tarnish quite as bad as rubber bits. I picked up a nice straight Ashton Pebble Grain XXX this week while in Nashville. It was made by the late William Ashton Taylor (if you can find them buy them) and I can't wait to load it up and break it in! His oil curing process is awesome and delivers a real nice nutty flavor from the 1st bowl. I currently own 6 Ashtons and they all smoke great.

Good luck in your search for the holy grail of pipes! :sunny:
 
Some of my best English pipes were made in Italy. Pipes in classic English shapes, that is. There were several Italian makers that used to make great English shapes, such as Don Carlos and Ser Jacopo, but they seemed to have moved away from them in the past few years. Too bad, especially for Don Carlos. Castello puts its own twist to the traditional shapes, some I like, others not. Lately I've turned to Ferndown for the traditional shapes, but dislike the vulcanite. A good option is to send them to LL for new stems. :)
 
Cutshot, Sorry to be in acknowledging your response. Thanks for the advice. I'll look for a Cavichi and give it a try. Castello's may be a little pricey for me at the moment. Especially since I just picked up another Upshall. An older "P" which I couldn't resist due to the price. It was on Ebay, and I didn't expect my $89 bid to win. But luckily it did. I'll keep an eye out for a Castello and may be able to find a bargain.

As to the vulcanite stems, they are a pain, but I make the sacrifice for the taste, shape and nostalgia of the English pipe. I also find vulcanite better for clenching. I try polish them with carnuba wax and wipe them after each use. Keeps them in reasonably good shape. They never develop the vulcanite taste, but they never keep a shine the way other materials do. Again, belated thanks for your response.
 
Broadly speaking, various Italian briars do have a characteristic "taste" as compared with other (often Grecian) briar that Anglo-Irish pipes have typically been made from. The lines have blurred in some cases in recent years, with American makers buying Italian briar, and so forth, and some Grecian briar being used in Italy. But in general, Italian briar accentuates the soprano register of tobacco smoked in it while Grecian mutes it but has a fuller, rounder bottom end. It's part of what goes into finding the ideal combination of a pipe with a favored tobacco that sings in it.

On the other hand, there can be pipe-&-briar combinations that are just infernal:
https://www.brothersofbriar.com/t10598-pipes-from-hell?highlight=hell

If you ever get to the point where you're dedicating several pipes to the same tobacco (which is where you can most readily notice it), in many cases, the difference in taste of the same tobacco from the same tin in an Italian and an English pipe can be instructive.

FWIW

:face:
 
I think there (or was) fine briars made in each country. These days some of the finest briars I have come out of Japan by individual artisans.
 
I have several Ser Jacopos. They smoke great. Dry as a bone and wide wide open draw. So far they're my favorite maker, but I purchased my first Castello yesterday so I'll be able to compare within the week.

My other favorite marque is Ferndown. The smoking characteristics of my Ferndowns and my Ser Jacopos couldn't be more opposed. The Ferndowns have a draw that is positively restricted compared to the Ser Jacs, and they have vulcanite instead of lucite stems. I have grown to appreciate the different qualities, even though my preference would be an open draw. The Ferndowns also have bits that are quite large. Not in a Peterson this-feels-like-an-abomination-against-God way, but still chunky. On the plus side, the Ferndowns smoke dry as a bone as well, and the shaping is classic and mathematical.

The only really great English pipes still in production are Dunhill, Ferndown, Ashton and Upshall. Oops, maybe Northern Briars too, but I haven't smoked one. And I mean no slight to Askwith or Larrysson, but they don't have the traditional, iconic appeal that the former marques do.

Between England and Italy if I had to pick one, I'd go Italy. Ser Jacopo, Castello, Radice, Il Ceppo, Il Duca, Cavicchi, Jacono, Becker, Bonfiglioli, Ardor, Viprati, Don Carlos, Caminetto, Ascorti....well, there's a lot to like there.
 
Sasquatch":r4hkml8h said:
Undead threads freak me out!
Click to expand...
You prefer the continual re-invention of the same few wheels then ? Which we've got no shortage of here, and the result of is that good information fades into oblivion (?)

:face:
CURMUDGEON
 
Yak":bu6uwets said:
Sasquatch":bu6uwets said:
Undead threads freak me out!
Click to expand...
You prefer the continual re-invention of the same few wheels then ? Which we've got no shortage of here, and the result of is that good information fades into oblivion (?)

:face:
CURMUDGEON
Click to expand...
In other words:
BoB should become a closed archive of "wisdom" posted by this, and other, older members, and the new guys should refrain from attempting the "re-invention of the same few wheels".
Wonderful.
 
From a management perspective, having newer people asking the same dozen questions every two weeks because the answers to them are buried in previous pages is f***ing stupid.

:face:
 
I don't at all think that a forum should become a "closed archive". Hell, I spend more time than most answering the same questions over and over again - enjoy doing it and helping out newbie pipesters and carvers.



But there's a limit too, and I find it odd that a thread that is almost 2 years old would be dragged up with a suggestion that the OP (who hasn't shown his head around here in that time) check something out on eBay is just... a little superfluous.
 
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